Don’t know where to turn

Parents Forum
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My son is in his 3rd year at a prestigious state university. He was going to fail all his classes last semester so he withdrew from the university. He failed 2 of 3 classes the semester before that.
We told him we would not pay for classes this semester because it was obvious he is not trying in school. We said he needs to get a job and if he was ready to study seriously in the fall, we would pay for classes again. He is extremely angry with us and refuses to get a job insisting that he should be in school and taking classes. This is completely delusional thinking to me. We told him we won’t help support and pay his rent at school if he doesn’t get a job. I can not believe the entitlement

I don’t know what to do or where to turn. He has been going to a therapist for a year. He was prescribed anti depressants but said they didn’t work. I go to a therapist because I am so sad and frustrated about how he acts. He says we favor his sister over him (I don’t think that is true. We love them both and have paid for everything for both of them until he wanted a car. We said he has to pay for his own car if he wants one. His sister does not have a car and they are at the same university)

I have read self help books, seen a therapist, talked to university counseling resources and Dean of students. He doesn’t seem to want to follow anyone’s advice to improve his situation. Just lashes out at me and blames me for all his problems. I don’t think he does drugs or alcohol and I think he has decent friends. Why is he like this? What can I do? It seems unreal

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So sorry you are going through this. It seems that when our kids struggle, it is so much more painful than when we go through disappointments or hard times. I would continue to try to offer support, love and encouragement about seeking additional mental health resources while also sticking with your very reasonable limits. He may need to try a new therapist, and often people need to try a number of medications before they find the right one (or dose) for them.

He might need a little more time to really feel the consequences of not having a job or the financial resources he’ll need. If mental health problems are making it seem impossible for him to work, that’s one thing. However, it sounds like he just doesn’t want to get a job. I don’t think it would do him any good in the long run to just support him while he doesn’t work or take classes seriously. I know it’s painful in the meantime. Hugs to you!

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Thank you. It’s so hard

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Difficult situation.

Did your son do well academically during his first two years at the university ?

Has his demeanor changed over time or in a more sudden & dramatic fashion ?

Regardless of the answers, I cannot help. Seems as though these are basic issues for a qualified medical practitioner.

P.S. FWIW I have heard of similar cases occurring when students face severe pressure from coursework & financial or social issues. Coping skills &, possibly, medication should be considered.

P.P.S. Is your son happy with his major ? Obviously, he is frustrated & lashing out due to failure.

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I’m so sorry!

FWIW, I think you are doing all you can.

Sounds like your son needs to get his mental health issues straightened out first and foremost. I agree that maybe new meds/new therapist may be necessary.

Big cyber hugs to you!

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It is very common for kid’s that age to be misdiagnosed with unipolar depression when it is part of what some experts refer to as a depressive manifestation of the bipolar spectrum. It usually takes many years to get to the right diagnosis. One key indicator is that antidepressants don’t work or make things worse. I strongly recommend you fully explore that possibility. Dr. Nassir Ghaemi is an incredible source. Best of luck. Here are a couple of links: Nassir Ghaemi: Manic-Depressive Illness- controversies - YouTube The Bipolar Spectrum - PMC

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This is heartbreaking, and there is so little that you can actually do.

The only small things I can think of to offer are:

…from my mother, when one of my brothers was behaving pretty much exactly as you described: when he is the least lovable is when he needs loving the most.

…from Mary Sheedy Kurcinka (wildly paraphrased): he can lash out you so terribly precisely because he trusts you so much: in a deep part of him, he trusts that you will still love him and be there for him.

—from a friend: life is long.

That does nothing to ease the hurt of a beloved child spinning out of control and throwing his emotional pain at you. It does nothing to reflect that you have so few tools at your disposal, because of course he is now technically an adult. And it does nothing to help you discern whether this is the start of a some of the mental health issues (such as bipolar and schizophrenia) that can emerge at this age.

His behaviour may be entitled but at root it reflects some sort of pain. With my brother it took 20 years to come out- and when we saw what a tiny seed of misunderstanding had grown into all that pain was it was gut-wrenching.

In my brother’s case (so similar- parents wouldn’t keep paying for school when he was not making any academic effort at all, so he dropped out and moved home; they said that if he lived at home he had to get a job, so he moved 4000 miles away. He worked a series of jobs, fell across computers and found his niche. He went back to college part time (supporting himself, b/c he ‘didn’t need anything from anybody so there’). Slowly he found his feet, found a best friend & life partner, and finally found his way home. There were no magic bullets, and it wasn’t a big emotional moment. It was lots and lots of small interactions, with the door always open that finally re-built into something strong.

The great thing is that our parents- especially our Dad, who took much of the heat (and to be fair to my brother, our Dad was a very old-school military parent, so a lot less … flexible…than you seem to be!) lived long enough to enjoy a new, better, relationship.

I know that superficial similarities are just that- superficial; that one anecdote says nothing about how your situation can / should / will unfold, and that your family has to walk its own path.

I am so sorry for your troubles.

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Not a psychologist, but have been through this with one of mine. It sounds like it could be depression and it can take some time for the meds to work and/or to find the right combination. Does he have any other conditions like ADHD or other? Was his school fully online last two semesters? Many kids are resistant to taking anti-depressants because there are side effects. And they may also be resistant to life style changes that can help.

The most important thing is his mental health. I know it can be frustrating to see a kid turn their back on an educational opportunity many kids would love to have. However, if he has a mental health issue, it is a disease. Perhaps you can offer to pay his rent for this semester if he goes back to the therapist and tries some other meds. He would then have some time to get a job. He could move back home, but he is probably responsible for his share of the rent whether he is at school or not. And if he is at home he will be angry and resentful and less motivated to work.

I would make it clear that you will pay rent only until April or May and that he would then have to live home or find a way to pay his own expenses. It is very hard to navigate these choppy waters with adult kids. I watched one of mine go through a substantial pile of savings due to not working because of depression. I had to literally dial the phone to get him to call for an appointment. It was really terrifying and frustrating. A few years later he is doing much better, and is in charge of his own life. He has a decent job (although not a college degree) but still struggles at times.

Hugs and good luck

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I think you are on to something.
He adamantly says he is not depressed and doesn’t need meds. He does see a therapist but I see no improvement. She recommended psychological testing. But he won’t go. I really wish he would. Thank you all for your kind words

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I’m so sorry for what you are going through.

While I can’t fully put myself in your shoes, I do have a teen with similar challenges. It is agonizing to try and enforce accountability and ownership for choices while also dealing with possible mental health issues. You ask yourself if tough love (like you are doing with the job) will put their mental health over the top. It’s often difficult to divine whether what you’re seeing is behavioral, or mental health, or both. This might be something to start discussing with your own therapist, and develop a plan to identify any behavioral issues that might be at play in addition to the mental.

I also agree with another poster that you might want to look at bipolar depression or other types of conditions. We were treating our child for regular depression, and now are treating it as bipolar. It has not helped her academic performance, but it has helped her mood. And with her IEP, they are starting to work on the behavioral components. It is a marathon, not a sprint, filled with setbacks, frustrations, and feeling like a failure as a parent. Sending you good thoughts that you can get to the bottom of his issues quickly.

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So sorry. It’s hard to see our kids struggle.

You said he won’t get a job. Personally, it might be time for some tough love. Are you paying for his phone? His car? Tell him he has until the end of Feb to find a job, at which point you will no longer pay for those things. And then cancel his phone and car insurance. Insist that if he lives in your home, he has to live by your rules. That means continuing to see a therapist and finding work.

I know it’s really hard, and if he is depressed, it seems even harder. You might have to help him find a job. Let him be angry. He knows you love him, regardless.

As far as college is concerned, I think that needs to take a back seat for now. It’s the least important issue at the moment.

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OP- big hugs to you. I am relieved to see that you are seeing your own therapist- put on your oxygen mask before you assist the people around you. I hope it’s helping- at least to vent to someone.

What does your son say about his current situation and what is his near term plan? If you don’t know, ask him. Not in a hostile way- but in the spirit of “I am done trying to “fix” you, if you won’t take the therapists advice and if you say the meds aren’t helping, so what do YOU propose as next steps?” If he wants to go back to college, it’s legitimate (I think) to tell him that if he takes two community college courses and passes them with a B or better, you’d be willing to discuss having him return to his college. If he wants to get a job and move out- great. If he wants to get a job and move to his college town where his friends are (if in fact they are there during covid) that’s also an option- I knew many guys in college (strangely, no women) who had dropped out, taken a leave of absence, or whatnot and were living on someone’s couch in town).

But the message is “I’m not going to try and fix this, let’s come up with a plan together” and see what he says. You may be surprised.

And one tactic (which I learned in therapy, btw) is to own whatever accusation he throws at you. So- ok, you favored his sister, or his sister got whatever she wanted and he didn’t. Great- we’ve established that. But now what?

He may counter “buy me a car to make up for it” and you get to explain that since you can’t afford to buy him a car right now, you’d be happy to entertain another plan- like maybe you’d match whatever he saves for his car- he saves up 5K from a job, you match him so his budget is 10K.

I have found that “owning it” really shuts down the other person pretty quickly. They’ve spent all their energy accusing you, and don’t have enough energy to take it to the next level, and you can pretty much negotiate something realistic after that. Kid wants a car? He gets a job, saves his money, you’ll help him get a car.

But big hugs.

And don’t be reluctant to switch his therapist (if he agrees). If nothing is changing you all may need a fresh approach…

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Just want to clarify: he does not live with you at present?

COVID is not mentioned but I noticed that the two semesters of failure were during COVID. How much of a factor is that? Did he do well in previous semesters/years?

If he hasn’t has an evaluation, there may be undiagnosed reasons for his failures at school. And a good psychiatrist could try to differentiate depression, bipolar disorder, ADHD, anxiety and other issues. Trying one med often isn’t enough.

Parents all have their own approaches and consistency is important. My own style would to be avoid tough love or any kind of punitive approach. Clearly he is hurting in some way. I would support him as much as possible. Tell him you want to help him , want him to do well, and want him to return to school, but want to protect his transcript. Offer to help him financially while he works things out, but that working can also help him get clarity (Can he work during COVID?)

Boys who are close to their mothers sometimes act like this because it is hard to break that connection, so they are aggressive about it, especially if the presence of the father is not strong. That said, young people who develop bipolar 1 often can get pretty icy and critical, as a way to control themselves.

I like the comment that life is long. Many of us have gone through similar things and it works out. Your relationship with him is more important than school or work or money or anything really. I would take his criticism as much as you can stand, tell him you respect his feelings, and be supportive if possible during these hard times. That is only my point of view and I don’t know either of you!

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Thank you. I agree our relationship is most important. But he says he hates me. He blames me for all his problems (so unfair. I certainly didn’t tell him to fail his classes. In fact I urged him to get help, get a tutor, join study groups, etc). He def has a problem and he is not trying to fix it. And it breaks my heart because I know he is hurting

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And I am heartbroken our relationship is so bad. I want it to improve. I want to know what I can do to be better. But he won’t go to joint counseling and I dont know what to do. I don’t want to punish him. But it is not fair for us to pay for all rent and expenses and he won’t even get a job

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PM’ing you

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Other folks have said it already but it bears repeating: You’re doing everything right.

I don’t want to give false hope but your son sounds a lot like me in college. What it took for me to turn around wasn’t therapy or meds or tough love. I just needed to mature. I took a year off from college and supported myself (this was possible because it was not covid-times and the cost of living was low!). I made the decision because I was tired of my parents hassling me. I learned quickly how valuable a degree would be and went back with renewed enthusiasm.

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I don’t see this suggested yet; how about a discussion on part-time/reduced course load until he can achieve full course load again? He wants to be there; you want him there but productively. He’s there because he’s capable of the work, but needs to rebuild his confidence (which I also think is due to covid changes or burn out). Perhaps 6-9 credits will do. If the school needs him there full time/12 credits for campus housing, maybe he can audit the remaining or some arrangement. I’m sure the therapist can assist working out paperwork for accommodations etc. I hope for the best for you both.

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One of my kids left college and did part-time at community college while working, and then transferred to a degree completion program at a university, that allows taking even just one class (she takes two at a time so as to get financial aid). A reduced course load can do wonders for all kinds of situations, but there is no rush.

Our state university allows one or two at a time, and there are many adult learner, continuing education, and degree completion programs

Traditional residential colleges will sometimes allow 3 classes, particularly with documentation.

I still wonder how much of this is related or at least triggered by the COVID situation. At the moment one of my kids cannot work and I am helping to support her.

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I have a nephew who went through something similar a couple years ago. He
was in an engineering program at a great school. He got behind because he was up gaming until 4am every night and
just couldn’t catch up then quit trying. He hid it for a while and withdrew from almost everyone. Wasn’t doing much else except gaming actually he admits now. Even “missed the flight” to come home for a holiday after his parents bought him a ticket. There were some pretty unfun arguments, particularly with his mom. Some “I hate you’s” getting thrown around. The school would have let him come back the next semester. Instead, he moved home and transferred to less intense but still decent engineering program at a state school nearby. He’s doing great now and will graduate in December I think. He’s a
great human and back to his old self now, just lost his way for a while. Back to hugging his mom now. Thankfully there were no alcohol/drug issues which would have made for a more complicated rebound. Just thought I would share a happy ending. Hang in there.

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