Sorority bullying?

Parents Forum
121

<p>To me the issue is fairly simple. There is a line. Maybe it’s in a different place for different well-adjusted kids, and maybe the line changes based on the value the kid chooses to place on the activity…but still, there’s a line. </p>

<p>The kid has absolutely got to know there’s a line. That’s our job, and hopefully one we’ve taken care of before they head to college. If anyone, any organization, any official, anywhere , crosses that line …vote with your feet. Just walk away. Getthehellouttathere.</p>

<p>I don’t see why a sorority would be any different than an abusive coach or prof or boyfriend or roomie. There is always a line. IMO, if you teach your kids that then they’ll be fine. But, of course, that’s JMO.</p>

122

<p>Cleaning houses, whether yours or someone elses, should not be a problem for anyone. I can’t even see what people are taking issue with that. It’s not “hazing”, think of it as community service or something. Someone has to clean, it may as well be pledges. If you think it’s demeaning I think you need to ask yourself why…is cleaning someone elses home beneath you? No, even if you think it is.</p>

123

<p>Well, at my daughter’s sorority they all go over and help clean the house to get ready for important events such as Parents Weekend or Founders Day. Do they clean bedrooms? No. But they certainly help with the common areas that they all enjoy for meetings and the like. </p>

<p>psych has had some very good posts, I think. And curm is right about where the line is for each individual.</p>

124

<p>Who lives at the sorority house? Some random people off the street? </p>

<p>My daughter´s sorority house pays for their cleaning service, and that came out of our pocket when she lived there.</p>

<p>I think people on this board should have some experience (personal or from their kids) before voicing such a strong opinion. </p>

<p>I live in a third world country now. My parents told me how dangerous the place is, and how a place is not livable. They came to visit for a week and I couldn´t get rid of them.</p>

<p>For your kid´s sake, try to keep an open mind.</p>

125

<p>Heyalb, if I had missed the prep work for a meeting, I would not be able to talk to a client. This active missed her prep work and she apparently wasn’t allowed to talk to the Potential New Members. Boo-Hoo. And if she had to stay out of sight as well, I don’t really have a problem with that either. Where else was she supposed to be? Not messing up the rush skits, not having fun with the sisters who bothered to show up and do their jobs. She had to stay at the house to help between the parties rather than continue to do her duties. she should have poured the water with a smile. Recruiting is a serious thing at companies and in some sororities. I wouldn’t let the slacker give the tour at my company and I wouldn’t let the slacker represent the sorority as a whole either. Listen to the posters that are Greek. This original story doesn’t add up.</p>

126

<p>I agree with Curmudgeon at post 121 above, that the individual has to decide where the line is. However, whether or not the original post is 100% true (and btw, does it have to be for advice to be given based on the scenario presented?), everyone should be alert for hazing behavior. DON’T JUST LISTEN TO GREEK members, since much of the hazing was done by Greeks. I said in my post on the first page of this thread, that I generally find these organizations worthwhile, but there always are exceptions. It is laughable that someone can post that there were no mean greeks on their campus. Mean is found among us all, and it is usually the do-ee not the do-er who should be the judge.</p>

<p>In the long list of hazing activities cited in the Cornell website that I linked on page one, I found a hazing activity that I was familiar with. My close friend was taken to a park in a laundry bag, in the trunk of a car and left miles from campus. Each of the girls got a dime to try to call for a ride. I was called, but I couldn’t borrow a car to go get them. They did get a ride and returned safely to campus. I would never have joined that organization, but believe it or not she did. Now I am sure that some on this board will say my friend lied, or that I did ,or that those who reported this type of incident to Cornell lied, or what-ev-er. Believe whoever you want to believe. Do whatever you want with the information.</p>

<p>FWIW, based on the lack of follow up posts, I am not convinced that the OP was serious, but if even one person is saved from a bad situation, I will have found my time worthwhile on this thread. No one needs to be saved from a good situation.</p>

127

<p>MizzBee, I’m sorry, but one student making another student “sit in a corner” and “not speak to anybody” (OP’s original words, not mine, not yours) is demeaning and abusive. The OP did not use the words you used above (“stay out of sight”). The OP used the words “sit in a corner”.</p>

<p>Everybody chipping in to clean a house is fine…not demeaning whatsoever.</p>

<p>Everybody chipping in to make others (and themselves) comfortable at a party is fine…not demeaning whatsoever.</p>

<p>But one student, demanding that another student, sit in a corner, is outrageous. That’s my line, and that’s my opinion. If you feel that’s appropriate, more power to ya. But more importantly, more power to whomever is at the demeaning end of it.</p>

128

<p>“Sit in a corner” and “not speak to anyone” may have been the OP’s words. But were they the same words uttered by the sorority representatives, then passed down verbatim by the D to the OP (mother) to the CC community? It makes a difference whether this is what was said/written, or whether this was the D’s or mother’s interpretation of how/why daughter wasn’t able to participate in skits, formal conversations, etc.</p>

<p>This situation can be spun two different ways:

  1. A girl is being fined and hazed via orders to “sit in a corner” in the basement and “not speak to anyone” because she could not afford to change an expensive overseas airline ticket to get back to school in time to help prepare for recruitment; or
  2. Sorority members had the option of coming to campus in time to help clean the house and prepare for recruitment (and play a major role in the recruitment process); or paying to have their share of the work done and playing a behind-the-scenes role during recruitment.</p>

<p>I was not in a sorority, so I don’t have a dog in this fight. However, I have belonged to organizations in which when work days were scheduled, members had the option of participating as a worker or paying to help cover expenses associated with the work. That is not something that I consider hazing. Would the OP or her D consider it hazing?</p>

<p>Also, my teenage D recently told me she was ticked off because she was expected to pay for her meal ticket when she helped at a fundraiser for a cause she supports. I had to explain to her that in the real world, this is the way it works when you support a nonprofit cause; if every supporter ate for free, there would be no proceeds to donate. I can’t help but wonder if the OP’s D is also oblivious about some rather common practices among groups/organizations/clubs. (And teams, e.g. if you don’t practice, don’t plan on getting playing time.)</p>

129

<p>I think that the discussion of hazing is a moot one: Hazing is wrong. Kids have died or been injured (emotionally and physically). There are now, in place, many avenues for all Panhellenic members (NPC, NPHC< IFC, and a few other councils) to report abuse. I can’t talk about fraternities, but I can address NPC. There are VERY strong rules in place about hazing. If a chapter is reported and found guilty, their charter is lifted. I am not saying that every house is eden. Obviously in any group there can be cliques, mean girls, and power trips. But I can also add that my daughter received gifts (as she now gives them) and fun experiences from her Big/Little. The rule is: (re hazing) If you arent willing to do/say/experience something at the same time, it isn’t ok. (example: force a sister to wear a stupid costume while you won’t is hazing.)</p>

<p>This thread however has brought up another factor: There are people who are willing, due to “knew jerk reactions” and possibly support (by one poster) to support (or not) based on prejudices.</p>

<p>We know that the OP is from the middle east. One poster…Abudahbi (sorry spelling) said straight out…your daughter was hazed…get back at them. When I read that post I sort of chuckled. We’ll say, as a given, that the OP is in the middle east. Now, I am assuming that the second poster is an Arab and probably Muslim. (and that assumption could be wrong but let’s go on…). So, in brethren we support this cause. Suppose the OP is an Arab Christian…or an Israeli Jew? Still willing to say…she was hazed and that is that?</p>

<p>As for the OP: She is distraught. Yet, after posting an inflammatory post on many levels which include racism, anti…Islam, middle east, or Jewish sentiments, AND the dreaded Greek hate em or love em…she goes away for TWENTY FOUR hours (including sleeping) and doesn’t check back? I don’t know a mother who, when their kid is in trouble, sleeps and goes about their day, especially if their child is in trouble.</p>

<p>Timing: I did a little checking. Remember this is a DISTRAUGHT mother, who’s DEVASTATED and DISTRAUGHT child went back to school and faced armagedon. All major schools that had recruitment did so prior to the BEGINNING of school, or in the first weeks of school. ALL schools that had fall formal recruitment, including the UCs (which is not in the midwest) but start much later have had recruitment. Auburn goes back first, then quickly followed by days in the SEC, midwest and the west coast. The UCs, the last, finished up about 10 days ago and the girl isn’t there. All the schools that this could be ENDED their recruitment by mid September.</p>

<p>This is a “horrible” situation. Communication is now easy and free, be it by skype, computer email or by cell phone. (Ok, the naysayers will say…the child needed time to recover…not almost two months.). Again, doesn’t make sense that neither reached out when this happened and that she has a life, including sleep time, that precludes her helping her child.</p>

130

<p>I was always afraid of hazing, but my DD’s sorority at Rhodes is completely the opposite of hazing- the big sisters shower the pledges with cute little gifts! There is absolutely NO hazing whatsoever. I love it.</p>

131

<p>mimimomx3, don’t be telling that. :eek: It won’t fit with some folks belief system. It might cause them to re-think their entrenched positions and that would be…that would be…O.K… ;)</p>

132

<p>Sorry, Curmudgeon just to pile on. Last year as a new member my daughter received: picture frames, balloons, sweatshirts, shirts, notes, candy and flowers from her sisters. This year my daughter has given: picture frames (sweatshirt to follow), soroity bookbag, a silver necklace with the insignia, and flowers and all the rest.</p>

<p>New member time is now, at least here, a time for celebration.</p>

133

<p>Post #129 may be the strangest and most off-base one I’ve ever read on CC. I just read OP’s two posts again, as well as Adudhabi-mama’s, and I don’t see anything inflammatory, racist or otherwise offensive in either of them. What am I missing? And to go the effort of researching rush dates at various colleges in an effort to debunk the original post? Weird how discussions of Greek life brings out such passion on these boards. </p>

<p>Not having experienced sorority life, and without any strong feelings for or against it (I urged D to give sororities a look, but she would have none of it), I have no useful opinion on whether OP’s post is so over-the-top as to be suspect, whether it is genuine but reflects an overreaction by both daughter and mother, or whether she has a valid concern. But I will defend OP from attacks based on the frequency of her posts. Her lack of multiple responses indicates nothing. While I realize some CC’ers seem to have nothing else in life to do but post at all times of the day and night (it’s amazing they manage to hold down jobs and get the laundry done), others may be approach the discussion board differently. It’s quite presumptuous for CC’ers to think that anyone posting a problem here is waiting breathlessly for guidance and checking in multiple times a day. And anyone who posts here is entitled to simply read and absorb the responses–and there were certainly enough opinions posted to give the OP food for thought. Finally, if the OP is genuine, I wouldn’t blame her for avoiding CC entirely after the first ■■■■■ accusation appeared. Who needs that?</p>

134

<p>^ Very well-articulated, MommaJ (post 133).</p>

135

<p>All major schools that had recruitment did so prior to the BEGINNING of school, or in the first weeks of school. ALL schools that had fall formal recruitment, including the UCs (which is not in the midwest) but start much later have had recruitment. Auburn goes back first, then quickly followed by days in the SEC, midwest and the west coast. The UCs, the last, finished up about 10 days ago and the girl isn’t there. All the schools that this could be ENDED their recruitment by mid September.>></p>

<p>There are schools on the quarter system, with greeks, that didn’t even start classes until the 29th or so. They would not have finished recruitment by mid-September, two weeks before classes even started and before students could even move in.</p>

136

<p>I think ellebud is referring to those schools that she considers “major” schools for Greek life, not every school that has Greek life.</p>

137

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<p>Are you serious? Are you seriously suggesting “them there Mooslims” are hanging together because that’s what “those people” do? And that abudhai-mama’s advice would’ve been different if the OP had been Christian or Jewish? What a horrible, offensive thing to say about a member. What exactly was the racist content of abudhai-mama’s post? “Stand up to bullies”? Yeah, that’s pretty subsersive, all right.</p>

<p>I’m seeing racism here but it’s not from the OP or abudhai-mama.</p>

138

<p>There has been absolutely NO HAZING in my daughter’s sorority and LOTS and LOTS of cute gifts (“letters” for her sweatshirt, frames, super cute decorated desk organizers that matched her room, etc…). Her “big” (who graduated) often visits and even sent her a present during rush because she knows how stressful it is.</p>

139

<p>(Naturally, this train has run completely off the track.)</p>

140

<p>Surprised? </p>

<p>Seriously. If the OP’s D is being forced to sit silently in a corner wearing her dunce cap, that’s wrong and should be reported. But if she’s been relegated to a behind the scenes role because she didn’t participate in rush boot camp and doesn’t know all the intricacies of rush week, then that is a different situation. I would hope we are all in agreement on that. </p>

<p>OP, good luck to your daughter. I hope all works out for the best.</p>