Strongly believe in NOT going away to college - am I alone?

Parents Forum
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<p>

To suggest that a child who chooses not to live near his or her parents is irresponsible or self-centered is just so wrong wrong wrong, on so many levels, that I am almost—but not quite—speechless.</p>

<p>In the case of my D, her raison d’etre is in a channel of public service. Add the community service. Add her relationship with us, cross-country notwithstanding.</p>

<p>One of my D’s best friends moved here from Moscow when she was six. The friend’s mother was trained as an architect but can’t work as such in this country and gets by working as an executive travel agent…a sacrifice she made for her D. Her D lives across country in NYC and they talk every day…which I would find a little intrusive. Daughter is actually slightly clueless in that she doesn’t appreciate the ability to walk around Moscow when she visits without ever being identified as “Jewish.” For what it’s worth, the mother and I have worked it out to a moral near-certainty that my ancestors exploited her ancestors, figuratively at least. All stuff well left behind in the Old Country.</p>

<p>We have good friends who made their careers and their lives on the West Coast after coming from the same very small town in Virginia. When one set of parents reached a certain age and circumstance, they moved the parents out here, one to an apartment, the other to assisted living facility because of medical needs and they visit several times a week. Fwiw, the husband is one of the most caring, sensitive people I’ve ever met and he works as a therapist with families with autistic children. There is <em>no</em> lack of love and affection in that family…and their son is 500 miles away in the northern part of the state, staying in the community where he went to college.</p>

<p>All the males in one of my great uncle’s family died in the camps, the women scratching out a terrible existence in Siberia…should my grandfather have stayed with his brother or should his brother have come with him?</p>

<p>Your son probably speaks Ukranian and reads a little. His children will speak a few words. Their children, if you are lucky, will remember they are partly of Ukranian descent. As for the religion of the partners they marry, don’t even ask…it’ll give you a toothache. It’s been the same pattern for virtually every American immigrant group on one time scale or another.</p>

<p>No one in my father’s extended family would dream of moving from a country where “svoboda” is a fact back to where it’s a slogan.</p>

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<p>To the OP: I am Jewish as well, so I <em>do</em> understand your fears. I am not first generation, but have heard stories and was close to grandparents’ anxieties and way of life.</p>

<p>My dad went to school in NYC and lived with his parents. He was brilliant and graduated at the top of his college class at 19. Then he went to war and lived all over the world.</p>

<p>My mom grew up in a sleepy NE town and her parents sent her away to college to meet Jewish boys (met my dad later in NYC.)</p>

<p>Plans change.</p>

<p>We all love doing for our kids. I know did/do. And raising them was at the center of my life. BUT. And this is a big but. Finding my own life has been equally important and a great role model for them.</p>

<p>Focusing on grandchildren may not be a good thing. What if your son is gay? It happens. I know gay people can adopt, but still. You get my drift. My brother married a woman who abandoned her own child to run away with him and refused to have any more children. He’s 56 and childless. Does he mind? I have no idea.</p>

<p>Did my mom mind? She didn’t say.</p>

<p>She is close to my two, but they came after I had already earned a PhD so she had to wait a long time. And I got divorced. So it looked like they would never come. </p>

<p>She had to make her own life too.</p>

<p>We all understand what you’re saying, but the bottom line is that in the scheme of things we are there to realize their dreams, not the other way around. It’s harsh, I know. Especially when we haven’t been the recipients of that kind of parenting.</p>

<p>(I know I wasn’t.)</p>

<p>It’s early days, though. You may feel very differently in a year or two. One of my cousins-in-law, an incredible young doctor who doctored in the rain forest and in Africa told me how proud he was of his mother for encouraging him to go. I said I never could, but he said when the time came, I would be able to. The I talked with him when my son was 14; now that’s he’s 20 I know I would be behind him going wherever he thought he needed to (except maybe the Moon, but if he wanted to, I couldn’t stop him, could I?)</p>

<p>He’s been to Rome and Florence without me, and now to Athens I think (anyone hear Classics major? yes), and we’ve all grown.</p>

<p>Be gentle. Give yourself time. Listen to your son. Don’t pre-decide things. It all works out.</p>

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<p>“Focusing on grandchildren may not be a good thing. What if your son is gay? It happens. I know gay people can adopt, but still. You get my drift.”</p>

<p>I know people who centered their lives around their children and future grandchildren, and then did find out their kids were gay or learned that their kids didn’t want to have kids. This includes people who were Jewish.</p>

<p>I also know plenty of people whose kids moved away because their offspring or offspring’s spouses couldn’t find jobs in their chosen field where they lived, and that included people who lived near and in big cities. </p>

<p>Many people also have to move due to grad school, and end up settling near their graduate programs because of the job contacts that they made there.</p>

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<p>Completely understood that there are and will be situations well beyond my control.
Having said that, we all have dreams and expectations for ourselves and our children and yes, my dream is that he will be close by and I will be able to help him raise his children just like my parents helped me raising him.</p>

<p>Bring it on TheDad, I love a spirited discussion!! You should watch “Jewtopia”, it might help you understand that what I believe in is not only a part of my eastern european tradition but Jewish culture as well (american Jews included). What seems intrusive to you may not be to others but the determining factor here should be if the two parties involved enjoy it or not. If they do, it’s nobody’s business that someone may deem it intrusive.</p>

<p>I’ll tell you more: my mom is a worrier and she wants me to call her every day when I get home from work. I may not even have much to say to her every night and we actually couldn’t be more different personality wise but I do it for her, I call her as soon as i walk in the door because i know it will bring her peace of mind. So yes call it intrusive if you wish…</p>

<p>Don’t get me wrong, I am not talking about extreme situations where you HAVE TO move and do whatever it takes, there are always exceptions and extraordinary situations no doubt but in general, if there is a choice and if my son is ok with staying home, I would never tell him to move somewhere just so he can learn how to be independent because I know it can be achieved in so many different ways.</p>

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<p>OP: You seem to have drawn your line in the sand and want only this one resolution. It may or may not happen for you. I think you are underestimating yourself and the power of love.</p>

<p>As John Donne describes it, it can stretch as far as in the physical world as it need be: “to airy thinness beat” as he describes it.</p>

<p>But this isn’t really a dialogue, methinks, as much as “Emily’s Manifesto.” That’s fine. You have your write to your proclamation. </p>

<p>No one contests the idea that independence can be learned many ways, but I don’t think you’re expert enough to judge what your approach may miss. One has to life that too.</p>

<p>I do wish you and your son much happiness and singlemindedness when decisions need to be made.</p>

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<p>“I would never tell him to move somewhere just so he can learn how to be independent because I know it can be achieved in so many different ways.”</p>

<p>Too true!</p>

<p>Happykid was born with a mind of her own. But she will commute to a local school for the first two years, and depending on her career choice may continue to live at home for longer than that. Whenever she does decide to fly out of the nest she is going to be just fine because of the temperament that she has. Things would be much tougher for us if she were a clingy type who really needed to be forced into independence for her own good. Financially it would be almost impossible for us to send her “away”.</p>

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<p>Well said as always, myth.</p>

<p>You have to be the only poster on cc whose posts actually raise goosebumps. </p>

<p>I wonder though if Emily is actually just sounding us out, or saying something out loud to see how it feels. Her son is a freshman in high school, it’s amazing how things change as kids learn to drive…have their first girlfriends…travel for school competitions outside our purview…get jobs and make their own money…and flat-out refuse to attend certain schools, and choose to apply to others.</p>

<p>What a shock it is as a parent to see how little control we actually have, and how much their spirits can wither if we press down too much. (I must be the only person in the world who thinks “It’s a Wonderful Life” is a tragedy! :))</p>

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<p>Emily: While I respect your position, I have to take issue with your statement that it is widely shared by American Jews. We are Jewish, too, but we did not encourage our kids to make college decisions so as to maximize the possibility that they would live near us after graduation. One of my kids did return to our city to live after she graduated, not because we expected her to, but because she loves it here. The other one, I’m certain, will live in another part of the country after he graduates. (Hell, I’ll be happy if he doesn’t make aliyah!) That is fine with us. We love our children, and of course we want to be part of their lives, but we don’t feel they must maintain daily contact with us or live close by.</p>

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<p>“Emily: While I respect your position, I have to take issue with your statement that it is widely shared by American Jews.”</p>

<p>While I’m not Jewish, I have always had Jewish friends – including some whose parents were Eastern European emmigrants – and none of my friends had been expected to attend college in their hometown or to eventually settle in their hometowns. They were encouraged to go to where they’d get the best education. They settled wherever they wanted to settle, including living a distance from their parents.</p>

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<p>well said myth my friend!</p>

<p>I wanted to add that when my daughters (hs class of 09) were going through their list making, applying and decision making processes they looked at schools on both coasts in the Rockies, the Mid west and Texas. Some oos schools made their lists and while DH was terrified that they may choose to attend those far away campuses he never said so outloud.</p>

<p>Both DDs CHOSE schools within 2.5 to 3 hours.</p>

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<p>“Finances are not an issue and is not a reason for me preferring that he stays at home but to tell you the truth, he is considering going to law school and i’d rather spend 40k or so to contribute to that than to spend on him living in the dorm and sharing a room with strangers.”</p>

<p>That’s a financial reason, in the exact same way that I could borrow money to stay in a dorm, but I’d rather not have that debt. Whether or not you have the money you would wind up with 40K less than you had before. </p>

<p>I’ll also say that it’s unlikely that he’d get a job locally even if he went to college locally, and I’m basing that off the fact that almost all the jobs listed on my college’s job recruitment site seem to be far away (given I live in Michigan so the situation might be different in a state with jobs).</p>

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<p>I have read this thread from the beginning and thoroughly enjoyed the discussion. I am a mostly introverted person (like the OP) living a rather isolated existence in small town mid-America and feel her perspective is prevalent here. She seems to me to be open to her son’s making his own decision but feels strongly that it’s important his decision takes the needs of the extended family into consideration. That seems fair to me and given that she has the localized family situation she does it will probably work out as long as there is an understanding between family members that it is ultimately his decision.</p>

<p>In my situation I find myself feeling pretty opposite from the OP. My son is in a two-year relationship with a girl whose extended family are all local (at least for the 3 generations I know about). I am concerned that my hs senior son will wind up tied to this small community that I find oppressive–devoid of racial, cultural, economic, political or any other diversity that I can think of. I am thankful he is interested ONLY in schools 2-10 hours of driving away. I might feel differently if I lived in suburban Philly though.</p>

<p>I do not live near my parents and regret that terribly sometimes. I visit with them at least twice a year and talk with them often and serve as computer consultant for hours at a time more often than I can believe. I do hope to live close to my kids and I think I’ve fostered close enough relationships with them that, hopefully, they will want to live by me too. I am also moving soon to a more metropolitan area, so that hopefully there will be opportunities for them beyond the limited ones in the area where they grew up. I would never voice my preference for them to live near though, for fear that they would feel restrained somehow and simply do the opposite, or that I would feel responsible at sometime later in their lives if they regretted having stayed close by for my sake.</p>

<p>I applaud the OP for exploring this issue. It has been my experience that those who do seek others’ viewpoints are/become more flexible on life’s important issues, regardless of their initial views. Chances are the OP’s son will consider his entire family because that’s a value that has been thoughtfully instilled in him and his mom will be respectful of his decision as long as it is driven by valid reasoning. I hope I can do the same if my son decides to marry his high school sweetheart and live in Podunk.</p>

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<p>I have only read your question and not a single reply, so what I say isn’t influenced by any other comments here. </p>

<p>Firstly, you probably can’t imagine your son going away to school because he is currently only a freshman in high school. Four years makes a huge difference.</p>

<p>Your culture may have a lot to do with your views and because of this, I say this very gently, but your post speaks mostly to your needs, not your son’s. </p>

<p>In four years, your son might not be ready to leave home and go away to school - pehaps he will choose to live at home and attend a local school. Or, he may decide that he wants to live on campus but go to a school nearby (within easy driving distance of home). Or he may decide that the best choice for him is to pack up and go to a school in another state entirely. </p>

<p>The point is, as parents we do our very best to prepare our children to survive in the world - we want them to feel secure and confident that they can stand on their own two feet. We want them to be able to support themselves, take care of themselves and be happy doing it. When it comes time for college, we can advise and tell them what is financially possible (maybe as parents we can’t afford to send them to a $40,000 a year school and that reality might take some schools off the list), but the choice should ultimately be their’s to make because they are going to be the one’s actually doing it. This is about your son - not his family. He will do well where he is happy.</p>

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<p>The majority of my husband’s family live within 1 mile of each other in the small town where most of them were born. Some have never lived anywhere else. They talk to each other several times a day and usually have a big family dinner (ranging from 10-15 people) almost every night at his cousin’s house.</p>

<p>While we enjoy it when we visit, to live like that every day would drive me and DH NUTS!!! Which is why we live 1500 miles away! ;)</p>

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<p>My daughter has been home from her distant college since May. The first few months were difficult and now I love that she is here. She has grown far more in the past few months than she did the whole time she was away. I don’t think that kids need to be away, but it must be their choice. When you try to cage the very person you love so much, they itch to fly away. I have found that my kids still love being with us (even though their mess makes me crazy). The three oldest will leave soon to go back to school and I will cry when they go…I always do, but I am so happy to see that they are wonderful, interesting, and healthy young people. </p>

<p>OP you love your son so much. Do you really think he will ever be out of your life? Things will change, but the love does not. They grow up and have their lives as they should. It will be up to you if you resent him for doing so. With the way you describe yourself I could imagine you having a wonderful relationship with your son and his future family. It really is all about perspective. You could choose to have it wonderful or you could allow it to become difficult.</p>

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<p>Hopefully in a few years when your S (and family) makes the decision on colleges he’ll be free within reason to pursue ‘his’ goals and desires. You stated you wouldn’t force him to stay at home but kids this age can be heavily influenced by the parents including being ‘guilted’ into staying at home even though they’d prefer to spread their wings further.</p>

<p>IMO it’s ideal if the student can live at college whether that’s a college 30 minutes away (such as one of my Ds did) or a 5 hour plane ride to the other side of the country. I think they gain in many ways by living somewhat more independently and it’s not strictly related to doing their own laundry. This independence gain would especially be beneficial if one has a heavily involved extended close by family.</p>

<p>Another point - depending on the major (for example a CS major with a Chem minor with an on-campus job and internships), one may have much less time for commuting and especially for the consequential family commitments than one might think. There were many times my D was up all night (literally) in the lab and many other times she worked in labs until midnight or 2 in the morning and I wouldn’t have been comfortable with her traveling all about town at all of those hours, especially when sleep deprived. A friend of mine had a D who also was CS but a commuter and the bottom line is that he rarely saw her other than in passing due to the amount of work she had.</p>

<p>I think for students in America, they’re starting a new phase of their life not just in their academic education but also in their own personal growth yet for the parents, it’s still largely the parent-child relationship. The live-at-home commuter still often (not always) has to contend with this parent-child paradigm of the parent and that could be frustrating and stifling for them.</p>

<p>I think it’s important for the parent to be honest with themselves and determine whether restrictions whether forced or coerced are really for the best interest of the child or really the selfish interests of the parent.</p>

<p>Another point - just because a child goes away to college doesn’t mean they’ll never come back home or be alienated from the family. If there are strong family bonds at the time they go to college those bonds will likely persist whether they go away to college or commute.</p>

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<p>This section from our OP sent chills down my spine:</p>

<p>“My son is my life so that also adds up to my fear of letting go so it’s a combination of a lot of different factors. I can’t imagine my life without doing things for him and taking care of him and the same goes for my husband, that’s just who I am - if we think of a mission we have in life mine is to take care of people I love.”</p>

<p>Is this love or control? Or, perhaps, some of each? I know I would have felt completely smothered if, at age 18, my mother had had that attitude. Instead, she wanted me to spread my wings and do things for myself. She wanted me to work her OUT of a job (mothering) and into an adult friendship. </p>

<p>Consider, please, the reality that your son has never had to live with someone he didn’t know. If he spends a year or more with a college roommate, it can be great training for a marriage. I’d sure rather he cut his teeth on the “sharing space” issues with someone who could be swapped out at the end of the term than on a bride!</p>

<p>If you have tons of love and energy to share, there are always kids, dogs, gardens, libraries, elders, museums, old homes, nonprofits and communities that would adore to have your helping hands and enthusiasm. </p>

<p>A dash of salt helps most dishes. Too much salt ruins them. Mothering a young adult is the same IMHO.</p>

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<p>Lots of interesting comments, as usual for CC, on this thread.</p>

<p>I think the “cultural” issue is really more an immigrant issue. Most recent immigrants to the US have very close relationships with their families. With succeeding generations, those ties tend to not be as close. Obviously, the degree to which the ties fray varies from family to family based on economics, personalities, longevity, etc.</p>

<p>I had to comment on the OP’s statement about Americans putting their parents in nursing homes. If you have the financial resources to quit your job to care for your parents yourself or pay for someone else to care for them at home, more power to you. But many of us need to keep working to support ourselves and our own children, and I think it is unfair and offensive to suggest that an adult child with a parent in a nursing home or assisted living facility is somehow ungrateful or selfish. Different families have different circumstances. Would you want your son to quit his job – and maybe jeopardize his own financial security – to take care of you when he is an adult?</p>

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<p>OP - Your son is only a HS freshman. </p>

<p>I wouldn’t even discuss it with him anymore. He knows how you feel about it, doesn’t he? </p>

<p>And wait and see what HE decides to do.</p>

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<p>The son is a freshmen. I would suggest the parents spending the next 4 years developing interests in addition to raising son. Suburban Philadelphia is not exactly a hot bed of great jobs for students in most fields. </p>

<p>Family used to be about the kids staying near you. These days most people we know think of the opportunity to stay close as going where they are–if it’s indeed something all want.</p>