<p>Dreamer11 - well said. NCDad - thank you for sharing and best of luck to you and your family during the next eight days and in the weeks and months to come.</p>
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<p>Amen to that! I’m really not sure if this was the right sentence or not. But I am relieved that there was no tragedy. And it sounds like this kid will get the right attention to ensure minimal risk of future drinking problem. More cyber hugs to the stressed parents.</p>
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<p>That’s not at all analogous to “Minority Report”. </p>
<p>“Minority Report” was a movie about punishing people before a crime took place, based on an ESP-like ability to see the future. If NCDad’s son had been arrested on his way to the prom, based on information that he was planning to drink, and therefore was likely to later on drive drunk – that would be a Minority Report-type situation.</p>
<p>The criminal justice system punishes unlawful ACTS–some of those ACTS also have consequences in which there is injury and harm (such as manslaughter); some of those ACTS are punished without regard to whether anyone was harmed (such as brandishing a weapon, or unlawful possession). </p>
<p>The crime that NCDad’s son committed was getting behind the wheel of a car after drinking, with a BAC in excess of a specified amount. That crime was essentially completed when the son turned the ignition key, started the motor, put the car into gear, and pulled out into the street. </p>
<p>If NCDad’s son had in fact injured or killed anyone, he would be facing a lot more than 10 days in jail. Judges definitely do take into account the level of harm when imposing a sentence. Then again, if someone had been killed, he probably would also have been charged with a more serious crime such as vehicular manslaughter, carrying even more serious penalties.</p>
<p>The undertone I get in this thread (NOT from NCDad, but from many others) is that middle class kids from good homes should not be jailed for doing “stupid stuff” – but that sentiment does not seem to apply at all to poor kids who don’t have the benefit of a comfortable home life. </p>
<p>I can assure you that the vast majority of arrests are for “stupid stuff” that is usually unplanned. People get drunk and do all sorts of stupid stuff. People get angry and do all sorts of stupid stuff. </p>
<p>The criminal law is what it is. It criminalizes many actions simply because the acts are seen as inherently dangerous and risky, and it makes sense for society to punish the act rather than wait around until someone actually gets hurt. That is, better that hundreds of drunk drivers who don’t injure anyone serve short mandatory jail sentences, and are deterred from ever driving drunk again – than having more drunk drivers on the road, increasing the odds that some of those drivers will injure others. </p>
<p>There should not be one set of rules that apply to kids from well-off families and another that applies to the underclass. As a practical matter, there are indeed two sets of rules – the poor kids are routinely locked up for offenses that are shrugged off as adolescent hijinks when they are committed by kids from privileged families. But it should not be that way. </p>
<p>I’m sorry that the idea of seeing your kids in jail scares many of you. Maybe it would be a good idea for middle & upper class parents to be a little more proactive in making sure that their kids understand that they are not immune from legal consequences and punishment. </p>
<p>Maybe if more middle & upper class kids were sent to jail for “stupid stuff”, our society would begin to pay more attention to jail conditions and show some compassion for the poor, lower class kids who are regularly cycled through the system.</p>
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Say whaaat??? Please point to any posts that support this thinking.</p>
<p>calmom - we would give your kid same kind of sympathy under similar circumstance, so there is no bias in social economic class.</p>
<p>Calmom- As a parent who is familiar with emotional growth programs, struggling teens and who has met and heard the stories of many families who have dealt with “issues” with their teens, I would love to know how you think parents can be more “proactive” in making sure their kids know they are not immune from legal consequences. I can assure you that most of the kids I met understood this,and the parents were not negligent in attempting to instill values and a sense of responsibility in their kids. The problem is that rash decisions are made, and the kids think “nothing will happen” and “I won’t get caught”. Teens are invincible.</p>
<p>Right, oldfort. because Calmom’s kid is also from a white middle class family with college educated parents.</p>
<p>I think her comments are spot on and presented in a warm and sympathetic yet realistic way.</p>
<p>The kind of sympathy extended to NCdad’s kid which is right and warranted, in the world does not very often go to kids from a different world. It’s not spoken here like that, it’s more that there is a sense that THIS KID, who could be mine or yours or ours, should not go to jail (not by everyone, but the sentiment has been repeated a number of times.) There is an imbalance in this country, and not acknowledging it perpetuates it.</p>
<p>garland, I didn’t realize that, I couldn’t really tell from her posts. But that’s ok, I would have extended the same sympathy.</p>
<p>She said there was an undertone/imbalance in this thread. Could someone please point it out because I simply do not see it. And while yes, calmom is well educated, if memory serves me, she has described her/her children’s lifestyle as that of the struggle of a divorced/single parent who gave up a professional career to work in a low paying non-profit type job and for whom the term “middle class” might not apply.</p>
<p>Well, I personally plead not guilty to only caring about the middle class.</p>
<p>As I said up thread, far too many people are incarcerated in this country. And if course they are much more likely to be from poorer families. (Our ridiculous drug laws have a lot to do with it. This is well-documented.)</p>
<p>I don’t really see it in this thread.</p>
<p>Calmom has done us all a service in educating us to some aspects of law we don’t know - and shared some of her experience, as an attorney. If someone starts pointing to which poster said what, someone else will just jump in that direction. Maybe let’s not go there. We all hope for a good outcome for OP’s son, going forward.</p>
<p>While legal references are helpful from a former attorney, that has nada to do with the baseless classism accusations made in the second 1/2 of post 703.</p>
<p>I don’t think Calmom is saying anyone said anything derogative about the members of the "underclasses. "</p>
<p>We haven’t discussed those cases at all. they’re less likely to be people whose parents will tell us about them here on CC. We won’t know about their aspirations, their parents’ anguish, their diminished futures.</p>
<p>We won’t know them as individuals.</p>
<p>we won’t know them.</p>
<p>We’re good people who would care if they had substance to us, but as it stands, they’ll mostly get longer sentences and harsher punishment than our kids will, and we’ll only know the statistics, not the individuals.</p>
<p>People as a whole respond better to the individual, not the faceless statistic.</p>
<p>That doesn’t have to be true. But most often, it is.</p>
<p>Thank you, calmom, for your comments. I agree.</p>
<p>The OP’s boy will be in jail with people who have committed crimes – which is exactly what he has done. Who’s to say that those inmates he’s scared of aren’t equally scared? Jail is undoubtedly awful, but it’s not prison, which is where the most hardcore convicted criminals are.</p>
<p>That being said, my heart goes out to ANY parent who has done his/her best but whose child commits a crime, whatever it is. That parent might be a single mother from an impoverished area or a wealthy parent with a loving spouse. That parent might even have a child who has raped, assaulted, or murdered someone. I can totally think the child needs to go to jail, even prison, but still have compassion for the parent(s). I feel bad for the OP, who seems like a genuinely decent human being who is wracked with pain about his son’s behavior and current situation.</p>
<p>My hope is that the son will learn his lesson and will turn his life around, including never touching alcohol again. I also hope that, with a new perspective and new behavior, he can go forward and make a positive impact on the world.</p>
<p>I posted earlier on this. I don’t think that there have been comments indicating a lack of sympathy, but there have been comments indicating surprise that juveniles are ever sent to adult prisons and jails. I don’t want to sound critical, but I found that surprise shocking. Prosecuting juveniles as adults and sending them to adult facilities has become widespread over the past two decades. It says something about our society that many of us remain thoroughly insulated from this reality. </p>
<p>I wrote earlier that I hope that sympathy for NCDad’s son on this thread might translate into sympathy for other people’s children, especially those who don’t look like “us” (regardless of who we are). I hope that we do not have to see more of “our” children in adult facilities to help us get it, though calmom my be right that this is what it will take.</p>
<p>There has been absolutely no mention or consideration of income, race or any other such thing. These are parents with sympathy for anr parent. Most posters here agree there should be consequences up to and including possible time in jail. That does not keep us from mourning with, and having sympathy for this kid’s dad. It also doesn’t keep us from remembering that he is, in fact, a kid. And it would be the same for any kid and dad in similar circumstances.</p>
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<p>Let’s not confuse issues. I drink socially, my adult offspring drink socially – and everything we do is perfectly legal after age 21. But we don’t drink & drive. </p>
<p>Obviously OP’s son is also underage, so he shouldn’t be drinking at all. But “never touching alcohol” again is not really the lesson to be learned.</p>
<p>The problem in my mind is that if the focus is on the alcohol problem, then you can have a situation where a person swears off drinking, then falls off the wagon – and there they are driving again – because they haven’t anticipated or planned for how they will get home. </p>
<p>Those of us who do drink responsibility think about the transportation arrangements in advance. Maybe we identify a designated driver in our group, or we choose to take public transportation and leave our cars at home, or we plan to take a cab and budget accordingly.</p>
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<p>I’m sure we’ve all heard that juveniles are sometimes prosecuted as adults. However, it is usually for more serious crimes, crimes involving the loss of life and limb, not just the possibility of such a loss.</p>
<p>I have no shame in saying I am very sympathetic to the OP and his son. I think jail time in an adult prison is excessively punitive. I posted early in this thread, and my concern was that the state of NC was treating a minor as an adult. I said that in my opinion, the transfer of a juvenile to an adult system should be reserved for those cases of truly heinous crimes. I do not believe a DUI warrants bringing a 17 year-old high school junior into the adult court system or the adult penal system.</p>
<p>Our justice system is no longer judicious. Mandatory sentencing does not allow a judge to exercise wisdom or good sense. </p>
<p>When I was in high school two guys from our school got caught drag racing. They were going at high speed on a major thoroughfare. There was an accident causing property damage, but no personal injury. Just like a DUI violation, they endangered themselves, their passengers and everyone who shared the roads with them that night. Just like the OP’s son, they were very lucky no one was hurt. The punishment they received from a juvenile judge was community service. They spent weeks of their summer working at a rehabilitation facility for patients with head and spinal trauma. They fed patients, they transported patients to their therapies, and they cleaned rooms and mopped floors. They provided a genuine service to the community and the same time they saw firsthand the devastating results an accident could have. They came to know and care about the patients who could no longer live a normal life and they saw the shattering grief of the patient’s family members and friends. The punishment had a major impact on the two and at the same time, it served the community. That seems wiser than 10 days in jail eating, sleeping and watching TV. My guess is that the $1000 fine the OP’s son received will only cover the costs of incarceration. </p>
<p>Also, both of the drag racers graduated from college, married, had careers and kids. One of them is now a doctor at a major teaching hospital. Lucky for them they made their mistake in a more merciful time and in a court system where the records were sealed or expunged. They were young, they did something stupid, they were punished, the punishment fit the crime and it taught them a lesson. At the same time, they were able to serve the community and in some way make things right. They went on to be successful and productive members of our society, but luckily, they never had to worry about the stigma of an adult conviction and sentence.</p>
<p>I think both the OP’s son and the state of NC would have been better served if the sentence had been similar perhaps adding a requirement to take both a driver safety course and an alcohol education course.</p>
<p>And Calmom, I’d feel the same if the kid was rich or poor, black or white, college bound or not.</p>
<p>Certainly a lot of interesting perspectives here. I’ve never really considered the class perspective here, but the fact that our family is upper-middle class and that we live in a low-crime area certainly made this more of a shock to our system–we don’t really know anyone who’s been to jail before and that very possibly wouldn’t be the case if we lived in a low-income, inner city area.</p>
<p>On the other hand living where we do has certainly affected what our son is going through in jail. Because our county is on the small side, there’s just one jail, which means everyone–men, women, teenagers, violent criminals, etc.–is under the same roof, in different wings. He’s not in with murderers, because there aren’t any murderers currently awaiting trial in our county.</p>
<p>We had the chance to visit him today and he’s doing OK. Thursdays are visitation days for his cell block so we’ll see him again the day before he’s released. He’s in a lower-security “6/18” block–6 hours in a common room and 18 hours in his cell, which he’s sharing with a 20-year-old also in for DUI.</p>
<p>It’s a pretty bad situation–the place is entirely depressing–but we took some solace in the fact that after 2 days he seems more bored than scared. 8 days to go. We’re hanging in there.</p>