<p>If you expected to be admitted to Michigan based on previous classes, this year was fundamentally different. The reason is simple. Supply (of available seats) declined by over 1,000. Demand (applications) increased. Both of these factors made it more difficult to be admitted this year. This trend will continue for about 5 more years due to campus construction and renovations.</p>
<p>i honestly cant believe any of you waste your time aruging with Runner. Take it from me "hes always right, about everything, all the time". Whichs precisely why hes on the UMich wait list.</p>
<p>Chibears...NO. I don't believe what you said.</p>
<p>Sorry, i'm having none of it. Michigan IS different from the Ivies. If it wasn't why the hell would i have applied? I didn't apply to any ivies, not even cornell....because i knew i had no chance there and it would be a waste of my time and money. Michigan is no ivy...and i'm sure you guys agree with that....and based on that statistics from previous years, Michigan has accepted at least 50% of the applicants, whearas ivies (apart from Cornell) hardly accept more than 15% of the applicants. </p>
<p>And if you still think that Michigan's admissions process is similar to the Ivies, then why have people like CC Runner and others been waitlisted and those with considerable less stats been accepted? This makes no sense at all and contradicts what you have said.</p>
<p>The bottom line is.....how can anyone defend michigan's admission process after all that's happened?</p>
<p>Because they are loyal to the University and what it has done for them that they feel they should stick up for it, no matter what the circumstance is.</p>
<p>I would like to see verification of the figure that up to half of deferred applicants are usually admitted. In one sense, it's not relevant, because a college or university is not obligated to duplicate its admit patterns from year to year. But I've seen that figure bandied about here and it doesn't ring true for me. </p>
<p>I think two things bear repeating: </p>
<p>First, there may not be room for every great applicant. No matter how carefully his or her app is reviewed, not all great applicants can get in. </p>
<p>Second, no one ever knows, honestly, how their own app stacked up against those who were also vying for admission. You can broadcast your test scores and GPAs out there for comparison--and this deserves a caveat, too, which I'll get to in a minute--but you really don't know how other aspects of your application were regarded. You know even less about how the applications of your peers were regarded. You haven't read their essays, their recommendations, you don't know the history Michigan may have with their school, etc.</p>
<p>The caveat about the GPAs and test scores is this: use some caution when comparing yourself to the information others have volunteered. People aren't always truthful. Nor do they accurately calculate their Michigan GPA.</p>
<p>Anyway, kookie is right, and I'm terribly grateful for her input. They hired readers specifically to read applications. These people do nothing else but read apps. If they're not reading your application, I'd like to know what they are doing with their time. LOL</p>
<p>Ok hoedown....you have your opinions....i'm not gonna argue, again lol. </p>
<p>However, why did Michigan have to wait so long before telling us, "sorry, you're waitlisted". That's what ****ed me off the most. </p>
<p>Also, what's wrong with the admissions office? I don't think they do their job properly. Basically, what i've found out is that if your application is incomplete the first time you send it, your chances of being admitted are pretty much screwed. They take an eternity to update your application, even though they have received all the stuff ages ago. They mess around with your application, say its incomplete even though they have all the stuff, and just waste time. In this case, its not the student's fault at all....the admissions office is already treating you unfairly because of its sheer incompetence. </p>
<p>One thing i agree with hoedown....I also wonder what they are doing with their free time. One things for sure....they're not making good use of it.</p>
<p>a2wolves...its not about being loyal to the university. If you look at my post record, you'll see that I've been more than willing to call out the "U" when its been lacking. I'm sticking up for Michigan in this case because you guys are unfairly attacking it, without any sort of evidence beyond your own sob stories.</p>
<p>I think you're mistaking Wolverine Access for the workings of the admissions department. They open the mail the day they get it. Just because your WA account doesn't read "complete" doesn't mean they're kicking the mailbag around like a rugby ball for three weeks.</p>
<p>Your comment confused me, actually. Given the incredibly high number of web apps, and the number of application elements that come separate from the application itself (even hard copy apps), most applications are incomplete when they are submitted.</p>
<p>I understand you're ****ed. </p>
<p>I don't see the value in me explaining for the umpteenth time why selective colleges can't and don't inform all applicants immediately after their apps are complete and evaluated. </p>
<p>Implying that the admissions counselors and directors and readers aren't working hard? That is pretty low, in my opinion.</p>
<p>CCRunner, I didn't see your comment until now. How frustrating for you. Sometimes mistakes happen--although from what I've seen, the process and record-keeping is pretty robust. </p>
<p>Michigan (and I assume other schools, as well) "budgets" for errors in the final numbers. They never, ever want to be in the position to not be able to admit someone for the solitary reason of an application being misfiled or something being mistyped. They always make sure there is room at the end of the admit process to take those students who should have and would have been admitted if it weren't for the glitch.</p>
<p>Therefore, the decision most likely did not come about solely because of the essay going astray. I guess that's small comfort, and confusing if you felt you were a strong applicant.</p>
<p>CCRunner: 5 A's and 1 B isn't enough because other students are getting 6 A's and no B's in harder courses. Again, your grades are average for the applicant pool and they wanted something that set you apart. I assure you I'm not making this stuff up.
Nick: If you read my post, I did not compare Michigan admissions to Ivy admissions. I elevated the Ivies above Michigan by comparing a waitlist decision at a high Ivy comparable to a shoo-in at Michigan; more of a contrast than a comparison. What you said is perfect proof. If you didn't even think you had enough of a shot at Cornell, a peer institution to Michigan in almost every sense of the word, why did you think you "deserved" to get into Michigan? You guys just make no sense with all this emotion goin on.</p>
<p>chibearsfan....5A's and 1 B at a Top school is much better than 6A's and no B's at a mediocre school. If you still don't get that, read this. Would you say 5A's and 1 B at UMich is worse than 6A's and no B's at Rutgers? I would say absolutely not coz UMich is much much harder than Rutgers. Again, what you're saying doesn't make sense. This shows that UMich's grading system has a flaw. </p>
<p>Getting 5A's and 1 B in AP Courses is above average...not average. It would be average for a school like UPenn, Harvard, Yale...but not UMich.</p>
<p>Mightynick, you are confusing a few concepts. Yes, Michigan's student body is weaker than Harvard's. It is probably slightly weaker than Penn's. It is roughly equal to Cornell's and Northwestern's. It always has been. At Michigan, the average entering freshman has a 3.75 GPA taking roughly 4 AP classes their senior year. So yes, getting 5 As and a B in AP classes at a competitve high school is pretty much average at Michigan too. The difference between Michigan and the other schools mentioned above is that for every 10 qualified candidates who applied to Michigan in the past, 7-8 would get in. In contrast, for every 10 qualified candidates who apply to those other schools I mentioned above, probably 2-4 would get in. Either way, there are no guarantees, unless if you consider 70% to be a guarantee. This year, Michigan has been, predictibly, more selective than usual. I would say this year, for every 10 qualified candidates, probably only 5 got in. Next year will probably be even tougher.</p>
<p>Mightynick, the statistics are clearly not on your side. If you're going to make a claim about "what's average" at Michigan contrary to what everyone else has posted, you should probably supplement your claims with statistics. Also, if you read my other threads, you'd notice I agree wholeheartedly that 5 A's and 1 B at a top school is harder than 6 A's and no B's. Does UMich's grading system have a flaw? No. The system is just fine. They consider that grades that matter if you ask me. As to whether they correctly consider the difficulty of a school alongside these grades is up for debate, and I would say probably not. But again, we're not discussing whether a student deserves to get into the University, we're discussing whether this person deserves to get into the university given its admissions standards. Whether or not we have the right standards is an entirely different discussion. What I say makes sense, I promise. Just take time to read it, buddy.</p>
<p>You cannot simply make the generalization that 5 A's and 1 B is average, when you don't look at the difficulty of the school. The average SAT of my school is 1400 and no one has a 4.0 UW. I assure you achieving a GPA of 3.83 at my school is a much more difficult feat than achieving a 3.83 at a public school.</p>
<p>And, thanks MightyNick for defending me, but, I've realized all argument is futile at this point. So, I'm done with this conversation.</p>
<p>yeah maybe you're right CCRunner...its time to end this discussion. After all, we're both stupid and make unfounded comments dont we? ;)</p>
<p>Yes chibearsfan, you're right i'm wrong. I'm stupid and i shouldn't be arguing with you right? :)</p>
<p>You guys really need to get a life. I thought I could get some information on this forum but it seems like it's become a 6th grade girls slumber party. Why don't those of you who want to debate about how good your school is do it elsewhere. If you guys are worried about grades you should shut off the computer and start studying.</p>
<p>you got a problem dude? maybe you can avoid this thread if you don't like reading it. </p>
<p>btw what's the point of studying now? we've already got our decisions.</p>
<p>CCRunner: I agree, i'm sure a 3.83 at your school is much harder than a 4.0 at most public schools. If you read my post you probably would have noticed that.</p>
<p>Nick: Some people study just to learn...crazy isn't it. Maybe the reason you're so discontent with your college decision is because you've put so much weight on the decision itself. Not worth studying anymore? Perhaps if you were more concerned with aquiring knowledge rather than going to a certain school, you'd be fine with whatever decisions you got because you'll grow as a person anywhere you go. It's just a values thing I guess.</p>
<p>For the first time, i actually agree with you chibears.</p>
<p>im definately on chibears side too- cuz he said hed take me haha. And i realized I was supporting ur point with the 1% thing, but I figured I'd say it anyway. I'd be very curious about your findings on admissions factors- you would think schools would have already considered something like that.</p>
<p>On another note, I got my WL letter (mail) from Michigan today and it was different from the wolverineaccess one. I was almost shocked to see that they were requesting senior fall grades (which they cite as one of their main factors in taking kids off the WL) when in the Defer letter they implied that they would look at them to make their final decision.</p>