<p>There is no such thing as “date rape”. More than 80% of ALL rapes are between people who already know each other. Either there is penetration without consent, or there isn’t. The law makes no distinction about “dates”, and good thing, too. </p>
<p>(I think people often confuse “rape” with “forcible rape” - actually, in most states, there are at least four degrees of rape).</p>
<p>mini,
Did you threaten to stop paying your D’s tuition bills if they had more than 2 drinks or easy sex in college? How about if they dared to attend a frat party?</p>
<p>The weekender/cooler reactions cracked me up. Here on CC I was chastised for forbidding my kids to attend co-ed sleepovers in high school. I had no idea I was the one who was out of step with the times on that one.</p>
<p>We had those “away formals” in college, as we called them. Hotel rooms were rented (as they are for high school proms in some places, too, I understand). Students had sex with their dates or they didn’t. I don’t see how that is any of your business given they are adults.</p>
<p>The coolers look like girlish art projects. When I was 18, the drinking age was 18 in my state, so its hard for me to get too worked up over the idea of bringing drinks to a party.</p>
<p>I do not know anything about fraternity. But D. was in sorority despite the fact that she did not plan on it. It was great and very positive experience, including unforgettable trip to Miami, FL to National. She is still in very close contact with her sorority sisters after graduating last May. Everything was beyond than we expected. D’s sorority did not live in sorority house.</p>
<p>“I don’t see how that is any of your business given they are adults.”</p>
<p>It’s my business because I have to pay for it.</p>
<p>Anyway, Smithview, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to hijack your thread. I posted my original comment about the cooler issue involving my daughter only to point out that Greek life can bring up situations that you might not want for your young adult, who is still learning, growing, and developing values. And, you might be surprised how your S reacts to the group mentality that develops. It’s a little scarey.</p>
<p>Re:** the coolers**. I don’t have a problem with hostess gifts, if you will, for one’s formal date, but I’d advise my underage daughter to buy a cooler, paint it, and fill it with Dr. Pepper, beef jerky, Doritos, etc. that young men enjoy on road trips. Anyone who has a problem with that is not her friend. It’s an excellent litmus test.</p>
<p>"“Every U.S. President and Vice President, except two in each office, born since the first social fraternity was founded in 1825 have been members of a fraternity.”"</p>
<p>This whole list has been debunked. Just to point out the most obvious flaw, Barack Obama was not in a fraternity in college; neither was Jimmy Carter, who went to the Naval Academy, which doesn’t allow fraternities; neither was LBJ; neither was Eisenhower, who went to West Point, which doesn’t allow fraternities; neither was Herbert Hoover. That’s 5 just off the top of my head in the 20th century, and without taking issue with the inclusion of Bill Clinton, who was in a coed service fraternity very unlike the social organizations we’re discussing. Phi Beta Kappa or other honorary/professional organizations are also a whole different animal.</p>
<p>Looking at VPs, Joe Biden was not in a fraternity in college, Al Gore was not, Walter Mondale was not, I can find no indication that Dick Cheney was…I’ve made my point. It’s not wise to cut and paste that kind of source without making any attempt to fact-check it yourself.</p>
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<p>My D is part of a sorority and there are times in the social calendar where the cooler/formal/road-trip stuff is available for participation. The key here is voluntary participation. My D at age 19 chooses not to participate. She is not judged for this by her peers. Many, many, many girls do not participate. It up to them as individuals and their personal moral code. And as shocking at it may to be to all the “Greek Haters”, that moral code starts in the home.</p>
<p>LasMa, I looked at your link, [Hazing</a> Prevention - Hazing Information](<a href=“http://hazingprevention.celect.org/hazing-information]Hazing”>http://hazingprevention.celect.org/hazing-information)</p>
<p>I find it odd that it states that 47% of HIGH SCHOOL students came to college having already experienced hazing. Unless there are underground frats/srats in high schools, it would seem that a plethora of things could fall under hazing (since your link never defined what hazing is). So, I perused the site some more to find…</p>
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<p>[Hazing</a> Prevention - Hazing Definitions](<a href=“http://hazingprevention.celect.org/hazing-definitions]Hazing”>Celect)</p>
<p>It seems like another take of over-sensitivity and political correctness. For example, I feel that giving a speech in front of a class could “cause embarrassment, harassment or ridicule”. Giving a speech on a position assigned to me by a teacher that “goes against my values” could “risk emotional damage.” Yet have I been hazed at all in this hypothetical public speaking class?</p>
<p>Nothing wrong with having fun and taking part in tradition (tradition has been on its way out for ages).</p>
<p>As for accusations of date rape, limiting it to the Greek community is misguided. Rape is a terrible thing that can happen anywhere. Males aren’t immune from it, either.</p>
<p>As for feminism… I definitely don’t think it’s on its way out, but growing and prospering. Phyllis Schafly gets mobbed by people who interrupt her speeches on campuses, protest her visits, and call out to her with cries of, “This is what an feminist looks like!” (and some things that I can’t repeat on a family forum). God forbid do something similar to Gloria Steinem.</p>
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<p>I concur, collegeshopping. I’m a Gamma Delta Iota, for what it’s worth.</p>
<p>“Did you threaten to stop paying your D’s tuition bills if they had more than 2 drinks or easy sex in college? How about if they dared to attend a frat party?”</p>
<p>No, because if I did that, I assume they’d lie. (By the way, there is data on this one as well). That’s the whole point. Which is why I would never pay for a fraternity/sorority. If that’s what they want, they could figure out how to pay for it. I wouldn’t pay to set them up in a situation where I would expect they’d lie (as well as put themselves in danger).</p>
<p>Of course, I’m sure they’d only join the “good sororities”, and together, the 50 accomplished young holy women would raise as much money for charity as a a motivated 10-year-old selling Girl Scout cookies.</p>
<p>And just as a side note. Some of the honors communities at my D’s school are the biggest partiers of them all…with the work hard, play hard mentality. They too do the cooler road trips, throw some pretty crazy parties and participate in morally questionable activities. So just because a kid is greek or not greek, stress on their moral code will come at all directions.</p>
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<p>There is a difference between peer pressure between friends and coercion between a member of a group and a prospective member of inferior status in the group (i.e., a pledge.)</p>
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<p>mini,
It must have been very scary for you to allow your D to attend American University. It looks like they have at least 12 fraternities there and a decent Greek scene. How did you ensure that your D would stay away from frat boys?</p>
<p>I didn’t have to ensure anything, thank you. She took care of it herself. </p>
<p>(There aren’t any frats on campus, and after her second year, lives downtown. She did, horrors, join a gospel choir started by folks a FEMA, which she found, double horrors, on Craigslist.) </p>
<p>But the data are what they are. They are available for anyone who wants to look at them. Thank heavens that everyone on CC has kids who join frats and sororities that ‘don’t do that’. ‘everything is voluntary’, and spend their weekends wrapping the skin wounds of poor diabetics.</p>
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<p>Of course, she’s one of those who “don’t do that!”</p>
<p>After Mini said there’s no such thing as date rape, I stopped reading.</p>
<p>Get educated, and make an informed opinion. You can’t do that unless you go out of your way to see the other side. The media is very good at causing people to think a certain way, and you’re all pray to their messages because you don’t do any real research. If the media started saying that vegetables really cause cancer, you’d probably believe it. Have fun in your fantasy world, where apparently date rape is an illusion.</p>
<p>“It must have been very scary for you to allow your D to attend American University. It looks like they have at least 12 fraternities there and a decent Greek scene. How did you ensure that your D would stay away from frat boys?”</p>
<p>Bay, this sounds to me like you are bullying. I’m sorry if you have a different opinion than mini. There are plenty of reasons to be appalled by Greek life, let’s not pretend minis opinion is unwarranted.</p>
<p>She found plenty of young men outside of fraternities, but I’ll send her your recommendation in case she ever finds herself hard up. Any particular frat you’d like to recommend? (Not likely, though, as she’s working close to full time while completing grad school, and has her CPA exams this summer.)</p>
<p>Fraternity, You misunderstood what mini said. You were not reading for content, but Looking for something to criticize mini for. It’s not that date rape doesn’t exist, it’s that date rape IS rape. That “have fun in your fantasy world” bit is overly snarky and uncalled for.</p>
<p>Oh, and I see you opened up a new account just to post on this thread and ensure your anonymity.</p>
<p>This was an interesting conversation until certain people had to get all snarky and nasty.</p>
<p>How much are these fraternity fees?</p>
<p>Fees vary, depending on whether the brothers have a house to support, whether they eat and live at the house, whether they take these out-of-state trips, and things like that, but I would say anywhere from $500+ per semester on up to over $2000 or more. There are also expenses during the year, such as the purchase of t-shirts for every event (and there are lots). But, as I say, fees vary so you really have to investigate your individual situation.</p>