<p>^^ In the case of the Bama sororities (or at least some of them), it was more forced segregation (presumably forced by alumnae) than forced integration, since the actives WANTED to pledge black sisters. In this case, the girls were not being forced to associate with anyone, they were being prevented from associating with girls with whom they wanted to associate.</p>
<p>I appreciate everyone’s advice. We will take this all under advisement. It’s interesting that no one wants to answer the concern directly. I will restate it to see if someone bites. The exclusion of pledges based on race was the worst kept secret on campus. Yes or no? If so, then why didn’t the administration do something years ago? Why did it take bad press to force a change that should have been made a long time ago?</p>
<p>Another thing that everyone keeps saying is that the Greek system represents 30% of the student body. But, it’s a very powerful 30%…is it not? Especially when we talk about alumni donations. Those very donations that are funding the wonderful scholarships.</p>
<p>I’m sure I’m over thinking this. And in no way have we ruled out UA. Just have some reservations.</p>
<p>I believe there was finally concrete evidence that students & staff could rally behind and that the administration could finally point to as a reason for taking action now.
As a parent I knew there were separate fraternities & sororities but didn’t think there were any imagined restrictions for AA’s who wanted to pledge traditionally white houses.</p>
<p>And btw, I hear OOS liberals are beginning to infiltrate the fraternity system, although I think this is mostly new row. And don’t forget this was a student driven action. They will assure change comes to the status quo.</p>
<p>^^^ Bigdaddy, to answer your question directly, No, definitely NOT the worst kept “secret” on campus. In fact, during the 3 years that I’ve been a contributor here on this board, there have been discussions on this topic EVERY year in one way or another. Always spirited, and always in favor of change, and always of the general consensus that the Greek girls in the sororities were ready for change. The catalyst this year then? Evidence and a willingness of a few girls to come out, take the brave step, and give the administration and others who support them a way to intervene and react. In the past the very “secret” manner in which this process runs only provided speculation and innuendo of what everyone knew was actually occurring. This was NOT the case here however where there were direct accounts attributable to the situation, evidence that the Students wanted the change, but were being prevented from making that change by adults with veto power. It has been coming for a LONG time, and FINALLY there has been progress. So, NO, this is not new, nor is it or has it been a secret … its just that this year they had something to actually act on … and they did! Roll Tide!</p>
<p>I understand. Thanks again for the responses.</p>
<p>Just so we are clear. Not every OOS kid is liberal! Haha. We are pretty staunchly conservative both politically and socially. Lots of OOS students from red states…</p>
<p>Ha ha, with a name like BigDaddy I didn’t assume you were an OOS liberal.</p>
<p>If the problem was indeed the alumni within the sororities, the University should have worked with them to foster change. If it was the Fraternities, it saddens me to think the Sororities bought into the tactics to control them - because that’s what it was. Rather than letting the Fraternities decide the pecking order, and in effect divide and conquor, they should have stood strong against them and refused to buy in. That first year might have meant reduced interaction with the Fraternities, but they wouldn’t want that either, and would be forced to come around. Unfortunately by allowing the Frats make an example of another Sorority, they allow them to have power over them all.</p>
<p>My speculation and observations have been that the more OOS students attending UA with differing (not necessarily liberal opinions) the more change is invoked. The Greek system will change simply because it must, or risk losing membership from the newly diluted populace of the university. The change may be subtle, but change has been happening, or quick, as in the last ten days. </p>
<p>I would like to see the statistics of the makeup of the sororities and fraternities in (say) 10 years. What percentage of the total student population will still be Greek? What percent of the total composition of the greek system will be OOS at that time? Only time will tell, but shifts in the composition of the student population indicate shifts in the composition of the Greek system as well.</p>
<p>One can live life through the rear view mirror and shoulda/woulda/coulda til the cows come home. Or one can live life through the windshield. The UA administration is focused on the latter. So am I.</p>
<p>There’s been a tectonic shift and the landscape is no longer the same.</p>
<p>Roll Tide!</p>
<p>Bigdaddy88: Some of the fraternities, I want to mention, are integrated. </p>
<p>My son, a recent Alabama graduate, was president of an integrated fraternity. He also sat on its national board for two years. He always had the feeling that he was part of the solution, not part of the problem. His kid brother, a high school senior, feels the same way. That is one of the reasons why he ranks Alabama No. 1 on his list of schools. We are OOS, and my youngest son is fairly conservative. But he looks at all the opportunities that Alabama offers, because he saw all the good things that his older brother enjoyed.</p>
<p>I’ll add that my son’s fraternity offered a bid to an AA student this fall. The gentleman pledged another fraternity. My son’s fraternity also offered a bid to an AA student in 2011. The student accepted, but subsequently had to decline because he could not afford the fees.</p>
<p>BigDaddy. I understand your concern … as an outsider, for me, the most troubling part of the Greek situation at Bama was that the university administration allowed the separate but equal system to exist for so long without intervening (at least not publically). That said the current students have moved things forward and the new President has, very publically,intervened and stated the school demands progress … so it certainly looks like a new age at UA … one that should be appealing to an even larger set of students.</p>
<p>I have started a response to the two threads several times and then deleted my comments.<br>
On another site someone wrote, “I guess it (diversity) doesn’t count unless its Old Row.” As a Hispanic mom of a Hispanic young woman, I can tell you with absolute certainty that there were Black women in my daughter’s sorority before the media took hold of this issue, that there is now one additional Black woman (that I guess is now “Black enough,” even for the Malleteers) and that Hispanics and Asians were and are members in my daughter’s house and that their numbers generally reflect the percentages of those populations as a whole on campus (they may actually be a bit higher.) Which, while not large, is the pool there is to recruit from.<br>
On the one hand, alls well that ends well - change towards greater racial and cultural diversity needs to be made - everywhere - but on the other hand, as a racial minority I looked at the picture of my daughter’s house on bid day, see a good number of brown faces and ask, “What are they? Chopped liver?” Because what the media has been telling our smart, talented, beautiful Hispanic and Asian and Southest Asian and Bi -Racial daughters the past two weeks is that their cultures, their experiences and the diversity they bring to the table really doesn’t count.
Three years ago, when it looked like Alabama was a prime contender, I took the 2010 bid list and scanned every name in every house to determine if Hispanic surnames or “majority minority” home towns, such as ours, were represented in each of the houses. If there was no representation it was so noted. Let’s face it, I was concerned. I did the same for the 2011 bid list. Even in those two years I saw positive change. In 2012 when my daughter accepted her bid I was there on Bid Day and yes, looked for brown faces in the crowds of running girls. I came to the conclusion that things were going to be OK for my daughter in the deep south.
Alabama has been an incredibly positive academic experience for my daughter. The Big U experience has also been incredibly fun and exciting. And although difficult, these last two weeks have actually brought her and her sorority sisters closer together.
So Roll Tide and Carry On.</p>
<p>Bigdaddy, the topic of sorority integration was never a secret at UA during the time I’ve been affiliated with the University. As was seen this year, the administration has to walk a fine line, as agreed upon by its legal team, to make sure that the largest number of people can be satisfied with the result without jeopardizing the University’s mission. I think the last thing UA wanted was a huge lawsuit, decreased donations, or an angered student body.</p>
<p>I do resent the comment that the Mallet Assembly is the primary arbiter in determining if a GLO is integrated or not. What Mallet is is an example of how a coed, longtime integrated social organization can succeed on campus while charging extremely low membership fees. Until recently, a Malleteer who wasn’t living in the building was paying $100 per year in dues and activity fees. If one chose to live in the building, the cost was the lowest out of all UA-managed residence halls. Unfortunately, Mallet has had to deal with the taunts, theft, and vandalism perpetuated by a tiny segment of the GLO community because of its reputation for being more nerdy and accepting of everyone. Mallet actually has a number of members who are in GLOs and many other members of GLOs are invited to Mallet events. </p>
<p>As much as people try to discourage “tent talk” among PNMs, there is an unofficial hierarchy of GLOs, where many students would rank Machine member and allied GLOs above other GLOs. There are various reasons leading to the rankings and many people, my self included, who feel the rankings are unfair, but there are quite a few PNMs who choose a GLO based on such rankings. It’s not uncommon to hear people say that they only want to be Old Row or in one of the GLOs that would be Old Row except that their national chapters prohibit sponsorship by alcohol companies.</p>
<p>GLOs only have a strong influence on campus if one is either interested in activities which they traditionally control or works to believe that GLOs have power in a certain area. I was in a college and department popular with students in GLOs, studied and worked with members of traditionally powerful GLOs, and walked down Old Row almost daily. Yet, I hardly noticed any influence of GLOs in my daily life. </p>
<p>What it boils down to is that one has to make their own decisions and voluntary associate with organizations in which one has an interest. If membership in a certain GLO interests for a person, good for them. If not, good for them as well.</p>
<p>TX12DanceMom, having an independent media that serves as a watchdog is beneficial to society. I’m grateful that the media “took hold of this issue”.</p>
<p>As far as your comment that all’s well that ends well, I think we’ve just seen the start of the journey.</p>
<p>I don’t really get the slam on Mallet. What are they guilty of?</p>
<p>What is Mallet? Reading about the sorority-fraternity culture at UA, I feel like a stranger in a strange land! Like someone should pin a vocabulary and abbreviation list at the top of the thread.</p>
<p>A Vocab and abbreviation list would be a great addition to the sticky thread.</p>
<p>I find it interesting that there was no article in the Crimson White or with any of the media that have been covering the entire sorority controversy about the sorority that welcomed an AA this past Friday.</p>
<p>That news was reported by a large number of media outlets.</p>
<p>15 black and minority students have been offered bids at traditionally white sororities as of 2 days ago.</p>
<p>
Agreed. I’m also surprised there has not been a companion piece on the frats … are they in the same situation? better? worse?</p>