<p>Hudson Valley, the reason that IS is less than market is that taxpayers subsidize it. NY taxpayers pay higher taxes than many, if not all, of the states you compared it with. I dont advocate autonomy for SUNYs until such time as they not only show they are willing to take money from the state, but be transparent and fair with dealing with NY residents.</p>
<p>kayf -- Seems to me that the most recent tuition increases are a case of the SUNYs subsidizing the state. SUNYs: 10%, The General Fund: 90%. </p>
<p>I do agree with you that a lot more trasparency is called for. But I see the roadblock being the Governor's Office and the Legislature, not the necessarily the SUNY administrators (although there are no doubt political operatives in the SUNY bureaucracy who provide cover for the political class).</p>
<p>HV, I dont agree with you. I assume the SUNYs still recieve more $$ from the state than the tuition increase. What the holdback was, in effect, reducing what the state gives the SUNYs.</p>
<p>If you are saying that the SUNYs would have no issue releasing admit data, IS v. OS, that is interesting, and all I can say is I hope constituent pressure would change that.</p>
<p>Chris2k5,</p>
<p>"I hope you realize the reason why the tuition is so slow is because the schools aren't top notch compared to other state schools out there.</p>
<p>Stony Brook may have some awesome graduate programs but have you visited? These schools aren't "flagship"."</p>
<p>Yeah, Chris2k5 is right on. You might want to be careful what you wish for kayf. If NY raises the cost, then I don't know why anyone would leave to go to your state system. You don't have any flagship universities and the system is underfunded. With a drop in OOS applicants and students, there goes your national reputation and networking on a regional scale. I could see the new commercial, "SUNY system: It's fine for staying around here."</p>
<p>I think there are a number of issues that must be weighed -- but first the SUNYs must disclose admit data -- then all parties, including the public can comment. At the end of the day there is a cost/benefit of OOS. If OOS are lowering the average SATs of the school, that is a cost that must be considered too.</p>
<p>^ You are making accusations without sufficent proof. There is nothing there to bring this case to a trial. :)</p>
<p>Again, if everyone takes a look at kayf's posts. You will see the following:</p>
<p>"I think"
"I assume"
"I believe"</p>
<p>These are opinions, not facts so why should anyone side with kayf? Kayf is essientially making accusations that SUNY schools are unfair without ANY proof whatsoever.</p>
<p>Kayf, if you have any credibility, please provide us with your source. Is your source a PI? Is your source on paper? No, obviously not. Your so called proof is "I assume"...</p>
<p>Sorry to burst your bubble but no one cares for opinions when it comes to these cases.</p>
<p>No one is talking about bringing this to trial. </p>
<p>I am asking IS people to demand transparency. Of course there is no proof -- SUNYs dont disclose anything relevant to this other than average admit stats and rack tuition. We dont know admit stats by IS v. OOS and we dont know scholarships IS v. OOS.</p>
<p>kayf, please find some solid evidence before you complain because it is simply making you look foolish.</p>
<p>You can't just complain about something you know nothing about.</p>
<p>Many of our neighbors have applied to SUNY. On their behalf, I ask for transparency and fairness.</p>
<p>SUNYs should disclose, by institution, SATs, GPAs IS and OSS and and breakout of any institutional Finaid. Residents should demand this from their elected officials.</p>
<p>The only reason why OOS tuition is low is because if they were high, who in their right minds would choose a SUNY over other state schools like UConn, Rutgers, etc?</p>
<p>Those other schools have better campuses and better academic programs.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Many of our neighbors have applied to SUNY. On their behalf, I ask for transparency and fairness.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>your concern for your neighbors' children might come across as more sincere if you actually seemed concerned about the quality of education offered by the sunys. however, you have repeatedly dismissed attempts to point out that continued budget CUTS will threaten the ability of the sunys to maintain the quality of their education. the budget cuts are FACT. but you repeatedly find reasons to dismiss the significance of them. </p>
<p>transparency and fairness will do your neighbors children little good if a further budget cuts and continued state retention of tuition increases significantly undermines the value of a suny education. you refer to "cutting costs" as if that has nothing to do with the education offered. cutting costs means increased class size, fewer class offerings, less money for financial aide, less money to maintain facilities, less money to maintain staffing and faculty. </p>
<p>i urge everyone else reading to recognize the importance of the budget issue -- its not too late to contact your legislators about next year's budget -- there is talk of yet FURTHER BUDGET CUTS being made. any debate over who should or shouldn't be admitted to a suny with what stats will become a lot less meaningful if the quality of a suny education is allowed to be undermined by further and further huge budget cuts!!</p>
<p>NY being one of the largest states both financially and population wise actually has a rather dismal school system in terms of quality. </p>
<p>NY should have it's equivalent of the UC system but the SUNY does not live up to that, i dont think this has anything to do with the amount of OOS students getting accepted EVEN if they are getting accepted with lower stats ( which i do not believe)</p>
<p>But the budget cuts that IAMHERE is mentioning probably play the biggest role in this. In terms of campus alone the UCs are in better shape and CA is in an economic hole so deep there is no way to dig themselves out. </p>
<p>Better financing for the SUNYs would allow them to also attract and retain better faculty or more desirable faculty (Nobel Prize winners and such)</p>
<p>I agree with IAMHERE regarding the budget cuts the SUNYs go through. </p>
<p>Being the state schools of one of the largest states they should be better than they are.</p>
<p>as an OOS transfer there are no Scholarships and no financial aid offered form the school directly to me, my EFC is very low. </p>
<p>Only OOS freshman probably qualify for some type of aid which is not much.</p>
<p>My highly qualified OOS high school senior with amazing stats has not been offered any scholarship money from the SUNYs that she's been accepted to. She's been accepted at both Binghamton and Stony Brook.</p>
<p>We're not really expecting any as it was my experience with my older daughter when she went through the application process that most of the academic scholarship money is offered by the private schools which of course makes sense as they cost much more.</p>
<p>Can any of you New Yorkers give any opinion of St. John's University? My daughter has been offered full tuition with 1/2 board there....we don't know much about it and she only applied as they had a pharmacy program. Now she's decided to start out as a chem major. I know that the admission requirements are much, much lower than Binghamton.....but it is an attractive offer. Also they have campuses in Paris and Rome. We haven't visited ...... any opinions out there?</p>
<p>re st john's -- i assume you are talking about the queens campus?</p>
<p>i don't know a lot, but i think it has the reputation as mostly being a commuter school -- ie a relatively small percentage of students live on campus. your d may want to look into that -- both in terms of how that might effect her college experience and the likelihood that she might at some point be looking for off-campus housing. also, being in queens -- you may have some of the disadvantages of an urban campus without what manhattan may have to offer. she should consider how comfortable she'd feel reaching out beyond the immediate area of the school to take advantage of what nyc has to offer.</p>
<p>if considering it, definitely visit before deciding.</p>
<p>but congratulations -- sounds like your d will some wonderful choices!</p>
<p>iamhere -- Thanks for your St. John's assessment. We will visit because the offer is so generous. She has a bunch more schools that have offered her money that we haven't visited.....it will be a fun but difficult choice for her. My daughter is such a fine person and a stellar student....we're really excited for her!</p>
<p>AdvicePlease - Great offer from St John's - congrats to your D! Was she accepted for pharmacy? Just make sure she knows that she can't transfer into their PharmD at a later date if she decides to start as a chem major! Several posters have found this out the hard way!</p>
<p>kayf - I don't know that IS students are getting left behind over tuition money or not. I do know that some of the SUNY's, like Geneseo, are definitely very tough to get into even for our top 10 grads and that there is definite overcrowding at schools like Cortland. I think the standard "in-state preference", which so many public university systems use, is lacking in NY. I have never seen or heard of it in relation to SUNY anyway. </p>
<p>In my D's case, she was surprised to find that her one SUNY option, UBuffalo, gives no preference for instate kids for the professional program she's interested in (she was accepted in the pre-prof program and will have to reapply). This was not the case for her other public option, University of Kentucky, where she would also be considered instate and which has a stated acceptance rate (I think 85%) for instate. That was also the way things work at all the other public schools she looked at OOS - Rutgers, UNC, UConn, etc. Perhaps the thing to lobby for is a stated percentage/preference factor for instate applicants to ensure that they have acess to an affordable option close to home. As Governor Patterson is looking to add all kinds of new taxes to close the budget shortfall, taxpayers might as well ask for something in return!</p>
<p>buffalo's entering class for fall 2008 had 7% of students from oos</p>
<p>as of the fall of 2007, geneseo had 1.3% of its students from oos (that's one ** point ** three)</p>
<p>I received 20k/year from St. Johns and am waiting to hear on FAFSA. St. Johns is a good school, Governor Cuomo graduated from St. Johns. I am waiting to hear from Binghamton but if I don't get into Binghamton I think I would prefer that over Stoney Brook and I was accepted at Stony Brook as well.</p>