<p>I confess myself disappointed. I leave this discussion with a lower opinion of Christianity than when I joined.</p>
<p>That's what I've always heard, that this concept of "burning in hell" was made up (with not a single mention of "hell" in the bible) to scare people and is contradictory to a loving god.</p>
<p>I'm sorry, was that a reply to what I said?</p>
<p>Burning in hell may in fact be a twisting of God's actual intent for non-believers in the afterlife. However, it is, definitely, a separation from the Creator for an eternity...whether it is burning in a literal fire, being tormented forever, or just disappearing into nothingness. Chosing to believe in Christ, however, is clearly described as living for eternity in blissful happiness with our Creator...a much better fate :)</p>
<p>Sigh. That sounds way too much like propaganda. Any other non-believer/non-Christian agree with me? Maybe I'm too used to open-mindedness. I don't know.</p>
<p>EDIT: I do not mean the post above this one. Rather the collection of posts by NikiiL on this page, and the previous one.</p>
<p>We all believe what we want to believe. There's no difference between belief in Greek mythology and any kind of more recent theism; it's all based on faith without evidence. Christians want to believe because it gives them comfort ("a much better fate"). Why isn't it considered blasphemous for a mere mortal to even suggest knowing "God's actual intent"? How do you deal with the known differences in translations of the bible, where whole passages in King James don't appear anywhere in the ancient texts? Can you selectively disbelieve King James where appropriate? Or is your god continuously delivering more text, and that's why we have Mormons? These are clearly old questions without answers.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Chosing to believe in Christ
[/quote]
I don't think that you can choose to believe something. Belief isn't exactly a thing that can be turned on and off at will.</p>
<p>^ Certainly not quickly, like a switch, but over time one's beliefs can change. For me it was learning about science that showed me how wrong the bible is, but it was a slow process, and I had to be willing to give up what I had been taught as a kid. Now I believe in nature! Some of the problems are the same, like who created god, who created the universe (both always were).</p>
<p>I agree with vossron. We choose what we believe in. I molded my perspective of God over the years to make him more believable, more human. People have been doing it for centuries, it's nothing new.</p>
<p>blue_box: Regardless of your opinion of God, the Lord still loves you more than anyone else. I know that loving Him does not always happen overnight--and I've done a poor job of it myself.</p>
<p>As for the concept of hell: as Nikkill referred to, flames sound rather tame compared to separation from the God who created me, offered me salvation and guides and loves me every day.</p>
<p>I agree..the fanatics on this board are hilarious.</p>
<p>Yes, God loves you. That is why family members die and bad things happen right?</p>
<p>Anyways..I was a Christian until I was 16-17. I always had doubts and finally realized "do I seriously believe this crap??". Then I became Agnostic in theory, Atheist in practice.</p>
<p>God works in mysterious ways, doing things that are sins and disasters when people do them. Go figure! God inspired the 9/11 perps (they said so), leaving the poor Christians and Jews to wonder what he was up to.</p>
<p>fromthesouth and vossron: if you consider yourselves open-minded people, I'd suggest that you read "The Problem of Pain," by CS Lewis. You might just begin to understand how death, 9/11, disease and the like can be reconciled with the concept of a perfect and almighty God. </p>
<p>(The following is not a summary of "The Problem of Pain," just a thought.)
God (who has never sinned) granted humans free will, which humans (the 9/11 terrorists, for example) have abused. What I "wonder" at is how this world might have been different if the hijackers had followed God's will and not their own. </p>
<p>Fromthesouth: When I was 16, I encountered the same doubts as you, some of which drove me to tears. The questions I had about God, however led me to read a number of books, apologetics-minded or otherwise, that have come to shape and grow my Christian faith. It's perfectly all right to ask God questions (such as, 'why does there have to be pain in this world?') You just have to allow God to answer.</p>
<p>How can you get an answer from a mythical being. Do you go into the forest and ask unicorns the meaning of life?</p>
<p>God never promised His followers a life absent of pain and suffering. He has never promised that our life on this planet will always be pleasant. In fact, we were warned that following Him would not prevent us from experiencing pain, torment, and suffering while we are in human form. God is in absolute control but that control doesn't make us His puppets. We are given free will, the opportunity to do what it right and just or evil. It is our choice whether we allow God to shape us into loving humans, like Billy Graham, or to push every moral fiber from our being and allow us to become monsters, like the 9/11 terrorists. Fortunately, though, not every non-believer becomes a monster like the 9/11 terrorists. Thank God!</p>
<p>Just one closing thought....if you two are so certain that God is so terrible, unimportant and/or fraudulent, why are you still here discussing Christianity? Look deep inside yourself, the answer might surprise even you....God is tugging at those heart strings, calling you to return to Him. You may not admit it now, but that doesn't change the fact...and His love is always stronger than our deepest doubt. I know this first hand because I haven't always been a a follower of Christ.</p>
<p>I'm here debating it because I enjoy a good argument, why are you here? Is it that logic is tugging at your brain and deep down you believe he isn't real?</p>
<p>I've seen the proof. I'm here because I have been where you are now and can already see God's wonderous purpose for this thread :)</p>
<p>fromthesouth, can you prove that jesus did not exist. Regardless of ones beliefs, for the past 1500 years western society has believed in christianity (or a fusion of it with paganism...). I think that if you are trying to overturn what is ingrained in society, that the burden of proof is on you.</p>
<p>You should go on google videos and watch this video called "what we still don't know", it is this really interesting movie about theism and atheism, and in this weird way, it reconciles them. Its by no stretch of the imagination pro christian (hell, there is NO mention of any religion in the movie, just the concept of monotheism).</p>
<p>Like I said, people believe what they want to believe. We can't help ourselves. God works in such mysterious ways that he buried those dinosaur bones and gave us brains smart enough to figure out that they've been there for 65 million years, but then told us in his book that the universe is only a few thousand years old. We don't know why he played that trick on us. Some don't even ask. What I like best is the selective belief in science; it's fine as long as the bible doesn't contradict it.</p>
<p>"We are given free will"</p>
<p>Some Christians believe this, others believe events are pre-ordained. It's fun watching Christians argue about it. Don't assume that anything written here by a Christian is what Christians believe; they're all over the place on various issues. Some believe in prayer asking god for something, others believe that god's will is always followed and that it's blasphemous to ask him to change his mind. My two sisters are both devout Christians, but are on opposite sides politically. One loved Bush and was in favor of his wars, the other hated Bush and is a pacifist, and their views of Christianity followed their politics, one favoring the violence of the old testament and the other the peace of love of the new testament. Amusing to witness.</p>
<p>"I think that if you are trying to overturn what is ingrained in society"</p>
<p>The earth is flat and is at the center of the universe. Everyone believed it, yet it was easily overturned when science showed up. Just wait.</p>