Just had to randomly hop in here with my favorite child prodigy Korean guitarist, Sungha Jung. I’ve been following him for over ten years I think…
and a more recent one…
That is all 
@HSP2019 I agree with your posts. As a very opposite of a Tiger Parent (because I pretty much grew up without parental guidance in academics), I feel a lot of Tiger parenting is motivated by discriminations they faced in adapting to a new country. I also see the same Tiger parenting from white parents in sports, when they are pushing some of their kids, as if they are trying to be future NFL or MLB players. All I am saying is Tiger parenting exists in all groups but the areas differ and is not limited to academics alone. Like I said, a lot depends on kids’ personalities and how the parents themselves were brought up. There IS a difference in being a good Tiger parent and a bad one, and that is primarily knowing your own kid and making adjustments.
For me, I am glad my bad GPA forced me to go into my own business. I also respect good Tiger parents. I don’t think they try to live through their kids’ success; they may be trying to prepare them for a tough world as best as they can.
Great posts, Tiggerdad.
"I also see the same Tiger parenting from white parents in sports, when they are pushing some of their kids, as if they are trying to be future NFL or MLB players. All I am saying is Tiger parenting exists in all groups but the areas differ and is not limited to academics alone. "
Very true. It’s interesting that the phrase Tiger parent has such loaded negative connotations, yet phrases like Soccer Mom don’t, given the horrific behavior of so many of the parents of kids in sports.
A part of the Asian culture, traditionally at least, is this unspoken “social contract” between the parents and their children, that is, parents sacrifice their lives in raising their children and invest in their education and upbringing to their utmost capabilities. When parents get old and feeble, their children in turn take care of them in their old age. It’s very common that you see Asian adult children living with their parents in the same household. Of course, all things cultural and traditional are subjected to change, especially among immigrants. From the first generation immigrant to third, the cultural and traditional norms become diluted to a certain degree. Some families continue to practice and uphold the old tradition, some don’t. The retirement homes in L.A. is very popular among the Korean-American elders nowadays. They want an independent living while not wanting to become a burden to their children.
Among the first-generation Asian-American immigrants, the “social contract” is still the norm, value and expectation. Their relationship with their children is that the children are seen and treated as extensions of themselves. A wonderful examples of such relationships can be found in Amy Tan’s “The Joy Luck Club” where, at every parents’ social gathering, all they ever talk (and brag) about is their children’s success stories. Their children’s success – getting straight A’s in the elementary school, winning a trophy at a local chess club tournament, being admitted to an Ivy League school, landing a lucrative banking job in the Wall Street, etc. – is really stories of THEIR success. Their children’s success is their success by extension.
I used the word, “vicariously” in this cultural sense. All parents, regardless of their cultural backgrounds, do take pleasure and derive contentment and satisfaction with their children’s successes, too, of course. But within the culture of the “social contract,” the Asian-American children’s success takes on a deeper significance. The children’s success or failure could literally determine the quality – from a financial stand point – of their retired lives in old age. This is why the aforementioned Korean parents living in a run down station wagon while running a small business in order to pay for their daughter’s Harvard expenses was “worth” their sacrifice. For their children’s success, the Asian parents would do anything.
When you see the Tiger parenting within this cultural context, I believe you can see the “logic” behind the phenomenon. I do agree with @websensation that, being faced with discrimination in this country, a greater pressure is placed on success as an added security. When Tiger parenting is practiced to its extreme is where all sorts of harmful symptoms and consequences can result.
I love this. I think, in the scramble for elite admissions, so many people miss the fact that there are many, many paths to success. In some ways, doing everything perfectly can really hamper one’s horizons. There is a reason that so many new businesses are started by people with few other options. When you graduate from an elite school with a cushy decently paying job, its very hard to throw it all away to take a risk. But if you don’t have as many prospects, if you’ve been fired or downsized or you have things to overcome, it can be the catalyst that moves you forward. Obviously, not everyone succeeds, but people really need to stop looking at lower grades, a less elite school or a completely different path as a dead end.
@milee30 my understanding of the term “soccer mom” is that it has a different somewhat negative connotation. It generally means a well educated woman who gave up on having an interesting career and interesting life to spend her time shuttling children around.
"There was never any physical discipline, no cram schools, no extracurriculars, no social work, no leadership activities, and no sports. I was simply not interested in any of that. I excelled academically, came to the USA for a graduate program, excelled academically again, got into one of the most demanding (and well paying) lines of work, in the #1 company in the world, and rose to the top leadership rank.
I never had any academic stress as there were no holistic admissions, no accelerated paths in academics in school, no APs or equivalents, and no standardized testing. There was no well rounded education either and I got out of humanities subjects by grade 10. Life was easy.
I cannot say the same for my son."
This is not a uniquely Asian experience. I can say much the same for the UK. So I’m guessing you grew up with A levels, presumably in Singapore, Hong Kong or India.
But I definitely agree with the philosophy of being the best at something. I got out of math when I realized I wouldn’t be the best in the world at it (it didn’t take me long to realize that) and picked another area where I could.
Many Asian American (and other) parents of kids who go to highly selective colleges are not tiger parents like Amy Chua.
There are 75 girls on the cross country team. If my daughter cannot be the best, should she quit?
Indeed, @TiggerDad However, this is the first application year in my profession that I have encountered Asian parents. born in this country, with students now approaching high school, and what a gargantuan difference. So refreshing to be able to communicate with adults who understand the West, lack the irrational, binary “desperation” syndrome of Elite-College-or-Humiliating Failure, and who care as much about raising emotionally balanced children as they care about the education of those children. I thought the day would never come that I would no longer feel as if I always needed a cultural translator. And these parents are just as educated as their immigrant parents are/were. (From the professional class.) Hallelujah.
@epiphany For those of Asian descent born in the United States or who came as young children, they grew up with the U.S. school system and have peers and friends who are not necessarily of their own heritage. A well integrated public school system like the ones I attended as a child gets one integrated into mainstream Western values. Due to immigration patterns, you will see more of the second and 1.5 generation American parents of Asian descent as your clients. So no need to be surprised that you no longer need a cultural translator.
As a 1.5 generation American of Indian heritage, I encounter this type of implicit bias all the time.
But if it is crucial to the Tiger Parent then they will make them quit.
A friend of my D20 is a first gen Chinese American boy. His mom asked me what the chances were he would make varsity in a particular sport as a freshman. I said most freshmen are on frosh/soph, then jv then varsity. She said there was no point in doing a sport if he could not be on varsity all 4 years.
If we didn’t discuss other family’s personal decisions on c.c. what would we talk about?
That’s a great testimonial to hear. I’m sure you’ll encounter the whole spectrum of Asian-Americans in your profession. As a first-generation immigrant, my social circle has always been predominantly made up of Asians in this country. I know of a Chinese-American Tiger mom whose methods of raising her daughter bordered on child abuse; I know of another Chinese-American parents who raised their daughters in a most wholesome way. A close family friend of ours, a Korean-American Tiger mom, has had an ongoing battles with her daughter in her attempt to get her daughter into an Ivy League school due to the pressure from growing up among some of her relatives with degrees from the Ivy League. My wife had a long talk with this Tiger mom one time at the height of the battle between the mom and the daughter. My wife basically told her that there’s nothing costlier than losing your daughter, and that message somehow gotten into the Tiger mom’s head as it had an immediate effect. The daughter is now at one of the Ivy League schools. My sons are good friends with her, yet they have lost all social media contacts with her, so they don’t know what has become of her lately. Yet another Korean-American family friend of ours has raised their only daughter in such a way that allowed her to grow up a highly creative, free spirit.
I can go on and on. There are all kinds. Tiger moms, bear moms and soccer moms or just plain moms… As the saying goes, a tree can be told by its fruit. Ultimately, whether a particular form of Tiger parenting had been fruitful or not can only be conveyed by the fruit itself, the children of Tiger parents. The “fruit” here isn’t just about that person’s achievement of elite school degree, career or position, digits on the paycheck, etc., but the inner sense of fulfillment, happiness and self-esteem as a person. Has this person ever had known what childhood was supposed to be like, playing hide and seek, sleepovers, camping trips with mom and dad, birthday parties, school plays, proms later on, etc. etc.? Do they remember childhood at all with such fun and exciting times, or is the memory filled with nothing but constant pouncing on the piano keyboard, rote memorizing multiples or nation’s capitols, spelling and math contests, being shuffled around in various after-school schools, being yelled at for one B+, and on and on?
“There are 75 girls on the cross country team. If my daughter cannot be the best, should she quit?”
I find this to be a rhetorical question, or at least partly, and it drives the point to the heart of the parenting issue at hand. For Tiger parents, the answer most likely is yes irregardless of whether the daughter ENJOYS the experience of being on the cross country team or not. It is often REGARD vs. DISREGARD for the child’s own personal, individual makeup, dreams, wishes and goals, that make the Tiger parent syndrome stand out. What impact does DISREGARD have on that child’s inner development in the long term, NO to sleepovers, movies, birthday parties, yard play with next door kids, visit to the Disneyland, etc?
If you do have a regard for the child’s own wishes and her own sense of inner fulfillment, then the answer to the above question would be to encourage her to continue, should she want to, and allow her to find her way to motivate herself to be better at it. A child being the best at something right from the get go doesn’t know what it takes to get to be the best, but a child who isn’t the best has a great learning opportunity about facing, challenging and overcoming adversity.
Again, it’s each individual child with that child’s parents and that particular family dynamics. Some kids, once grown up, deeply regret that his or her parents didn’t push them and allowed them to quit at something. Only knowing that particular child’s individual makeup and that child’s parents can determine what’s the best course of action. No one else can determine what action to take.
“But if it is crucial to the Tiger Parent then they will make them quit.
A friend of my D20 is a first gen Chinese American boy. His mom asked me what the chances were he would make varsity in a particular sport as a freshman. I said most freshmen are on frosh/soph, then jv then varsity. She said there was no point in doing a sport if he could not be on varsity all 4 years.”
Yes, that is very characteristic of the way many Tiger parents think. They want to maximize time, resources and the talent level of their children. Sure, why, after all, “waste” the highly valuable and very limited time in some activities that will not help with beefing up their child’s resume? That’s what Tiger parents think, never with REGARD to their children’s own thinking, wishes, and dreams. What if that Chinese-American boy really LOVES tennis? Have him quit? That’s the kind of parenting method that MAY help the boy earn a coveted spot in the Ivy League but what about THE BOY?
By the way, there are many applicants who “merely” participated in JV tennis and cross country and so on who go on to elite schools. On the other hand, there are equally as many who play for Varsity in every sports and will get rejected from the same schools.
This is just nonsense. Most of these kids got into top colleges because of their own innate abilities, self-motivation, or some combination of the two, not because of tiger parenting. The few who got in because of their tiger parents are much more likely to face burnouts and other issues in elite colleges when their tiger parents are no longer around. A kid is better off learning to self-motivate, to find his/her interest or passion, to plan independently his/her long journey (of which college is only a first step). Being tiger parents or not, we better realize, hopefully sooner rather than later, that we can’t always be part of that journey.
Continuing on the theme of quitting…and why quitting is good…
When my boys were very young, I taught them how to swim all four strokes. As the years progressed they got better and better. I even had a fortune of running into Rowdy Gaines one day while training my boys. Rowdy’s a former world swimming great and three time Olympic gold medalist who could have won greater glory if it weren’t for Carter’s boycott of the Olympics in Russia in early 80’s, and a great gentleman to boot. While chatting, he suddenly offered to teach my boys a swim lesson gratis without even my asking.
After several years of my swim lessons, they began competing in swimming and soon found themselves quickly moving up in swim ranks in local and state competitions. One thing I did start noticing at this time period of their excellent progress, though, was that they both seemed to swim without much enthusiasm and rather perfunctorily. So I asked in earnest for their honest answer as to whether they like swimming and whether they’d like to continue to swim or not. The answer was that they don’t enjoy the training part where they have to do the laps and how boring that was. By then, my objective as a parent in starting their swimming, i.e., life saving skills, had been achieved, so I asked them if they then want to quit. They both said yes. So that was the last time they swam. The years of my time and effort were in vain. One way to look at it. Another way of looking at it is that I had taught them the potentially life saving skills. Another way of looking at it is that they had a set of experiences that they’d remember, the fun part as well as the drudgery of swimming the laps repetitiously.
My second son was very natural at chess. By 8 years old he was ranked top 20 in the nation for his age group by USCF ratings, was the top rated in our state and had gone on to win the state scholastic chess championship. I had him quit chess, too. If my child doesn’t enjoy a particular activity, then quitting was just fine by me. We were a family of quitters. But by quitting they found new passions, their way. They KNOW what they like and what they don’t. As a parent, nothing gives me greater pleasure and happiness than watching them do the things that they really enjoy and passionate about. My only regret as a parent is that I didn’t know that I should have had my older son quit his music any sooner than when he did. Better late than never. He’s now very happy without music, although yesterday he totally surprised me and my wife when he inexplicably sat in front of our piano and started playing a song. He was very rusty, we could tell. We just listened and didn’t say a word. I have no idea why he suddenly started playing piano again or whether this is just a momentary thing that won’t be repeated again. But then, should it matter FOR US as parents?
Let’s see… so how much did I lose out by not being a Tiger dad? By the typical Tiger parenting mentality, I should have been a total loser as a quitter dad with pathetic and embarrassing sons who disgraced and dishonored their parents as quitters in spite of potential talents in swimming and chess. For a loser TiggerDad, you wouldn’t find a happier dad for reasons, I’m sure, are inexplicable to Tiger parents.
What will you do if your own children just don’t happen to be the best in the world at something? What if they are simply decent competant kids? Best in the world is a very high bar. I honestly can’t think of one single thing at which I am the very best in the entire world. Yet, I have a good life, good job that I actually really enjoy, and loving family. Maybe, I am the best in the world at being mediocre?
My parents never forced or pressured me and my siblings. They wanted us to pursue our passions. My sister was on the US jr national team for gymnastics and had already talked to multiple schools such as Stanford and Ucla but when it didn’t interest her anymore my parents allowed her to quit. She got to enjoy a normal rest of her high school as a regular student and is much happier because of it. I think ultimately that helped since there wasn’t any stress to perform. I wanted to do well cause it made me happy. I would def not pressure my kids especially since I’ve realized there’s many paths to success. It doesn’t mean going to the best schools.
No one can be the best in ANYTHING; there’s always someone somewhere who’s better at it. You can only try to be the best you can be at something, but you won’t do your best at it unless you’re deeply interested in it. If you’re not, mediocrity is probably the best you can achieve.