<p>Lenny2…I actually agree with you. I do not feel that it is appropriate for 18 year old girls to go on out of town trips with boys they hardly know…and a cooler full of alcohol. My daughter has opted not to participate in that type of activity at her school for the past two years. She has sisters that do and many that don’t. The ones that don’t go actually help the ones that do, paint thier coolers. Her sorority has all kinds of girls in it from all kinds of backgrounds. There are many that don’t party and they are accepted just the same.</p>
<p>The point that I am trying to make is just that…it is not black and white…there is good and bad with all systems, inlcuing the Greek system. I feel that some posters are trying to make it black and white without any first hand knowledge. </p>
<p>Mini is an expert in alcoholism…I commend her…however, I am sure she is aware that alcoholism is a big problem among college students, greek or not. In fact, I get the police report from UT everyday and guess what…many of the arrests for MIP and public intoxication are in the honors dorms or the student dorms that do not house many greeks. My point is that it is a collegewide problem…one that needs to be addressed by the universities themselves.</p>
<p>Collegealum314…you do have firsthand knowledge and your post should be helpful to the OP. I am referring to others that do not have kids in the Greek system and they weren’t in the Greek system themselves…they seem to be the harshest critics.</p>
<p>I know there are positive aspects to Greek life. Stop saying that some of us are being close-minded about that. It’s not true, and it’s clouding the discussion. It’s a straw man argument. It’s an attempt to confuse the issue so that you don’t have to respond to what we are saying. </p>
<p>Likewise, yes, of course kids who aren’t in Greek organizations can have alcohol issues. That’s not the point.</p>
<p>What we are talking about is the particular culture of coercive activity and hazing, usually around pledging. Maybe it doesnt happen in all frats. Fantastic. But it does happen in many, and frankly I have a huge problem with it and I would hope that those of you who love your frats would also have a huge problem with it. In fact, you should have a bigger problem than I do, since your kids are involved. And if there is no hazing in your kids group, great, but there is plenty of hazing in others. And there’s probably a lot of stuff that goes on that your kids don’t tell you. I know when I was in college my parents had no clue what I was doing.</p>
<p>I haven’t read the whole thread yet. I have a negative view of frats after having gone to a large, public southern football school after getting out of a CC. </p>
<p>If frats have higher GPA’s it must be because they save all the tests of the professors and file them so that their bought and paid for “friends” oops, I am sorry, their brothers can cheat through school. </p>
<p>Yeah, golden. </p>
<p>If my son brings up frats when he gets to his 4-year school I’ll have an answer ready for him after I get done laughing. I’ll give you a hint. It starts with nofreakingwaydude. </p>
<p>I did go through rush at that school, yes, many years ago, and I don’t buy all the hogwash about leadership blah-blah-blah and charitable work. As someone else mentioned you can, and my son will, do charitable work on his own and/or through other organizations on campus. My point is the leadership mumbo jumbo and we did 15 minutes of helping people one day charitable work is all a smoke screen. Frats always have been about a bunch a guys pooling money to rent a place to party and buy beer for the purpose of getting chicks drunk. Plain and simple. </p>
<p>Is that why your son is in college? </p>
<p>If it is, go ahead, let him sign up and write some checks. </p>
<p>That isn’t why my son will be in college so I will be strongly discouraging it before he even gets there.</p>
<p>I don’t think being in a frat helps with getting jobs after college either. </p>
<p>The days of being hired because you got really drunk over and over with other dudes are kind of over. In fact, I think putting all the stuff you did while in a frat on your resume will make it harder to get whatever job you are shooting for unless we are talking about that coveted pool hall bouncer job or something akin to that. </p>
<p>I’m sorry frat defenders … most people in the Real World just aren’t stupid enough to think your “leadership” activities in the frat, like collecting beer money, is worth a darn in the Real World.</p>
<p>I’m hoping my son won’t have to rent friends in college just to fit in. </p>
<p>I’m hoping me and my wife raised him well enough that he doesn’t need to get girls drunk to have a “relationship.” </p>
<p>That sort of mentality may not be limited to frat guys but frat guys seem to be full of their own testosterone and carry on that kind of thinking well after college based on my experiences. </p>
<p>I’d just rather my son make friends the normal way and get into and out of relationships, which are full of ups and downs, the normal way. We haven’t had the frat talk yet … I might read this thread with him … he’ll enjoy my bunt replies. </p>
<p>I think it is hilarious that the frat dude’s talking points were debunked so he ran away. So now we know what frat leaders do when not getting drunk … they make up fake data about what good thinsg frats do. Hilarious. As I said, I have a negative view of frats (obviously) but until I read this thread I was going to be abit more “maybe” about it when I talked to my son because he might’ve liked them and since I am not living my life through him. </p>
<p>He ain’t me in other words. </p>
<p>I was going to let him “check them out.” But, now that I think about it, and after reading some of the nonsense on this thread it clarifies in my mind I am 99.9% against it and I’m going to make sure he knows how I feel without confusing the issue. Soem people are easily confused when all you have to do is think about it for two seconds and add two plus two. Again, my son will not be in college just to get drunk and get laid.</p>
My son’s frat just started a mentoring program. Alumni of his national fraternity (regardless of what college they attended) who live near a college with a chapter of this frat are encouraged to offer to mentor undergraduate brothers. I believe so far it has been fairly successful.</p>
<p>My daughter learned some really important skills going thru recruitment, both as a PNM (Potential New Member) and as a sister. Sorority recruitment is a very formalized process, and involves meeting lots of new people and making conversation. Once she became a sister, when preparing for recruitment they actually practiced how to lead a conversation and speak with someone you’ve never met. I think this would be an invaluable skill in the interviewing process, especially at events like job fairs.</p>
<p>
For frats & sororities that own their own chapter houses and have meal plans, the job of being house manager or commissar carry a great deal of responsibility, especially as involves budgeting and getting other to work with you cooperatively. Organizing large philanthropic events (most Greek houses have at least one major event per year, and these events can raise thousands of dollars) is also a very valuable work skill.</p>
<p>Re: #163-165: Wow, bigoted much? “I’m hoping me and my wife raised him well enough…” Doubtful. ("me and my wife??) Nothing lost if a fraternity man doesn’t get hired by you.</p>
<p>ACCecil, I can say with absolute certainty that my frat-member son is smarter than you and your wife and your kids. He is also more thoughtful in every regard: ethically, morally, you name it. Go crawl back under your rock.</p>
<p>LOL@accecil! He/she is a combination of Archie Bunker, Ted Bundy, and Rachel Maddow. It’s fascinating to read posts from those who see the world in black and white.</p>
<p>[Sorry if someone else said this already. I have read half of the 12 pages of comments and didn’t see this mentioned. I know many of you know this.]</p>
<p>“Correlation does not imply causation.”</p>
<p>On the average, people in fraternities do have higher GPA’s than people not in fraternities. Absolutely. People in fraternities are more likely to have come from high-income homes where one or both parents attended college. People in fraternities are less likely to have to juggle work study or other jobs with homework and classes. People in fraternities are more likely to have arrived well prepared; they are more likely to come from highly-ranked high schools.</p>
<p>On the average, people who have these characteristics have higher GPA’s than those who do not have these characteristics. </p>
<p>Just wanted to make sure this thought was somewhere amongst these pages and pages of comments. :)</p>
<p>So - ACCecil posted about his experience rushing at a large, public, southern football school. Because of his tone and syntax, people are impugning his intelligence, morality and ethics? It seems apparent that he thought the members in the fraternal organizations to which he was exposed were less polished and less thoughtful in their behaviors than he was comfortable with. I would guess that most of that population is not represented here on CC. You all are not a random sample. So, if you will attack this poster on character issues how can you so enthusiastically embrace a group that was too uncouth even for his taste?</p>
<p>Just because you dislike ACCecil’s opinion, gathered from first hand experience, you slam him with personal insults? I thought you were adults. I am stunned. This is why I hate the Internet. We’ve all heard about frats sharing grades, drinking to debauchery, etc, as ACCecil said. Sorry if he insulted your precious Greek life but his opinion is shared by many many people who have also been in fraternities. In any case, no excuse for such rudeness.</p>
<p>Will one of you pro frat people admit that there are a lot of questionable activities in fraternities? Just one?</p>
<p>If you don’t agree with someone’s opinion, dissect the opinion. “go crawl under your rock” and the Archie Bunker, Ted Bundy bit are completely out of line. And don’t start saying "well, he insulted me . . " trading insults is for juveniles. </p>
<p>And Rachel Maddow would be a compliment, so I see we really have nothing in common.</p>
<p>The frat defenders and myth makers will have to do way better than that to hurt my feelings. And Consolation I doubt your frat member son is smarter than I am but it doesn’t matter either way. </p>
<p>At least I don’t have to rent my friends.</p>
<p>And my son won’t have to get chicks drunk to get laid. </p>
<p>Yeah, that is the message I want to teach him as he enters adulthood. </p>
<p>For the parents who read this that have daughters all I can say is I hope you have raised them have enough common sense and self esteem to not travel out fo town to hang out with guys they hardly know after painting a cooler and stocking it with booze. I mean, c’mon, really? I guess at least one parent tried to talk to her daughter and got the, “I’m 19 and I can do what I want” reply. </p>
<p>That is true. </p>
<p>Well, if she were my daughter I’d let her know what the game is all about and see if that is how she wants to be treated. I am sure they can talk and hang out back at the campus. I am pretty sure we all know what teh hotel and booze are for. I don’t doubt for a second that some girls fall for all this as creative fun. Okay. My son will have to miss all that sort of thing and frankly it wouldn’t surprise me if he thought this sort of thing was a grand idea right now. That is why I am the parent and he is 17 year old. It is my job to get him to think it through a little bit. </p>
<p>From the guy’s perspective, that isn’t how I want him to view the girls he dates. Form the girls perspective … ladies get some self respect. Just my $.02.</p>
<p>Did you read my posts #163-#165? I have a strong opinion but I don’t paint it as black and white. There are soem good things about frats. The formals are a good idea. They clearly have some positive social aspects. </p>
<p>It’s the rest of it I dislike. </p>
<p>I sat around dorm rooms bored a lot in college eating popcorn and talking with the same old dorm buddies and now and then we thought maybe we were missing something by not being in a frat. They are at least active on a Fri or Sat night so as I said I had negative feelings but originally was going to keep an open mind until I read this thread. It occured to me, after thinking about it, it is BS and just not worth whatever money it costs. So I went from being mildly open minded to no freakingway. </p>
<p>But I certainly didn’t see it as a black and white issue.</p>
<p>If your child is going to a top 25 school, then the Greek scene can be a benign experience. </p>
<p>If your child isn’t, then the Greek scene is a recipe for disaster.</p>
<p>Your child will be graduating into a job market that is decidedly different than just a few years ago. This isn’t like the 1980’s where Joe Fratguy and Susie FratGirl can graduate with a 3.2 GPA in Bus Mgmt and have a decent job in sales line up. If your child does not take college seriously, he or she is practically guaranteed to be underemployed through their 20’s , which will in turn mar their employment prospects in their 30’s.</p>