The Campus Rape Myth

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First, I would like to express my whole-hearted agreement with the statement that when going out partying/drinking, men are more worried about being accused of rape than women are of being raped.

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<p>What's your point? Most people are more afraid of flying in planes than driving cars, though they are much more likely to be injured in a car accident than a plane accident. Logically and statistically, more innocent women are raped than innocent men are accused of rape, unless you want to argue that not only are all rape cases against innocent men, but that women make a practice of accusing men of rape even if they haven't had sex.</p>

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Guy and girl are trashed.
Girl isn't a looker.
Both wake up the next morning, guy is horrified.
Will his claim that the girl raped him go through?

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<p>Frankly: if a man penetrates someone else, it's hard to claim that there wasn't consent on his part. And consent is the key word here.</p>

<p>Honestly, I think a lot of you misunderstand what rape laws involve. The laws don't say having sex with someone who is drunk is rape, or that drunk people can never give consent. Neither does it say that any person can accuse any other person of rape and that's that.</p>

<p>It basically says that "not saying no" due to being in a disabled mental state (i.e. drugged) is not the same as giving consent.</p>

<p>Hm.</p>

<p>I know that if I took a survey, I would be considered a rape victim, but what happened wasn't rape in my book at all. So I understand what she is talking about.</p>

<p>I think that... even though a person could have made better desicions, it doesn't excuse AT ALL them being raped. Saying a girl could have not drinken or not worn a skirt is like saying a person could have not gone into a bad part of town at night. It may have been wiser to make a different decision, but it doesn't make it any more okay that a person was robbed or raped or mugged or killed.</p>

<p>I'm just waiting for Rose O'donnel to get on this thread.. pfffttt laammmee.</p>

<p>Example: Duke!</p>

<p>what are you talking about?</p>

<p>and are you referring to the duke hockey players and the stripper? we already found out she was lying just like a lot of girls do. At my school, some girls lie about their rape because a lot of people want to get a certain fraternity kicked out.</p>

<p>I want them kicked out, too, but I would lie to police about rape.</p>

<p>quitejaded, that's what I was talking about.. and why this thread is dumb. Sure rape is bad.. but it happens a lot less than people make it out to. Guys get raped too btw, where's the article on that?</p>

<p>Burgler, you are right. There are articles about it, but they are as obscure as this article. You won't see it all up in the news unless Bill Orielly wants to talk about those lesbian gangs again.</p>

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Guys get raped too btw, where's the article on that?

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My women's college made all first-year students watch a documentary on males who got raped...</p>

<p>CAn you ask your professors why its still called wOMEN'S studies when they want men to take these classes and claim that its about equailty for everyone??</p>

<p>Grow up. Men and Women's rights aren't a zero sum game. Both can have rights and concerns - it's not like one takes away from the other.</p>

<p>kelseyg</p>

<p>5% of rape claims end in convinction in law courts because like I said, "innocent until proven guilty"</p>

<p>university disciplinary hearings are not courts of law, and quite frankly, are usually guilty until proven innocent.</p>

<p>Whenever this topic comes up, people always like to bring in the first hand stories. The problem is that these first hand stories are not like the cases I'm talking about. If it takes talking to a friend or two and couple days thought to realize you've been assaulted, then quite frankly I highly doubt you truly were, and I feel that these cases detract from the horrible trauma that some women have been through.</p>

<p>P.S. Have you been around people who drink alot because trust me, the things I've seen some of my friends do and heard them say when they were "blackout drunk" make me question if they are telling the truth when they say they don't remember it.</p>

<p>I followed the Duke case carefully and was a frequent poster at Durham-in-Wonderland (KC Johnson's blog) and Liestoppers (affiliated forum on the Duke Lacrosse Hoax).</p>

<p>My take on the problem with rape accusations is that the scales of justice are unbalanced. If a female accuses a male of rape, it's on his record, he gets cuffed, fingerprinted, DNA sample, has to pay legal bills and the record of the accusation is out there forever. If it's a false accusation, what's the downside to the female? Nothing in comparison. If you compound that with a corrupt prosecutor (and there are plenty of them out there - just look at all of the exonerations from the Innocence Project), then you could get thrown in jail for 30 years for a crime that never existed.</p>

<p>I've read the studies on the 50% number of rape accusations are false. And how bad the studies put out by women's groups are.</p>

<p>The Duke Lacrosse players are suing the police department, city and Duke University for large amounts of money. </p>

<p>Duke</a> Lawsuit
[url=<a href="http://durhamwonderland.blogspot.com/%5DDurham-in-Wonderland%5B/url"&gt;http://durhamwonderland.blogspot.com/]Durham-in-Wonderland[/url&lt;/a&gt;]
[url=<a href="http://liestoppers.blogspot.com/%5DLieStoppers%5B/url"&gt;http://liestoppers.blogspot.com/]LieStoppers[/url&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p>

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5% of rape claims end in convinction in law courts because like I said, "innocent until proven guilty"

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<p>Of course. I brought up that point to go against the idea that a man accused of rape will most probably be convicted - an idea the statistic disproves.</p>

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Whenever this topic comes up, people always like to bring in the first hand stories. The problem is that these first hand stories are not like the cases I'm talking about. If it takes talking to a friend or two and couple days thought to realize you've been assaulted, then quite frankly I highly doubt you truly were, and I feel that these cases detract from the horrible trauma that some women have been through.

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<p>Who are you referring to? No one mentioned the situation you bring up here, and setting up and knocking down strawmen isn't a convincing argument.</p>

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P.S. Have you been around people who drink alot because trust me, the things I've seen some of my friends do and heard them say when they were "blackout drunk" make me question if they are telling the truth when they say they don't remember it.

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<p>Yes, I have. I've never had any trouble telling if someone is very drunk. I do agree that often people exaggerate how drunk they are - but the earlier point said "How am I supposed to know if someone is blackout drunk?" It's easy - they're blacked out or about to. The question wasn't, "How do the courts know if someone was blackout drunk?"</p>

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My take on the problem with rape accusations is that the scales of justice are unbalanced. If a female accuses a male of rape, it's on his record, he gets cuffed, fingerprinted, DNA sample, has to pay legal bills and the record of the accusation is out there forever. If it's a false accusation, what's the downside to the female? Nothing in comparison.

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<p>Surely you can't believe that. Rape victims often feel tremendous shame and self-loathing. Additionally, as this thread proves, there is a strong sentiment that women are often just making it up for fun. Many women are raped by acquaintances, people they (and others) trust. If a woman is accusing a man who is, in the eyes of the community, normal - church going, maybe a father (maybe her father or relative), the community is going to side with him. Do you really believe that there are no downsides to accusing someone of rape?</p>

<p>What do you propose to fix this alleged unbalance? I agree that it's a tough issue, but I think the laws do the best they can. What happened to the Duke players was terrible, but I don't think it's indicative of some police/women/courts conspiracy against accused rapists.. I think, and general consensus seems to be that the problem with the Duke case was that the media blew it way out of proportion and decided that those young men were guilty, when the courts (and only the courts) should have been passing judgment on the case.</p>

<p>If you could cite a verifiable source for the 50% statistic, I'd be interested in seeing it. The site I linked was a woman's group website that linked to statistics reported in respected journals such as the Guardian. I would not trust figures simply stated on a men's or women's rights website, which is why I did not cite any.</p>

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<p>What do you think is tougher to take? Shame and self-loathing or a
million in legal bills, the threat of 30 years in jail (for some it's
been more than a threat), loss of job, public humiliation, etc. The
accuser gets her name shielded in the press. What is the downside of a
false accusation? Do some research on the matter? Is it a felony? Is
it a misdemeanor? Is it prosecuted?</p>

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<p>In comparison to what a falsely accused male faces, yes.</p>

<p>Where does Harold Allen go to get back his reputation?</p>

<p>AG</a> drops charge for 32-year-old rape - Boston.com</p>

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<p>The current set of lawsuits alleges a conspiracy by Duke University,
Durham Police Department and the City of Durham in railroading the
Lacrosse players. The media shares a lot of the blame but the case
should have been tossed by the police immediately.</p>

<p>I read two studies. One was your typical well-researched peer-reviewed
study. The other was a study of military personnel. These were well
discussed at Durham-In-Wonderland in either late 2005 or early 2007.</p>

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<p>Did you read the complete sources?</p>

<p>It would take me several hours to go through the posts in DIH for the
last three years. I would suggest asking Professor William L Anderson
for a link to these studies as he may have them at hand. His webpage
is at William</a> Anderson: Archives</p>

<p>The problem with tilting the scales of justice towards a particular
group is that there are some that will take advantage of the tilt.
It reminds me of the problem with moral hazard in insurance.</p>

<p>I found the first study:</p>

<p><a href="http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?p=www.sexcriminals.com%2Flibrary%2Fdoc-1002-1.doc&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz2&x=wrt&u=www.sexcriminals.com/library/doc-1002-1.doc&d=OR3pfxIeOXni&icp=1&.intl=us%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?p=www.sexcriminals.com%2Flibrary%2Fdoc-1002-1.doc&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz2&x=wrt&u=www.sexcriminals.com/library/doc-1002-1.doc&d=OR3pfxIeOXni&icp=1&.intl=us&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
What do you think is tougher to take? Shame and self-loathing or a
million in legal bills, the threat of 30 years in jail (for some it's
been more than a threat), loss of job, public humiliation, etc. The
accuser gets her name shielded in the press. What is the downside of a
false accusation? Do some research on the matter? Is it a felony? Is
it a misdemeanor? Is it prosecuted?

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</p>

<p>Please reread my comment, and yours. You said the downside to a female accuser is comparatively "nothing". I think there definitely is a downside - I didn't argue that accusing someone of rape is worse than being an innocent accused of rape, because that would be a ridiculous argument and I don't believe it. It's really not a zero-sum game and I don't understand why issues like this are often considered as such.</p>

<p>I agree with your comments about how the system could be made better.</p>

<p>That seems like an interesting study, but 109 cases seems like an incredibly small sample size to me considering the breadth of the problem.</p>

<p>"blackout drunk" doesn't mean you completely pass out and don't know anything that's going on. I've not remembered things I said or did while I was drunk, but I never passed out during those times. I was just really drunk. At the time, you're awake but later on, there a blacked out part of your memory. "I said what? No effing way! I did? crap." </p>

<p>As for men being raped, it does happen. Even though men must get an erection for it to happen. Haven't you ever seen a guy get a hard-on when he really didn't want to, like in class or in public somewhere? It's the same sort of thing that happens then.</p>

<p>Duke lacrosse accuser graduates from NCCU:
Summa</a> cum loony - Columns</p>

<p>Where are the Duke kids who were essentially kicked out of school? Still recovering from things that they didn't deserve.</p>

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If a woman is blackout drunk, the law states she cannot give consent.

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I am surprised that's an actual law. It seems sort of sexist towards women in that it has a sort of protectionist mentality behind it asserting that women cannot, or are not responsible enough, to protect themselves. If you think about it, it's a lot like how colleges used to treat male and female students differently in the name of protecting female students...</p>

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As for men being raped, it does happen.

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True, but there aren't nearly the same sort of repercussions for doing this... look at Debra Lafave. Whether or not this is fair is debatable, though. According to science, there are obvious reasons for why raping a male has different legal consequences than does raping a female.</p>

<p>P.S.
If anything, rapes are, in general, under reported. I am pretty sure that's a fact too...</p>

<p>Newjack, I agree that it is sort of sexist in the name of "protection" but it's the same sort of thing like how a 17 year old technically can't give consent to have sex either, but a 18 year old can. It's supposed to be "protecting a child" when really, most 17 year olds don't really need to be protected from anything, at least not anymore than an 18 year old would.</p>

<p>I think crying rape when you regret doing something while drunk is pathetic. Everyone's done something stupid they regret while they were drunk (I said some dumb stuff while drunk that I totally did not remember saying the next day but it apparently ****ed off one of my friends that I said it); just because you did something a little more stupid than most (have sex with a stranger, etc) doesn't mean you were anyway forced into it. Just means you were being a stupid drunk. Ruining someone else's life isn't worth it to make yourself feel better about it.</p>

<p>AULostChick makes a very valid point: I have gotten so blacked out I could remember maybe 5 minutes of a night before, having drunk a relatively middling amount, and had nights where I drank myself under the table yet remembered everything. And in the midst of those "blackout" nights, I'm told I acted relatively normal (for how much I had drunk, which was a fair bit, but not particularly much) - had I not told my friends that I remembered basically nothing of the night they all swore they would've thought I was basically just a bit tipsy.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, memory works in strange ways, and it's not often obvious when someone is blackout - at least in my experience.</p>