<p>I think you should do something fast. I dropped out a couple years ago from a decent university, like your son and all I do is watch movies, listen to music, and sleep in my Dad’s apartment. And I don’t see the situation changing anytime soon. Maybe one of these days I will go to the nearest movie theater and try to get a job there, but other than that I’m not motivated to do anything and have no life plans.</p>
<p>I am so sorry that your family is going through this. It would be in your sons best interest to get to therapy and also to get that medical withdarawal to get rid of the F’s. We had similar difficulties with one of our children, and sadly the road is not easy, but often there is light at the end of that dark tunnel you are looking at right now. I am sending you best wishes and hugs…good luck!</p>
<p>So sorry, too, for your struggle. I agree with Compmom’s views. This: “I still think that this sounds like the reaction of an achieving, idealistic kid, who possibly had based some of his identity on the regard of others, who might be traumatized by the incident and its effect on his self-esteem.”</p>
<p>Not for nothing is “the hero’s journey” an essential theme [Monomyth</a> - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“Hero's journey - Wikipedia”>Hero's journey - Wikipedia) . Your son is on his own hero’s journey now and he is at the point where he needs to find redemption and a way home. </p>
<p>My son was a good kid who was treated like a bad kid in high school (the administration lumped him with some LD neighborhood kids who were great outside of school but struggled mightily in school and son was friends with them and hence not treated as one of the “good” kids). Had I seen Compmom’s clear write up we would have been much better able to discuss institutional behavior and I will be printing this out for family discussion. </p>
<p>We focused on how you do not have to be perfect to be wonderful. We talked about the disease, “perfectitis,” that many top performing kids seem to contract. We talked about forgiveness - finding ways to forgive the grown ups / administration for not being perfect and then to find forgiveness towards yourself when you acted imperfectly.</p>
<p>Somehow pointing out the mythic nature of challenge/failure/struggle/redemption/forgiveness helped DS to frame his experience such that he could digest it and move on. His high school experience still comes up in discussion as he processes and digests it - there is still lots of resentment. I think when good kids are seen as bad kids it really throws them.</p>
<p>Maybe part of our task is to teach humility. The world certainly is efficient at doing so. You may be the delight of your parents’ and teachers’ lives but for others you are just another pimple on the back of humanity. Can you tolerate being seen this way by some ppl? Eventually you have to find a way to do so.</p>
<p>OP here again. I am so grateful to you all for sharing your insights and wisdom. Many of you are offering conflicting advice, and honestly I see that as a testament to how dicey and confusing this situation really is. So let me lay out how things are, and where I see where we are going and I’m interested in your thoughts.</p>
<p>First, our son is not being sullen and obnoxious all day long, withdrawn completely from family. To the contrary, for example, when I walked in the door from work last night he greeted me with a friendly hello. He asked how my day went. He was still in his PJ’s, granted. But he was up, around, and in the public space of our home. It was a Friday night, and spouse and I made DELIBERATE plans to have dinner with (warm, comforting, understanding) friends (ie we believe we have to continue to demonstrate a normal life and household that doesn’t revolve around his troubles). He wished us a nice dinner. When we returned home later, he was up, he had showered and changed into regular clothes. I gave him a kiss and told him he smelled nice. Then I invited him to get up in the morning and have breakfast with me, and he readily agreed.</p>
<p>This morning I came downstairs to find a note saying “I couldn’t sleep so I took a melatonin - I may not be able to get up to go out for breakfast with you - I’m sorry.” Hey, at least he was considerate enough to address my feelings. I just now went up to his room and said I saw your note. He apologized again and said I just couldn’t sleep. I said ok, I’m going to make some breakfast now, come on down. He’ll be down shortly. so you can see, he’s not completely off on an island. My instinct says that soon he’ll be engaging us and we can nudge him toward self-help. Spouse has already been pointing out jobs in Craigslist. He is on the internet discussing things going on in our community. He’s not yet talking “big picture,” what am I going to do with my life stuff yet. But he is engaging with us and is aware of a world out there. I think he’s going to get over himself, and slowly but surely join the human race. </p>
<p>He also ate my entire package of fresh raspberries I was saving for breakfast. Grrr. </p>
<p>So knowing my son as I do - and knowing his history after his teenage screwups in the past - I want to give him space to come to us. Right now his shame and humiliation is huge. I want to let him know he can let go of that with us, we are not judging him at this moment. </p>
<p>Lots of people - here included, as well as friends - are insisting that we get him - force him, really - into counseling immediately. My sense says not. My instincts don’t see immediate threat of harm. I believe he knows and feels that spouse and I love him unconditionally, and that we are giving him space. </p>
<p>For now. Not forever. Soon, counseling will start to enter our conversation. </p>
<p>Why wait? Here’s why. There are still two loose threads hanging over from his withdrawal. First, he did sign paperwork requesting medical rather than regular withdrawal last week. The dean in charge of making that decision is very dubious in light of son’s behavior. But he has left the door open to considering it. Son wants it, we want it, I think even the school wants it. Son is very aware. We are sort of waiting for that shoe to drop. If they give him medical withdrawal, it may very well - will probably, in fact - come with some stipulations that he get help. That would be leverage to get him to agree to help. And, also, the uncertain is weighing on him greatly. He has expressed this. Regardless of the outcome, finality will be the natural place to “move on.”</p>
<p>The same is true of the disciplinary process that is still going on. His advocate has filed an appeal. The appeal is legitimate, as some of things the school did in pursuing this case against son were over the top. This is NOT to excuse his behavior. Rather it is just to get this to a final place, with all process exhausted, with a slightly lesser consequence than is currently in place. That should be within a week or two. Honestly spouse and I could care less about the ultimately outcome. We just want the process to run its course to the end. Then he, and we, can move on. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, I have reached to the deans involved at the school. Not to negotiate, and convince, or cajole. Rather just to let them know that there are caring, non-accusing parents on this end of what they see, who - like them - want to help their student/our son get past this behavior and success. </p>
<p>I should also point out that S is not a stranger to and is not automatically adverse to counseling. He did some in middle school and loved it, and actually went to the university psychiatrist a few times this spring on his own initiative (actually, on the initiative of a family friend who lives near his U). So I have hope.</p>
<p>My friend just sent me this:</p>
<p>On Children
Kahlil Gibran</p>
<p>Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.</p>
<p>You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.</p>
<p>You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer’s hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.</p>
<p>Rudyard Kipling
If </p>
<p>If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don’t give way to hating,
And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise;</p>
<p>If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;</p>
<p>If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: “Hold on”;</p>
<p>If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And - which is more - you’ll be a Man my son!</p>
<p>Stories of redemption- Yes, friend’s son barely (and I mean down to the last day)… barely graduated high school. He went to CC for a year- almost flunking out and was convicted of possession of a restricted drug. (He had been self medicating for ADD but without a dr prescription. ) He went back to school, got on dean’s list and was doing well. Had one more blip along the way when he decided one Feb he was going to drop out and drive to CA from NY. Had a few interesting experiences along the way-some legal issues re a lost driver’s license. But within a few weeks was back home and back in class. Did well enough to transfer to a SUNY with financial aid. Ended up back home again after a semester of doing well, but only because he wanted a specialized program (botany) that the particular school did not offer and he realized that bio was not close enough. He is taking classes, working, and looking for the right program. His story does not have a happy ending (yet) but he is a good kid, doing moderately well, which was a surprise to many. Hang in there.</p>
<p>One of D2’s roommate’s, second semester of junior year (D2 had been abroad first semester) was a girl who was just returning from her third medical leave due to psychiatric reasons. D2 knew who she was prior to being assigned to her, and was a bit skeptical at first, but in the end, she ended up being a very good roommate. I can’t even imagine the roller coaster her parents must have been through with this young lady, going through three medical leaves with her, but they seemed to really be supportive, yet ready to deliver consequences if needed. We met them at move-in and it was very obvious that they had a plan with contingencies, if necessary. They only lived just over an hour away, which made it easier for them to be available if needed (in fact, when they found out how far away we lived, they offered to be D2’s sort of surrogate parent if any emergency arose). </p>
<p>From my perspective, this is just a blip in the radar, that you all learn from in the future. Whenever there is some sort of crisis that is out of character, I think you need to give it some more time to see how he embraces the learning experience from it. It sounds like until this event, you had no reason at all to be concerned about his behavior. It’s not like it’s part of a pattern (at least yet), and kudos to you for treating him like a capable adult and not some damaged piece of goods that needs your constant interference. Some day he will look back on this and thank you for that, even if it means he has to suffer some consequences. </p>
<p>I don’t know how much you have followed Hanna’s postings in the many threads she has contributed to, but she is an amazing example of how kids can turn their lives around, even in the most dire situations.</p>
<p>While I do think it’s a very serious situation, I don’t think you need to project that onto his whole future. Sounds like you and your husband are on the same page, which makes all the difference in the world. Hang in there.</p>
<p>I know of 2 now grown adults who were difficult growing up and slackers in college. Both very successful now. hang in there, OP</p>
<p>I’ve heard that depression in men often manifests itself in anger. Further, depressed people have a tendency to not reach out for help. Also, they are less able to judge people’s reactions to them–they may overreact, which could explain why he went ballistic due to his perceived persecution. (The last part I learned in a medical school class.) Regardless, such a huge change in personality has got to have some psychological basis, as it is clear from the OP’s posts that chewing people out is not typical behavior for her son.</p>
<p>Therefore, it is appropriate for the parents to do the advocating for the son in this case. Also, try to get someone from the school on your son’s side (not just the official advocate, hopefully). Your son should not be receiving any more punishment for underrage drinking than anyone else would, and reasonably yelling at school administrators shouldn’t add to it in light of what is going on. You might think of reaching out to one of the administrators testifying against him. It can’t hurt. </p>
<p>Regardless, I don’t suggest you let things “run their course” with regards to the grades and disciplinary proceedings. Try to be as proactive as possible. The university may be more lenient if they know that the parents care about it.</p>
<p>It sounds like your S continues to engage with you & your H in a positive way, which is GREAT! I agree that administrations tend to be more lenient and exercise their discretion more generously when families show they care rather than are just waiting to see what the ultimate result is.</p>
<p>I wish you well through this tough time. Sounds like you, H & S are in an OK place for now and will be moving forward in the near future. It would likely help the U to make a decision in your S’s favor IF he’s willing to see a counselor, to show that he is willing to work on the issues surrounding the spiral. You may wish to share this with S–most institutions are more willing to favor leniency when the person requesting it is taking steps to improve, including getting medical help, counseling, etc.</p>
<p>If it’s a mood disorder of any sort, a mixed state will look very much like irritability or anxiety. It’s actually a combination of depression and hypomania, so the person will be angry, sometimes aggressive, irritable, and definitely annoying to be around. Also, the moods can change quickly, we were fooled many times by S being very nice and calm for a while. Within a day or 3 a manic period would start after such a moment of seeming equilibrium. So I wouldn’t take the OP’s kid being nice for a while as an indication that all is well, or even getting better. A red flag is the fact that he can’t sleep and stays in PJ’s well into the afternoon. Inability to sleep is a symptom of mood disorder, and a lack of sleep can cause hypomania or mania.</p>
<p>I’d force the kid to agree to treatment or he can’t live there. You’ll notice that the parents giving that kind of advice are those of us who have been there, done that, and have a story of redemption to tell. If it turns out the professionals are able to give S a clean bill of mental health, then great, move on from there.</p>
<p>The tough part about mental illness is that it obviously is not a choice in that no one chooses to be depressed, bipolar, schizophrenic, etc. But, not complying with treatment is a choice. Loved ones MUST do whatever they can to “force” the patient to opt for treatment over illness. In the case of bipolar, one problem is that mania and hypomania is fun. You’re the life of the party, you can party harder than anyone else you attract all kinds of party animals and have lots of crazy fun. They get addicted to the feeling of mania. Also, finding the right doses and medications can be a long process, with plenty of opportunities to be medicated into oblivion, which is NOT fun. So they go off meds and the whole thing starts again.</p>
<p>So if your kid is staying at home doing nothing he could be getting much worse. Insist upon treatment, and if it turns out he doesn’t need meds or therapy, fine, nothing will be lost. I still say search his room and belongings and don’t trust anything he says. Yet. He may be pulling the wool over your eyes (and his own) big-time. The desire for moms to believe that our gut is telling us that he’s okay, is very powerful, and renders our “gut” useless. No one wants to believe their kiddo has a mental illness. We had never seen such a thing in our family, so don’t believe the suggestion that you need a family history. There may be none.</p>
<p>As I said back in my other post, I think the student needs to go to therapy, mainly because he needs to get some insight into why he reacted the way he did and some better people skills so that he does not overreact in the future. </p>
<p>As to whether or not there is diagnosable mental illness of any kind of serious nature, this would be impossible to ascertain 1. second hand through a parent’s version of a story, even in person. 2. On a message board. </p>
<p>I do think some counseling ought to be involved in the “you can stay in our house” agreement, if only because son’s response is incredibly immature, and some reflection after a self-sabotaging outburst is always a good idea. But it is also not necessarily the reaction of somebody with mental illness.</p>
<p>^^^^^exactly. Also, if you start with therapy first, a good therapist can eventually help effect change, or, he/she will insist upon a psych evaluation in order to rule out a need for medication. (The therapist can not prescribe drugs, but should know when the need for medication should be suspected.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Not all therapists will insist on a psych evaluation. Also, there are some (not many) psychiatrists who do therapy, too, or short-term behavior modification, so someone could get a health professional who could prescribe drugs, if needed.</p>
<p>I would strongly encourage you and your husband to seek professional help and advice on the best way to get your son into treatment. If he’s suffering from depression or anxiety he may need medication to give him some relief. I would not try to get him to understand his responsibility in all of this because it may be that the anxiety and/or depression or whatever is going on with him emotionally may render him out of control of his behavior.<br>
While it’s difficult to watch your child struggling, it’s very important to get him the help he needs. These kinds of things don’t just go away on their own. There are many, many kids who go through all kinds of things in these years: you are not alone. But you may need to try different approaches before you hit on one that works for your son. As for his future…as someone once told me “There are many paths.”</p>
<p>Yes, there are many paths. My kids have NOT taken traditional paths. They have been plagued by medical issues for more than the past decade. Fortunately, we were able to partner with a tremendously empathetic doc who would not give up on them, even tho D was asked to leave HS after her junior year. It was very painful for her and us, but we all weathered it and she entered CC after getting her GED and has gone on to transfer to her dream U, but it was NOT the path any of us would have chosen for her. As a plus, she is stronger and more resiliant for all she has been through, but it has been a bumpy road for all of us and her health issues still flare up, to challenge all of us.</p>
<p>Hang in there and work with YOUR counselor so you & H can figure out the best strategies & approaches for both of you & your S. It’s so important to find a counselor you can work well with. There are many good ones out there.</p>
<p>I don’t really see how you can force someone into therapy. (I realize you can have someone involuntarily committed to an inpatient facility if they pose an imminent danger to themselves or others, but that does not apply to the OP’s son.) Has anyone here actually done that and had success? I mean, yes, maybe you could force a young person, under threat of kicking him or her out of the house, to keep an appointment. But how do you force someone to really work with the therapist – to open up and engage in treatment?</p>
<p>I have thought since our DS was a sophomore in high school that he could benefit from therapy, but he wanted no part of it. He did agree to see a psychiatrist for two or three sessions during his junior year of HS, but they did not hit it off, and he absolutely refused to go back or to try a different therapist.</p>
<p>It was not until this past summer, before he was about to start his junior year in college, that he finally decided that this was something he was willing to try. (I think he read a thread on a message board frequented by young people about how helpful therapy can be to people who are in emotional pain.) We found him a therapist with whom he really clicked, and he has been in therapy since then. I wouldn’t say he is cured, but we see real progress. Saying that feels like bad luck; I realize he could backslide! But he has been with this therapist for months now, and also recently started seeing a psychiatrist who prescribed medication. So not a success story because we’re still in the middle, but – so far, so good.</p>
<p>But until DS was ready and willing to go to therapy, I just did not see how forcing him would be beneficial. I tried very hard to convince him to give therapy a try, and I think that my talking to him may have helped. For example, I would tell him how much therapy helped me in my late 20’s, and how I wished I had done it ten years earlier. I think that all my talking about the benefits of therapy might have slowly sunk in, so that when he read comments from kids his age on a message board saying how helpful therapy could be, he was receptive.</p>
<p>Anyway, it sounds to me as if the OP is dealing with this well, and that forcing the issue of therapy with ultimatums would simply not work.</p>
<p>My younger D was not “herself.” She was being rude and mean to her parents and pretty much ended up with few friends. I had no answers. So I got on the phone and through lots of researching found a number of therapists for her. We finally forced her to go where the therapist said to us, if she doesn’t want to be hear, I can take your money, but it will be a bust. The alternative was to give therapist her cell phone number and hope she changes her mind. In the mean time, we try to be really consistent in our reactions to her mood, consequences for choices and not enabling bad behavior. So far, it’s working but let’s face it, if a kid doesn’t want to “do” therapy, you can hardly force them. The best we can do is get plenty of help for us in terms of parenting, and that seems to be helping the situation and hopefully allowing D to see we really are on her side.</p>
<p>"I think you should do something fast. I dropped out a couple years ago from a decent university, like your son and all I do is watch movies, listen to music, and sleep in my Dad’s apartment. And I don’t see the situation changing anytime soon. Maybe one of these days I will go to the nearest movie theater and try to get a job there, but other than that I’m not motivated to do anything and have no life plans. "</p>
<p>loserman, what do you think the OP should do? Something like what? Is there something you think your parents could have, or should be doing for you?</p>