son working at school!

Parents Forum
41

<p>Hi, Jamimom:</p>

<p>I wish I have thought of that idea earlier. That way, the problem may have been solved earlier and smmothier. But now, after I talked to guidance personnel for so many times, the librarian may already be aware of the complains we are having, and obviously don't think my request warrents any concerns.</p>

<p>So, at this point, writing principal a letter seems my best choice now. </p>

<p>Thanks anyway for the suggestion, that's actually a very useful tactic I hope I can learn to use for future dealing with school .</p>

42

<p>Hi, all </p>

<p>Here is the letter I wrote for school principal, Can you please take a look, any suggestions or opinion are all very welcome. </p>

<p>I feel my conclusion is not powerful enough, but, I kind of having difficulty to make it strong yet courteous...</p>

<p>Thanks to you all for your concern.</p>

<hr>

<p>Dear Mrs. Yyyy (principal):</p>

<p>As you already know, EF( my son), goes to xxx high school for his math class in early morning, that means he will get up one hour early then regular middle school students. After math class, he would back to xxx middle school for the rest of his classes. As a result of this, each day he will have one period (about 45-50 min) free, so at the beginning of the semester, school assigned him as student aid in school's library, helping out when needed, though both EF and me as parent never got informed about this arrangement in any form, it was when EF asked librarian why he has to do all these works, then he was told that because he is assigned as a student aid.</p>

<p>However, this so called help-out was soon become an almost regular job for EF. Sometime, a whole week in a row, sometime few days in a week, it’s average at least about 2-3 times a week, the librarian would give him piles of books to stamp, papers to staple or boxes to clips for that full period.</p>

<p>I was concerned about that. So a while ago, I talked to Mrs. Xxx (guidance office personnel ), asked about this student aid issue, and I asked her since EF gets up earlier each day then regular middler schooler, he felt tired sometime, can he take a nap during his free time instead of working as student aid, and her reply was: “ The student come to school to study not to take a nap.” I think I agree with her , EF goes to school to study, not to take a nap, I would also think he doesn’t go to school to work as a librarian aid either. He already finishes his 8 school period, that extra period should be at his disposal.</p>

<p>I told EF just tell librarian that he has homework to do (which he does), or he is tired, he needs a break. EF just doesn’t feel comfortable to say ‘No’ to any school authority. I think you would agree with me, he is that kind of person. He also prefers me not to talk to school about this issue too, being afraid of school would think him doesn’t like to help out. </p>

<p>EF Talked to the guidance office several times, asked if he can get some community service hours for the work he has been doing, and the answer was always ‘No’.</p>

<p>So, I called to xxx (counselor), asked the reason why the school can’t issue any service credit to all the work he has done. Mrs. Xxx answer was: ‘Because the school never issued any credit to a student aid’. When I asked if there are any other students who have same big bulk of time during school hour and doing some work on such a regular bases, she told me that she checked and saw EF was working on his homework. I don’t know how many times she has checked. Plus, she believes that there are not much work for EF to do, only on Tuesday and Thursday that EF has a full 45 minutes to work.</p>

<p>According to my son EF, Monday and Wednesday, because school has a special program running in the morning, so he is free for full first period, Tuesday and Thursday, he is free for last period. That means Monday and Wednesday in the morning, Tuesday and Thursday in the afternoon, he stays in the library for a full school period, and he has been doing works on all those days, even on Friday, when he only stays in library for about 20 minutes, many times, the librarian still got some work for him to do. </p>

<p>When I asked Mrs. Xxx if at least, EF can finish his homework first in that period before he starts to be given some work to do, Mrs. Xxx replied: “He can do his homework when he gets home”. That makes me very uncomfortably believing that school is making him obligated to do the work instead of study. </p>

<p>After some arguments, Mrs. Xxx finally very reluctantly agreed that she will look into that issue, and she will talk to that librarian about the workload she gives to EF.</p>

<p>I asked EF virtually everyday if he was given any work to do, and very often the answer was ‘Yes’. The two weeks around Thanksgiving day and two weeks before winter break, he was working everyday for almost two weeks each in a row, when I asked what that librarian was doing then? He said, she was mostly surfing the web, doing email, or just sitting there or chatting. When I heard that I don’t feel I can withhold any longer. I know and I believe you agree with me very well, EF is not a kid who would lie.</p>

<p>So here I am, writing this long letter to you, asking for your help.</p>

<p>You have been very supportive to EF for allowing him to skip algebra I and send him to high school for his math study. I have always appreciated your understanding and accommodating towards Edward’s need of study. </p>

<p>While EF is willing to help out occasionally, I believe he goes to school mainly for study, not for any school chores that is assigned to him without his and parents consent. The extra time at school should be his free time for him to finish his homework, pursue any interests of study, or even just take a break. Especially since he goes to high school for his math, he needs extra time for his math study. I would appreciate it very much if you can take a look into it and make sure his needs get accommodated. </p>

<p>Thank you in advance for your time and effort.</p>

<p>Have a wonderful new year!</p>

43

<p>I believe the letter should be written more concisely. Also, it is better not to make accusations against the guidance counselor and especially against the librarian, as this might lead the principal to either side with her staff and against you, or to launch an investigation into the work habits of the librarian which will get you and your son caught in the middle of a nasty bureaucratic fight. I also think it is better not to raise the issue of community service credit, but to emphasize that your son needs the free time to do his homework. Remember that the principal may have approved or even suggested the arrangement whereby your son gets sent to the library to help out (though the principal may not know of the librarian's laziness).</p>

<p>I am also making corrections for grammatical errors. Here is my suggested revised version.</p>

<p>Dear Mrs. Yyyy (principal):</p>

<p>As you already know, EF( my son), goes to xxx the high school for his math class before returning to the middle school for the rest of his classes. This means he begins school one hour earlier than regular middle school students. As a result of this, each day he has one period (about 45-50 min) free. At the beginning of the semester, he was assigned as student aide to the school's library, though neither EF or I as parent was told about this arrangement in any form. It was when EF asked the librarian why he had to do all these chores that he was told that he was assigned as a student aide.</p>

<p>This so called helping-out has become an almost regular job for EF. According to my son EF, on Mondays and Wednesdays, because the school has a special program running in the morning, so he is free for the full first period; on Tuesdays and Thursdays, he is free for the last period. That means Monday and Wednesday in the morning, Tuesday and Thursday in the afternoon, he stays in the library for a full school period, and he has been assigned chores on all those days. Even on Fridays, when he only stays in the library for about 20 minutes, many times, the librarian still has some work for him to do. </p>

<p>When I asked if there are any other students who perform work on such a regular basis, Mrs. Xxx, the guidance counselor, told me that she checked and saw EF was working on his homework. I don’t know how many times she has checked. Plus, she believes that there is not much work for EF to do, only on Tuesday and Thursday that EF has a full 45 minutes to work.</p>

<p>When I asked Mrs. Xxx if at least, EF could finish his homework first before he was given some work to do, Mrs. Xxx replied: “He can do his homework when he gets home”. After some arguments, Mrs. Xxx finally very reluctantly agreed that she would look into that issue, and she would talk to that librarian about the workload she gives to EF. However,I asked EF virtually every day if he was given any work to do, and the answer was usually ‘Yes’. during the two weeks around Thanksgiving day and two weeks before winter break, he was working every day. </p>

<p>So I am writing this long letter to ask for your help. You have been very supportive to EF for allowing him to skip algebra I and send him to high school for his math study. I have always appreciated your understanding and accommodating towards Edward’s academic needs. While EF is willing to help out occasionally, I believe he should give priority to his studies and should not be compelled to "volunteer" in the library (he is not receiving any community service credit for the work he does there, either). Especially since he goes to high school for his math, he needs the extra time for his math study and other homework. I would appreciate it very much if you could take a look into EF's situation and find him a space where he can do his homework during the free periods he has as a result of beginning the schoolday earlier.</p>

44

<p>I agree with Marite - leave out the issues of napping, the librarian's work ethic, the counselor's snarky attitude, and community service credits (which would be worthless even if they gave them to him). Concentrate on making the time available to do homework. The phrase "so called helping out", "Mrs. xxx reluctantly agreed" and the quotes around "volunteer' are also potentially a little incendiary. Write as if you assume that everyone wants to do the right thing, even if you don't believe it for a minute. I'm going to propose another re-write. Try this:</p>

<p>Dear Mrs. xxx (principal),</p>

<p>I want to express my appreciation for your understanding and accommodation of EF’s academic needs. You have been very supportive of his skipping Algebra I and attending math classes at the high school. However, this has caused an unintended problem which you may not be fully aware of. As you already know, EF( my son), goes to the high school for his math class one hour before the start of the day for the regular middle school students, and then returns to the middle school for the rest of his classes. As a result of this, each day he has one period (about 45-50 min) free. At the beginning of the semester, he was assigned to spend these periods as a student aide to the school's librarian. EF did not volunteer to be a library aid, he has no particular interest in library work, and neither EF nor myself agreed to this arrangement.</p>

<p>His time in the library has become almost a regular job for EF. He is there for a full class period on Monday and Wednesday mornings and on Tuesday and Thursday afternoons, as well as 20 minutes on Fridays. He is assigned library work during the majority of that time. During the 2 weeks around Thanksgiving and the 2 weeks before winter break, he tells me that he was working every day. I do not believe there is any other student who is required to perform work for the school on such a regular basis. </p>

<p>Although EF is certainly willing to help the school community on an occasional basis, I believe he should give priority to his studies and should not be compelled to spend 4-1/2 periods a week performing work for the library. He needs the extra time for his math study and other homework. So I am writing this letter to ask for your help. I would appreciate it very much if you could take a look into EF's situation and find him a space where he can do his homework during the free periods he has as a result of beginning the school day earlier.</p>

45

<p>I agree with Texas's rewrite. It flows much better than mine and also more diplomatic.</p>

46

<p>Texas137: Your letter looks so much better then mine, I like it, get to the point yet still diplomatic. It's just I wished the prinicpal knows how her guidance office personnel is so indifferencial towards student's needs. However, that's not the purpose of my letter, as long as I can get that free time back to my son, I will be happy for now, maybe I can let her know her staff's problem somehow later ....</p>

<p>I forgot one thing in the letter, I am thinking not to cc to the county's super intendent yet, but at the end of the letter, I will add something like :</p>

<p>I would hope with your help this issue can be resolved effectively and quickly so I don't have to go to higher level for help!</p>

<p>How does that sound ?</p>

<p>Thanks for all the time and help! Really appreciate it!</p>

47

<p>hmm... let's not threaten the principal with going over her head to the supervisor at this point. As near as I can tell she is the only one who has been helpful so far and you want her in your corner. You do need to add a sentence however so that she doesn't send you back to the unhelpful guidance office. Something like:</p>

<p>I have already spoken with Ms. XXX (guidance counselor) and Ms. YYY (Librarian) about this and have been unable to get it resolved.</p>

<p>That will also accomplish the goal of letting her know there is a problem with her staff.</p>

48

<p>I agree with Tex. The "going up the line" routine you save in case you don't get cooperation early.</p>

49

<p>I agree with Texas and TheDad. If, after a week or so you do not hear from the principal or if you are not able to resolve the problem, then you can send another letter, and this time copy to the superintendent. But for the moment, write only to the principal.</p>

50

<p>Ok, advices are taken! :-) I won't mention anything about superintendent yet and the last phrase of Texas137 is good, I will add it to the letter.</p>

<p>I will be sending out the letter very soon. The school is in resess untill next week. I am thinking to sent it out on the night of this coming Sunday, so it will get into Principal's emailbox on monday and still on the top of all the emails she may get during this break.....</p>

<p>I will definitely update you about the result.</p>

<p>Thanks to you all and have a happy new year!</p>

51

<p>Amother, my take on this is not going to be popular, but this is truly my opinion, and I want you to at least look at this viewpoint. The revisions to the letters are definite improvements, but from the info you gave in your letter, I don't think you are going to have a good resolution of this situation. You have already "shaken the bushes" at the school, and the principal is going to be faced with a guidance counselor and librarian who are not going to want to cooperate. I want to make it clear that I do not believe that what has happened is right. Though it is perfectly appropriate to ask your son for occaisional assistance in the library, I don't think he should be an assigned office assistant without that situation being discussed and cleared with you and your son. However, the way you have already dealt with the situation makes it complicated. You asked if he could sleep during this time. You then seemed to feel that the situation is fine if he could only get some kind of community service credit. It is only now when both of those scenarios have been denied that you are saying that he should be studying during that time. I am not sure what kind of community service credit you wanted--if I were the librarian or GC I would have happily come up with some nonsense of community service credit to make you happy, complete with a certificate awarded to your son. Which in middle schools is worth an absolute zero but would taken care of your objections. So I don't know really what you are upset about that he is doing work the librarian should be doing, that he is tired, or whether he is not getting any "credit" for this work. It looks to me like you are trying to get your son out of doing this menial work, and that is not going to reflect well on you in this situation. Having had to fight schools for years on all kinds of issues, I can tell you that this is not going to go well. You are going to have to decide whether it is worth it to fight this battle. If your son does a good job during this period, some good will can be generated, and I am sure that if he ever wants a reference letter from this librarian,she would be happy to generate one. At this stage, this is not an important thing, but if it appears that this is such an ornerous task for the boy, I can tell that the GC could easily and honestly write on any reference form, that he is not helpful at all, spoiled and overcoddled by Mom with this situation as an example. I just do not believe this is a battle worth fighting, as you know that the first thing the principal is going to do upon receipt of this letter is call in the GC and librarian who will recount all of the things you have been doing to get your son out of this work. It would have been different if the homework issue had been the first and consistent theme here.</p>

<p>My suggestion is to leave this alone unless it is truly too much for your son having to work this extra time each day. I suggest that on some days your son may ask the librarian for study time for a test, or say that he is really so overbooked, can he just have some time to catch up, and grab some study time that way, but for you to go in there and try to change this situation may well end up in a battle that is not worth it. Of course, if you are game to fight, then bring it on.</p>

<p>Again, I want to stress that I don't think what happened here is right, and I think the librarian is taking advantage of your son. I just feel that given the sequence of events, this battle may not be one worth while. You can even lose what good will there is towards your son for the work he has done.</p>

52

<p>amother, The librarian shouldn't have to watch him for a period unless he is working for some type of credit. If they don't give him credit then he should be put into an elective class. Schools are not for napping and a healthy 8th grader should not require one on a regular basis. Many students arrive at my middle school at 7 and don't leave until after sports practice at 5. </p>

<p>If the school tries to make him work without your permission you should contact a lawyer and sue the school for violating child labor laws. </p>

<p>How active are you in school board elections and meetings? More parents need to support taxes to support public school programs, that way he might be able to take the math in his own school.</p>

53

<p>I think Jamimom raises some good points. There certainly could be some muddy water here based on your previous encounters with the guidance counselor and librarian. </p>

<p>If you think that's the case, and since your son is under-challenged in the high school math course, how about taking this approach... Treat everything that has happened so far as being perfectly okay with you. Don't criticise anything or anyone. THANK the librarian and guidance counselor for their help. But then try to introduce a new variable for next semester that would make it reasonable to try to negotiate new terms based on a new situation. Is he taking geometry at the high school? How about if you sign him up for something new. Possibilities are the EPGY Algebra II course, or for one of the problem solving classes at <a href="http://www.artofproblemsolving.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.artofproblemsolving.com&lt;/a> , or an "independent study" in computer science where he works on the training material at <a href="http://www.usaco.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.usaco.org&lt;/a>. Then you could try to argue that he needs a new arrangement because of this new academic opportunity you want him to have. Use that as a platform and work from there strictly on the issue of study time. Leave out all the other extraneous issues (unhelpful GC, lazy librarian, naps, community service credit, even low-challenge in the high school math course).</p>

54

<p>These are good suggestions. However, there is the possibility that taking on more classes may generate so much homework that your son would be overwhelmed. If that is the case, just argue that the pace of the math course at the high school is picking up in the second semester and that your S needs to use the free periods he has to do the increased homework. </p>

<p>Your son has only another semester at the middle school; it is better not to spend time arguing with the school personnel, even though I do not think that bad relationships will carry on into the high school (I wish that there were better communication between our elementary schools and the high school!). </p>

<p>Dear Mrs. xxx (principal),</p>

<p>I want to express my appreciation for your understanding and accommodation of EF’s academic needs. You have been very supportive of his skipping Algebra I and attending math classes at the high school. However, this has caused an unintended problem. As you already know, EF( my son), goes to the high school for his math class one hour before the start of the day for the regular middle school students, and then returns to the middle school for the rest of his classes. As a result of this, each day he has one period (about 45-50 min) free. At the beginning of the semester, he was assigned to spend these periods as a student aide to the school's librarian.</p>

<p>Although EF is certainly willing to help the school community on an occasional basis, I believe he should give priority to his studies. The pace of the high-school math course will be picking up during the second semester and EF anticipates having more homework. EF would like to use the free periods he has as a result of beginning the school day earlier to do the extra homework.
I would appreciate it very much if EF could be relieved from the current arrangment whereby he works in the library during his free periods and if he could be found a space where he can do his homework.</p>

55

<p>If adding on a new activity would be too much, Marite's newest suggestion sounds good. It also distills the request down even further, which is good. Slight rework on the last sentence, however:</p>

<p><i would="" appreciate="" it="" very="" much="" if="" ef="" could="" be="" relieved="" from="" the="" current="" arrangement="" whereby="" he="" works="" in="" library="" during="" his="" free="" periods,="" and="" instead="" placed="" some="" space="" where="" can="" do="" homework.=""></i></p><i would="" appreciate="" it="" very="" much="" if="" ef="" could="" be="" relieved="" from="" the="" current="" arrangement="" whereby="" he="" works="" in="" library="" during="" his="" free="" periods,="" and="" instead="" placed="" some="" space="" where="" can="" do="" homework.="">
</i>

56

<p>From the top, with some more massaging:</p>

<p>Dear Mrs. xxx (principal),</p>

<p>I want to express my appreciation for your understanding and accommodation of EF’s academic needs. You have been very supportive of his skipping Algebra I and attending math classes at the high school. As you already know, EF( my son), goes to the high school for his math class one hour before the start of the day for the regular middle school students, and then returns to the middle school for the rest of his classes. As a result of this, each day he has one period (about 45-50 min) free. At the beginning of the school year, he was assigned to spend these periods as a student aide to the school's librarian. I appreciate her willingness to allow him to be in the library, and I hope that his work there has been helpful.</p>

<p>The pace of the high-school math course will be picking up during the second semester and EF anticipates having more homework than he can reasonably finish in the evenings. Although EF is certainly willing to help the school community with occasional volunteer work, I believe he should give priority to his studies. EF would like to use the free periods he has as a result of beginning the school day earlier to do the extra homework.</p>

<p>I would appreciate it very much if EF could be relieved from the current arrangement whereby he works in the library during his free periods, and instead be placed in some space where he can do his homework.</p>

57

<p>Hi, All:</p>

<p>Thanks for all the advices.</p>

<p>Jamimom is right; I did have the same concern before. </p>

<p>EF has been working hard to try to get into the local magnet high school program, which requires test and three teachers recommendation letters, while EF is sure the teacher’s recommendation letter should be very good at least, I don’t want to upset the school so much that they do something negatively about EF’s application to that program ( all the recommendation letters goes through the guidance office ). That’s why I asked for a nap time instead of working, hoping to win their sympathy for a kid working so hard…….which now I realize was so stupid……..</p>

<p>About the community service credit, it’s required to have certain amount of hours ( 120 ?) to graduate from high school here in this area. The credit hours can be earned by doing some volunteer works in places like public library etc……..It’s common for student to earn some credits starting from elementary school, my D earned some hours by volunteer to tutor math for other students about one hour each week at her elementary school ( school send paper and I signed ). That’s where my second approach comes from, which turned out to be unsuccessful ……….</p>

<p>I am so glad this time I came here first, otherwise I may really already messed up something.</p>

<p>Jamimom’s concerns is right, though the teacher’s recommendation letters should already be out, but the decision won’t be out until the end of March…….between now and then, the school does have the time to say anything negatively if they want……</p>

<p>Here is my new plan now, I will talk to my son to convince him that it’s OK to set his study as first priority for now ( while he wants to do his study, he feel a little guilty for not wanting to do community service, though it’s assigned ), and next time the librarian gives him any work to do, just politely tell her that he has a lot of homework to do, and he prefers to do homework first……….and I will see how it goes, if it doesn’t work, then I will use texas137’s latest version to talk to the principal…….</p>

<p>I know I have said this many times, I still want to say it again and again, thank you so much for all your cares, concerns and opinions……although I am still not sure as to how to best handle this issue, I am feeling so much comforted by knowing there are a lot of parents out there who understands me and willing to offer help……so thanks for your time and all those thoughts…….</p>

<p>If only the school personnel were so care……</p>

58

<p>Jamimom, it’s not like I enjoy the fighting. But I am feeling if I don't do anything about it, it's going to be a big waste of EF's time. EF started relatively late on math competition, while many other students got coached for Mathcount, AMC etc since 6th grade, he just started this year and has no coach at school, This year's Mathcount is his last chance, he is also aiming at AMC10, mathcamp, etc, he needs as much time as he can get to practice his math or other studies.......he is having extra classes ( music, sport, math and chinese) outside of school, so that one hour of free time is precious to him, I really can't afford to just let it go...........he already feels waste a lot of time during the day in the class, staring at the blackboard, learning nothing, waiting time to pass by quickly, so that one hour of time is very precious for him…….that’s why at least for now, I think I will continue to find a way to solve that problem…..</p>

<p>However, it doesn’t mean I appreciate your opinion less in any way, I am very grateful. Thanks!</p>

59

<p>amother:</p>

<p>About community service, what he does in middle school will not count in his college application. In fact, some colleges do not even look at 9th grade!
For recommendations, EF should at least ask one from the high school math teacher.
I am a bit leery of EF telling the librarian that he needs to stdy instead of helping her without having the support of the GC and the principal. Suppose she says that he is in the library to help her out? Suppose that she tells him that if he is not there to help, he should get out?
Personally, I think that the last version of the letter which Texas and I put together should go to the principal. It is conciliatory, does not put the blame on anyone and yet seeks a different arrangement. Come to think of it, with the math competitions coming, EF will be busier in the spring than he has been, so the argument is not a spurrious one.</p>

60

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<p>I agree that this is the approach to take. And Mathcounts gives you a perfect opening. That's the "new variable" you need to change the current arrangement. Instead of asking for time for him to do general homework, possibly in the library, ask for the time specifically for him to work on Mathcounts. (for the glory of the school, of course!) See if the Mathcounts coach would allow him to spend the time working quietly in the back of his/her classroom. Even if he ends up working on Mathcounts in the library, it would at least break the cycle of expecting him to do library work. He can probably just quietly work on whatever he wants to after the math competitions are over. So, here's the newest proposal:</p>

<p>Dear Mrs. Principal, (cc guidance counselor, librarian, and Mathcounts coach)</p>

<p>I want to express my appreciation for your understanding and accommodation of EF’s academic needs. You have been very supportive of his skipping Algebra I and attending math classes at the high school. As you already know, EF( my son), goes to the high school for his math class one hour before the start of the day for the regular middle school students, and then returns to the middle school for the rest of his classes. As a result of this, each day he has one period (about 45-50 min) free. At the beginning of the school year, he was assigned to spend these periods as a student aide to the school's librarian. I appreciate her willingness to allow him to be in the library, and I hope that his work there has been helpful.</p>

<p>EF is very committed to doing well at the Mathcounts and AMC-10 competitions coming up in Feb. If the Mathcounts team qualifies for State or he qualifies for the AIME exam, that will extend the period he is competing until March. The pace of the high-school math course will also be picking up during the second semester. EF anticipates having more math work to do than he can reasonably finish in the evenings. Although EF is certainly willing to help the school community with volunteer work, he would like to give priority to working on math in those free periods next semester. I would appreciate it very much if EF could be relieved from the current arrangement whereby he works in the library during his free periods, and instead be placed in some space where he can work on math.</p>