Sorority bullying?

Parents Forum
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<p>ellebud: your descriptions of recruitment and the week prior to it our right on target for major universities with large greek systems. I work for a national fraternity for women and can assure everyone that 200 members is now the norm at many schools in the south and midwest.</p>

<p>If the OP’s daughter truly does believe she was hazed, she can call 1-888-NOT-HAZE. It is a hazing hotline funded by NPC and IFC groups and monitored by a law firm. The moderators will contact the national headquarters of her daughter’s sorority to begin an investigation.</p>

<p>Poured many a glass of water in my time as an advisor and National Officer, washed dishes, polished silver, blown up balloons–and enjoyed the company of college women and alumnae. Girl time is great when you’re the mother of boys!</p>

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<p>My daughter is at Cornell, their recruitment is fairly low key relative to some southern schools, and I would say it is probably similar to NU. Yes, they practice their rotation and conversation. They know who they want from the first round, and they know those girls’ ECs, friends, special interests, so they would have appropriate people to talk to those girls. The whole thing is as well rehearsed as a ballet recital. It is a pain when girls do not show up on time to help with house cleaning, decorating, rehearse skit and not knowing where to stand. D1 has worked every year during the week before rush for 15 hours a day. Yes, it bothers them when some girls try not to do their fair share.</p>

<p>At the same time, I have never heard of D1 talk about shunning someone or punishing someone because they were not working as hard. I don’t think their national chapter would allow them to do that. Now, I have heard D1 complain once about being placed near the kitchen instead of closer to the front door.</p>

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<p>To all those that doubt my authenticity, I feel sorry for you. You belong in the same category as the “sisters” tormenting my D. Where do you get off making up stuff about me and my D? Be ashamed, and look hard at yourself in the mirror. I wrote this because I live overseas (in the Mideast, not Europe, but please don’t assume anything from that, either!), and I wrote out of desperation, because, face it, I hardly have anyone to talk to about this subject over here in the desert. Like the “sisters,” you assume the worst and make up scenarios in your head. I gave you the facts as I know them, and from reading the posts, I appreciate A LOT of what was written, and I have taken it to heart. Thank you from most of you posters. As to the comment that I didn’t reply right away. It hasn’t been 24 hours since I wrote that post, and to be honest, I do have a life, and I do have to sleep during that time! Give me a break! My original question was whether I was too sensitive about my D’s treatment. I believe I am now clear on that. I have told her my feelings, but in the end it is her decision. Again, thanks to all the posters that gave me their opinions and advice as THAT is what I truly needed.</p>

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<p>I went to a school with a small Greek system (around 2% of the student body), and we had a week long, 9-7-ish prep week in the summer for recruitment. Recruitment, even in my small, laid back Greek system, took a lot of prep, including, yes, preparation for talking to girls going through recruitment (PNMs). There are rules prohibiting “hot boxing” for example (more than two members talking to one PNM at a given time) and the sorority can be fined if these are broken. There’s also a lot of prep on what–and what not–to talk about (e.g., don’t talk about other sororities, don’t ask someone where they got their clothes because you might put them in an uncomfortable position, don’t talk about the fraternities or at least don’t talk about them very much, how to respond to a negative question, etc). Also, some chapters pair members up for house tours and the like and have them practice giving tours toghether, which requires, well, being there. You could get out of days of this prep week with a “legitimate” excuse. For example, I missed some events for work orientations and academic meetings. I told the recruitment chair, and it was fine. Like others have said, I’d be shocked if the OP’s D didn’t know FAR an advance that she needed to be back a week early, and even if there were reasons (finances, etc) she couldn’t come back in time, her sorority almost certainly has a process for handling it.</p>

<p>Yes, if the OP’s D is truly being made to “sit in the basement and not talk to anyone” than that is NOT okay. However, I’m wondering if the situation is something more like “Because you weren’t here at prep week, we weren’t able to assign you to a practice group and it would be hard for us to reconfigure all the groups on short notice. Would you mind handling the water instead?” A friend of mine who transferred over the summer to a different university and affiliated with their chapter was put on “kitchen duty” during recruitment that fall because she didn’t really know enough about that particular chapter to recruit there. She was fine with it. Personally, I never cared for formal recruitment and so was perfectly happy to be assigned to an “administrative role” in it my junior year. Gossip has it (and sadly, it is probably true in some chapters :() that “kitchen duty” and other administrative roles are “less desirable,” but the other side of the coin is that there are some sorority members who just don’t like formal recruitment (like me, for one) or who aren’t prepared to recruit for one reason or another.</p>

<p>My sorority wasn’t perfect, and admittedly, there were times when some of the members or decisions frustrated me or hurt my feelings, but there was always a recourse for talking to the alumni or officers (confidentially) about any concerns. And you know what? Often that really helped clear things up on both sides. I’d suggest the OP’s D does something like this and gets more of the story as well as discusses her own side of it. If the chapter still seems bullying or cruel, then her D should drop (no one should have to put up with mistreatment). I think she should make sure both she and the sorority have a clear sense of each other’s stories, though. If she still feels victimized, she can certainly and SHOULD report or leave, but it seems to me like there could potentially be some misunderstanding/miscommunication here, and if so, that would be a shame for both the D and the other members.</p>

<p>Also, if the D is really being shunned that is NOT okay and should be reported. However, it seems unlikely that the D would be the only person in the basement–IME, there are always tons of alums and some activities helping. My best recruitments memories are easily chatting with my active friends while in an “administrative role.”</p>

<p>To reiterate: If the D TRULY does feel like she’s being bullied or abused, please do REPORT it. But if she’s comfortable with it (and ONLY if she is), recourse through the chapter might be a good first step to clear up potential misunderstandings. </p>

<p>Contrary to CC stereotype, a vast majority of sorority women are NOT evil “mean girls.”</p>

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<p>Well dudette, some of the posts certainly made me think about the “sisterhood” coming out of sororities. Your daughter is being bullied. As I noted in a post elsewhere, as long as nobody stands up, bullies will continue to think they are hip, fun and powerful. Make sure your daughter knows it is not right to be treated that way. When you notice someone bullying, even a dear one, interfere. Friends should tell friends, parents tell their children, teachers observing, bullies should be told their behavior is hurtful and unacceptable.</p>

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<p>Several years ago, so the precise details are fuzzy, DD rushed in the spring and lived out of the sorority house. Spring rush is lower intensity than fall rush. DD was out of the country for the summer and did not find out about the ‘required’ early return until after her ticket was purchased.</p>

<p>Yes, it is a low key Greek school, not like USC, etc. Yes, I am sure DD did not lie, DD is rather intensely organised about travel plans. I was also involved in some sort of financial issue that arose where I did see that their communication was sub par, it was something I paid on her behalf and it did not get credited to her account. I had to be involved to prove it was paid.</p>

<p>After the payment question it became apparently that even sorority officers make mistakes. It’s not their first priority, they are usually graduating seniors with classes and other activities.</p>

<p>I am sure the girls in the house simply understood the rush early return requirements, but it had not been communicated in writing. As an athlete for the school, DD did miss some events for games & practices. If she missed the late spring meeting where it was mentioned, that missed meeting had to be signed off, permitted, and made up some how. But no one gave her the info she missed and she did not know to ask.</p>

<p>So, it could happen. </p>

<p>The Greek culture on each campus is different, we can each only judge the circumstances based on our own experiences.</p>

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<p>^^^I’m sorry. Two posts both with totally different conclusions with the same facts. Psch reiterated what many of us said: Your daughter probably (like 98% sure) knew when she had to show up. If she was unable to show up there was recourse called communication. Fines are regularly assessed if you don’t show up and you don’t give a reason. The parents may very well be upset about the fines. The daughter is probably very upset about the assessments and frankly the daughter may have a need to explain it. If you don’t show up to recruitment camp you can’t play an active role in recruitment. Yes, you may have to work in the kitchen. The girl may not have the fun part. And, we all said to a person, that if what your daughter says happened or if she feels that she is being hazed she must talk and report it. And then let Panhellenic and the University handle it. </p>

<p>BUT we don’t know what the sorority’s take is on what may or may not have happened. This is formal and frills recruitment as described. It is very work intensive. And if you don’t see it close up it’s really hard to understand. But I can say during recruitment proper there is no way a girl could be sent down to a cellar and made to stay there. Logistically this doesn’t work. There are parents around. There are alums around. NO adults would permit that kind of punishment. This doesn’t add up. Nowadays emails are sent three and four times a week. Confirming emails are required. The emails about clothes for recruitment could have killed several saplings if this had been snail mail.</p>

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<p>Well, honestly, ellebud, our mutual acquaintance is enjoying her new pledge sisters at USC very much but when her mother (also a USC alum) visited for Presents, she found the whole thing a little much in terms of excessive focus on clothes and money, and her (mother’s) descriptions really sound very different from my NU experience. FWIW.</p>

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<p>psych_, thank you for your insights about recruitment.<br>
I had such a positive Greek experience, and I always feel frustrated when posters who did not participate (or are still in HS!) base their thinking on TV and movies.</p>

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<p>I never belonged to a sorority that would have enough “power” to tell me to go down to a cellar and stay there by myself at ANY time – recruitment or not-recruitment, parents / alums there or no parents / alums there. The whole concept of telling someone to go sit in a corner, like a 2 yo in a timeout, is ludicrous. I don’t care HOW late someone was for their rush duties.</p>

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<p>Sorry but it isn’t just on TVs and movies. As a total outsider, I’m left with a very bad feeling about sororities after reading this thread and other posts on CC (and oddly from those so in the know about them, the simplistic defensiveness, along with all the inane BS details they think are oh so important---- sorry, I just see way too much valuable collective effort being wasted on something completely pointless and superficial, along with a lot of petty drama.</p>

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<p>I feel like I’m on a different planet or something. PEOPLE ARE SOMETIMES KILLED BY HAZING. THEY DIE. Why the hell is being made to sit in a corner so hard to believe? I can’t help but think that some of you are defending Greek life as a knee-jerk reaction, not because of the veracity of the OP’s scenario.</p>

<p>Nobody is forced to drink massive quantities of alcohol when rushing. They can walk away from it at any time. And yet some do it anyway, and a few die. How can you say that being made to sit in the corner of a basement is completely unbelievable? How is it less believable than people actually dying in the name of Greek life conformity?</p>

<p>If I’m missing something, educate me, but don’t tell me that people going along with stupid ideas in the name of “sisterhood” is unbelievable. Groups of all kinds require all kinds of stupid things of their members and potential members, and many members and potential members go along with it. If your fraternity or sorority didn’t make its members do stupid things, then good for you, but isn’t it terribly naive to think that these things never happen?</p>

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<p>My D had a wonderful 4 year experience in her sorority. Yeah. She paid some fines, did kitchen and clean-up duties for “transgressions”, but…I would loved to have been a fly on the wall when somebody told her to sit in a corner and not talk. lol I mean, I’d have paid money to see what happened next. ;)</p>

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<p>Mantori–</p>

<p>In post #50, I gave you my reasoning for not believing THIS particular story.</p>

<p>Nobody is arguing that hazing has been a problem for certain places at certain times. Just, the adult involvement in sorrority recruitment, in particular, just makes the part about being sat in a basement alone highly suspect. </p>

<p>My D sometimes takes fines on purpose because she’s too busy to do everything. She knows when she is doing this, se la vie. As for chores, they do more chores in sorrorities anyway, not even as a punishment, than they do in dorms where it’s all taken care of. I don’t even think that’s worth talking about, personally.</p>

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<p>Well, I think it has to do with campus cultures in which it’s treated super seriously vs campus cultures at which it’s just hey, a way for friends to get together and do some bonding activities, and yes, there are obligations, but no different from being part of a sports team and showing up to practice or the newspaper and meeting deadlines. </p>

<p>No argument from me, m-s, that “requiring someone to sit in a corner” is ludicrous. I don’t know why you’d even want a “non-compliant” person (who skips rush, etc.) to be punished. Wouldn’t you (if you were the president of such an organization) rather just say “Hey, you clearly don’t want to be a member here, so why don’t we part ways amicably and go on our separate ways”?</p>

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<p>Sorry, had to fix that.</p>

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<p>I was not in a sorority, but my impression has always been that the hazing only takes place well out of sight of any adults, particularly alums. Also can’t imagine it in this scenario unless alums play no part in recruitment.</p>

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<p>I would like you to please be my spellchecker, now. I have a particular issue with the word their. :)</p>

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<p>My daughter’s rush was at the end of the second week of school and she had to be back for practice two weeks before school started (4 weeks before the start of rush). Which meant her missing a week or two of work and our family vacation. But, she knew it was mandatory and she knew she would be fined if she didn’t go. And we knew in the spring that this would be the case. According to my daughter practice was every day and exhausting. I am not saying what they did was right, but I can see how the other 200 girls would be upset if they had to give up fun things that they wanted to do to be there and others got to skip out on it.</p>

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<p>I’ve worked at several universities with large Greek systems . . . sadly, in my experience, there are sororities full of Mean Girls. Maybe not mean to each other (although I sometimes find that hard to believe) but mean to those they deem not good enough.</p>

<p>I do not condemn, wholesale, the Greek system. I have friends and relatives, including 2 of my children, who have had good experiences with them. But generally, speaking as a college faculty member and administrator, for the overall health of the institution and its students, I’m not a fan.</p>

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<p>Parents and alums present for rush? Practicing skits and songs? Running vacuum cleaners and washing dishes? A week of pre-rush boot camp?</p>

<p>Wow.</p>

<p>I was around at rush for a couple of years at one fraternity decades ago. (Once I was actually the cook, too.) My S is currently rush co-chair at his house. In neither case was it ANYTHING like this! I guess it’s either a guy vs girl thing, or regional.</p>

<p>Believe me, my S’s house could definitely use significant cleaning. Rumor has it that it is vacuumed twice a year whether it needs it or not. :smiley: I don’t think that they have heard of the concept of chores. Seriously, the place is a pit. It always amazes me that such nice, polite, well-spoken young men emerge from it.</p>