<p>I agree that it takes the RIGHT therapist & the RIGHT attitude between the patient and therapist for therapy to accomplish anything. There are a lot of therapists out there, but to me, it IS a waste of $$$ to force someone to go if they are hostile to the idea. They may or may not keep appointments but it IS work to make any progress in therapy and the patient does need to at least be somewhat open to the idea of trying. Therapists CAN “roll with resistence,” and try to get the patient to want to work with him/her, but the patient has to be willing to make SOME effort.</p>
<p>Our kids have seen a few therapists at the insistence of the school & MDs but the kids never really “clicked” with any of them and some of them made the situation MUCH worse. </p>
<p>The most effective technique I am aware of that is used to help people make changes is “motivational interviewing,” and it can be very powerful with skilled counselors, especiallly if the patient is at least slightly willing to be present and talk (even about how mad s/he is and why s/he doesn’t need any help).</p>
<p>I don’t have any exact solutions to the OPs problem, but helicopter parents who control their kids lives and force them to do the right thing without any consideration of the child’s feelings might be on to something. I sure wish I had parents who ground into me if I did not become a doctor or lawyer or something I would be a failure and then forced me to get A’s in all my classes regardless of my mental health.</p>
<p>I mean, look at my situation, does the OP want her son to end up like me, at home with no direction in life and feeling like a victim of the “system”? I don’t think she does, so I think she had better get her son to conform to the system than to let him explore his possibilities and become an “independent mind” because after that he’ll never want to go back to school.</p>
<p>Loserman,
Is there a reason you aren’t trying to get any treatment or counseling? It doesn’t sound like you’re very happy with your current situation and don’t see any possibilities that currently appeal to you. You sound quite bright and have a lot of potential options, but life is full of compromises. </p>
<p>Not sure what yo mean by an “independent mind,” and why that would preclude being able to make a comfortable living and having a happy life. Many of us think we exercise independent thought but still have happy lives and comfortable livings. </p>
<p>At some point, each person has to take some personal responsibility and decide if they want to have some influence about what direction their life heads instead of blaming what parents and others did and didn’t do. Think about it and REALLY consider getting some counseling so you can figure out what you want to do with the next 60 or so years of your life–there are so many options and YOU have the power to choose.</p>
<p>One more thing, OP - some people are mean drunks. That is a perhaps overly blunt way of saying that alcohol brings out the worst in some people. Since the kids in the dorm room had been drinking when busted, is it possible that your son was drunk and reacted poorly due to that? Have you ever seen him under the influence? Might he be one of those people whose drunken reactions are violent anger when challenged? If so, it would be a good thing to learn.</p>
<p>Also loserman, it is never too late and (perhaps giving you a little of what you asked for) please get up off the couch, turn off the TV (the depress your soul box) and the computer games (the suck the hours of your life mechanism - believe me, I used to play for extended hours so I know) and take a shower, put on your nicer pair of jeans and a T shirt, and go outside for a walk to get some sunshine on your face.</p>
<p>Then, open up Craigs List on your computer and look for a job. You don’t have to find your Passion (ugh). Just something to pay some bucks into your savings account and to help out with food.</p>
<p>Then look yourself in the mirror and say it has been a crappedy crap crap economy for three years but it is turning a corner and I will join it and turn the corner, too.</p>
<p>Then take whatever crap job you can find, do well at it, and keep watching craigslist for something better.</p>
<p>In between, figure out if you would like some counseling and go get it.</p>
<p>When the couch calls to you tell it, “Depression is anger turned inwards towards myself. I am working through what I am angry at enough to be able to move off this island of despair. I am getting help. I can do this.”</p>
<p>You can, you know. It is never too late. Teenagers and young adults always see the worst in the system. In every generation. Many get horribly frustrated and don’t want to join this imperfect world. It is not fair. (It isn’t.) Eventually you get to the point where you figure out a messy path through the thicket. You can do this.</p>
<p>OP here. Unexpected but very hopeful turn of events. Continued just being “present” for S has resulted in some interesting discussions. We have not threatened, cajoled, or insisted on counseling as everything is still very raw and new. My instinct has been and remains to give him space and distance from the precipitating events to work through and present his own view for the future. </p>
<p>Yesterday I spent some time just being with him. Literally. Just sitting in the room with him, sometimes talking, sometimes just companionable silence. I’m not sure exactly how it happened but his forming plans began to come out. He outlined plans for study this summer that would require $ investment from us. Starting in the fall he wants to enroll in a local u to take some classes in an area he avoided at his top 20 national U because he didn’t want to hurt his gpa (ie higher level math). He wants to apply for admission to a very different u for fall 2012, and, with the classes he will take in 2011-12 pursue a different tack for his studies. </p>
<p>He is still unhappy to be out of school right now. He regrets his decisions. He wishes he had done it very differently. He still feels he was screwed by the schools’ disciplinary system, but acknowledges that 80% of what they accused him of doing - excessive drinking and offensive, obnoxious behavior -was his doing and his choice. The rest he recognizes is the school punishing him for how he behaved, and he has already begun trying to address that last portion. The medical leave is still on the table and he is pursuing it. </p>
<p>Oh. And he agreed to seek insight into what motivates him to react as he does. It will not be in the clinical DSM-IV diagnostic criteria format, but rather in the context of participation in a personal growth program with which I and others I know are familiar and have found to be positive and insightful.</p>
<p>Happier day today. I am glad I have followed my heart and my instincts in knowing my son. I think he was situationally depressed and needs time and space removed from the situation to regroup.</p>
<p>Great news. May have been the bump in the road to get him to his true path. Sounds as if he wouldn’t have allowed himself to pursue his true called at the top 20 U. Growth is messy. Good luck.</p>
<p>If you’re going to fund the summer courses, then he should probably get working on the paperwork for the local university. I still think that a part-time job wouldn’t be a bad idea (I think that a part-time job is a good idea for any student in just about any circumstance).</p>
<p>It’s good that he’s still working on the medical leave - don’t burn any bridges.</p>
<p>It sounds like he’s had a lot of time to think and is rationally considering his options.</p>
<p>There’s still a month until most summer programs start so that should provide time for rest, exercise and generally getting recharged.</p>
<p>Laxtaxi, your son is lucky to have you (and I would say, you are lucky to have him).</p>
<p>I think concern for GPA is one of those false motivators that plague many students these days. Perhaps he will experience some freedom from such things and actually enjoy a new path.</p>
<p>It is wonderful that you know of a personal growth program that does not involve pathologizing your son.</p>
<p>The OP never really asked for advice, and clearly doesn’t need any at this point. So in conclusion, just wishing her and her family good luck with what is ahead.</p>
<p>Loserman, I am ever interested in what would help turn things around for you and others in your predicament. I see a number of bright young people who lost their motivation and direction, and am at loss as to what advice to give, what to do? Can you help us here? In doing so, you may help a lot of us deal with young people in the same malaise, and I hope, help yourself a bit too.</p>
<p>Backside, DH and I went to a to 25 university. The stats are great for this school, and now that we are of the older generation, we see that most of our classmates have lived up to the rep of the college. But for the 10 year period, maybe more, from freshman year on, there were a lot of us who screwed up, plain and simple. My DH’s close friend and former roommate was a drug zombie for years, and is now a PHD renowned in his field and considered a model citizen and a very dear father to his two kids. I can go down a whole list of such stories. So what is going on with your son is not atypical at all. Many young adults go through temporary insanity for a while</p>
<p>A good friend of mine is a “minor celebrity”, well known in the movie industry, and he was in jail, in drug rehabs, in sleaze city for some years before he got his act together. Failed out of 3 colleges. Now is the father of two great kids, and is doing well, and is a happy, stable man. . The list just goes on and on.</p>
<p>But if there is truly a little black cloud that at the center of all of the temporary smoke is what is the concern. That does not go away as easily. Fortunately for most of us, most of this is smoke that blinds, chokes and causes paid, but does dissipate in time.</p>
<p>@OP – I am someone who has struggled with depression and I have to work very hard to maintain my equilibrium. I also gravitated to higher level math. It requires a level of extreme concentration and the type of thinking involved really suits my personality. It might be a really good direction for your son.</p>
<p>Great news. I think I’m familiar with the program you are talking about, and it really is great for uncovering self-sabotaging patterns and learning to make changes. Heck, even the not taking math sounds self-sabotaging to some extent. So, it’s no wonder he “blew up.” Maybe he can learn how to not get himself to the point where he feels so trapped. Again, good luck.</p>
<p>
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<p>It is NEVER too late til the moment you die. </p>
<p>Pick one thing, one small habit to change, and make a 90 day committment to that new habit. So, let’s say, for example, “Every day for the next 90 days I will read a book instead of watching TV.” Start small. “Every day, for the next 90 days, I will get up and take a walk for an hour.” Or, “work out for an hour.”</p>
<p>One small consistent change for 90 days can begin to alter your life, as it might give you some insight into how you can assist yourself in changing the way you are living your life. Good luck.</p>
<p>For those that think that it’s too late, go to the diet/exercise thread in the Parent’s Cafe. There you will see a bunch of old geezers and lady-geezers getting into shape from years or decades of body abuse.</p>
<p>Goodness me… I have a story of redemption that I’d forgotten about that should help, but it sounds like thing are on the right tracks.</p>
<p>I’m going to be sort of general with some of the details, because the specifics could identify this person, easily, if anyone on CC has any knowledge of the circumstances. We know, very well, someone who was kicked out of an Ivy for some criminal damage to property, done while drunk (although the person was of legal drinking age). The person immediately took responsibility for the actions, but hired a lawyer and did whatever was needed for reparations. Can’t remember how many semesters were lost (one or two), but the person eventually was reinstated to the school, graduated and went on to one of the top MBA programs in the country. This person was so successful in their career, that they were able to retire very, very comfortably around age 40, to stay home with their children, who were early elementary age. So given the circumstances, this was a person who definitely turned their life around after some rather serious bumps in the road.</p>
<p>Congrats OP, sounds like things are really moving in the right direction. My D was happy that at her CC she pursued a lot of things she had not at her competitive HS. This freed her to explore a lot of new options and encouraged her to take courses in a wide array of fields at the U she transferred to. The counselors are intrigued by the wide interests evidenced on her transcripts. She feels they have all added to the breadth of her college experience and will help her wherever her future leads. I’m sure your S is very relieved that you & H are giving him the time & space to work out a new plan that sounds like it will work better for him. Great that he is feeling more in control of things now. Yes, growing up is quite a messy and time-consuming business.</p>
<p>Backside, I’m not a parent, but I would just like to say that I think your insights and intuition about your son’s situation are excellent. I agree with you that it is most important to avoid adding any additional burden of shame to your son, since he is probably already dealing with a huge amount of it (much more than is really justified by the incident at his college). He really needs to feel he can completely trust you on an emotional level since he feels betrayed by others, and to have a safe place and period of time to process what has happened. I think part of that trust involves not coercing him into therapy before he feels ready to participate, and besides, as others have pointed out, it doesn’t help and may really hurt if the person feels coerced into it. It is great to read about parents like you who will be patient and give their kid the time and space he needs to work out his issues. Doing that will show him you believe in him and love him unconditionally. Best wishes to you and your family.</p>
<p>My prayers are with you and your son. Just keep loving him like you already are. But of the next importance is to get some counseling for yourselves so you can learn how to deal with this and keep both of you healthy. Perhaps a therapist will have some ideas as to how you can persuade your son to get into therapy and get evaluated. Are there any things you could use as “leverage” to get your son at least to go once. Sometimes if you can just get them to go "just once’ , you can get the process started.</p>
I’m sure your S is very relieved that you & H are giving him the time & space to work out a new plan that sounds like it will work better for him. Great that he is feeling more in control of things now. Yes, growing up is quite a messy and time-consuming business.</p>