I see what you are saying, but I’m not sure it works. These programs are all at reputable four year institutions – maybe not elite universities, but not second rate regionals either. The student who gets into the 4X4 program at Drexal and obtains a 4.0 GPA and high MCAT score is not prevented from applying to all the elite medical schools. Are you saying that the education the student might get at Yale undergrad is so far superior that it will propel him to become a leader in his field, while the same student at Drexel would not?
While I agree with some observations, I actually feel happy since D attends a fine research University’s 7 year program :-). However I need to point out some assumptions which need not be necessarily true.
If you follow last year’s thread you will notice how attending an elite undergrad school may actually backfire. The kids going to all these elite schools are all of high caliber and butting heads with each other to stand out and get ahead. I myself know a handful who went to Ivies, MIT and the like and either ended up in a lot lower level medical schools or completely dropped off the plan altogether. A number of contributors to last year’s thread shared similar accounts and even statistics.
To the question of whether the traditional route or direct programs are more appropriate, that is something the student and parents have to decide for themselves and it is an unnecessary digression, at least on this forum.
Secondly, getting into primary care residencies of top schools is no cake walk either. Infact primary care residencies serve as gateways to elite fellowships like cardiology, GI, cancer research and nephrology to name a few. My former colleague’s son who joined UPenn residency in internal medicine last month wants to follow up with fellowship in Hematology and cancer research, for which UPenn is a pioneer in the world. I am sure he wouldn’t have given up going there for any other residency placement or field of study in the country.
And lastly, unfortunately there are not that many giants being produced in the medical field nowadays. So going to a great program need not mean anything in the grand scheme. So far we haven’t had any major breakthrough either in common cold or in cancer and everything else in between after all these decades of research and billions of investment.
Good points by both of you. I agree, there are pros and cons to both approaches. Good discussion.
@skalmdi @rk2017 @gallentjill This whole discussion about medical school tiers for BS/MD is mute until one has secured multiple admissions to several BS/MD programs. This whole process is a crap shoot similar to the admission into Ivies. The best strategy is to apply widely after careful research to secure an admission. One should NOT close the option to apply via regular route to medical schools (at least 85% of class is admitted via regular route ). Most of the applicants to BS/MD programs are top of the cream anyway. In my opinion, all the tier based discussion is useless.
I saw a post somewhere saying that you can only apply to one of Albany’s feeder schools, but I can’t find the post or anything on the website that gives this information. Can any of you post a link? THanks!
@gallentjill that’s not true. I applied to both Union and RPI the 2018 cycle and it was totally acceptable
http://www.amc.edu/academic/Undergraduate_Admissions/special_programs.cfm
Read the 2nd paragraph under “requirements for consideration”
Thanks @Empire007 Thats really too bad. D liked both Union and RPI.
How important would you estimate SAT subject tests are for the middle and lower tier programs? D would like to skip them if possible.
If the program(s) recommend them to be taken, they are important. For example, if I remember correctly, one of the NY based programs RPI/Albany recommended two science subject tests of your choice. So if you are applying through RPI they do matter. Not sure if Union/Siena care about them though even as they have the same kind of arrangement with AMC.
Unlike APs which can be taken only once a year, I think you have lot more flexibility with SAT subject tests. So you can try a given subject test more than once to improvise if needed.
My sat subject scores are both at a 690 and I don’t think theres any reason for me to retake them since it was my second time for each one. Should I still apply to a bsmd school? I’m starting to lose so much hope with these programs just because I feel like my test scores aren’t good enough. Because I’m pretty sure that most of these schools require them anyway. Is there any point?
@remroll I have been doing some digging. Of the schools my daughter is interested in, none of them require the subject tests. One said that if you have them, they’d like to see them and I’m still waiting to hear from a few others about whether the are recommended or really not necessary.
If you have everything else in order, high test scores, high GPA, the right ECs, I wouldn’t let the subject tests stop you from trying. Just be realistic and understand that the chances of getting into ANY of these programs is minuscule and pay a lot of attention to your regular undergrad applications. That is the attitude my daughter is taking.
Now that Albany will only allow you to apply through one feeder school, any advice on Union vs. RPI? My daughter likes the atmosphere at RPI better, but is not happy about 7 vs. 8 years (would rather have the full 4 year college). Would one be easier to get into?
Quick question, I’m an upcoming sophomore. My UW GPA is 3.8. I feel like I can easily bring it up to 3.9 in the next 3 years. Will that be competitive?
@bearsfan21 If you are an ORM (read Asian), you are NOT very competitive with UW 3.8 GPA? It may be competitive for a non-ORM candidate.
@gallentjil,
Have you visited RPI/Union yet? If not, you may want to go prepared with a list of questions to ask the admissions folks there before deciding which one to choose to apply.
My understanding is that RPI is very rigorous and so maintaining a 3.5 GPA can be a challenge to some. Perhaps that’s why they used to ask additional subject tests to make sure the students of the program will be able to withstand the rigor. Heard that their foundation courses in Math, Physics and Chem are especially hard. Now, you need to find out if your D has AP credits, will they waive these courses from the curriculum or not for this program (some BS/MD programs don’t waive them in these areas, even as they let the regular undergrads get away with their AP credits). Also refer to the admissions results thread for 2018, remember seeing some comments on both the programs. Vaguely remember, It seems RPI is crazy about high school GPA from those comments
I don’t have any direct knowledge of Union other than people liking it for the business exposure they get from it and an additional degree. Also you may have to consider the financial aspects of both these schools in your decision making. You may want to refer to and analyze the common data sets (CDS) of both these schools and see where there may be higher likelihood of getting any merit or need based assistance as the case may be. I have a feel that getting awards in RPI may be a bigger deal because of lot of applicants to their engineering programs coming with high credentials. On the other hand, I also know not many girls attend RPI, so that may favor your D’s prospects of getting an award, but not sure if they are handed out to kids in shortened / non-traditional programs like BS/MD.
@rk2017 @gallentjil FYI, DD got a merit award of $18000/yr from RPI. They have a fewer female enrollment compared to male, being a predominantly an Engineering school.
Can you please tell us your D’s stats so that we can get an impression of how selective OU is? Thank you!
Don’t want to speak for @grtd2010, but don’t think his D goes to OU.
OU has 5-6 intake every year into their Humanities Scholars program and so it sure is very competitive, like all others. But I believe if you can make it to the National Merit Finals based on your PSAT scores from junior year, you get 5 years of tuition free there. But bear in mind California (think that’s where you are from right) has one of the highest cut offs in the nation for making it there (220+) out of 228?
Just to give an idea for an ORM to have a decent shot at any of these programs the following may serve as a mark, give or take.
ACT: >=35; SAT >= 1550 (not superscore, one sitting). GPA: >= 3.9. Plus all the other extra curriculars and other accomplishments.
Some of the schools/programs do know GPA can vary widely based on the type of school and the competition levels there and make some accommodations.
You may not have yet looked at the posts in the 2018 Results thread (and previous years too) where some kids or their parents were kind enough to share their stats for the benefit of future batches, wish more had done that. Below is the link you may want to go through to get a feel and to prepare for the future accordingly. This is just for a general idea, no need to compare oneself and jump to unnecessary conclusions too early.
Could anyone give me any points for my resume so far?
I am a rising junior.
I am also a terrible test taker. I had an A in AP Bio both semesters (first student ever to do so in the last 4 years), but shookingly recieved a 3 on the AP exam. And to add insult to injury, scored a 750 on the Bio M Subject test. Will this hurt the chances of me getting in?
SATs: have been hoovering around high 1400s on Khan Academy, but will prep intensively and hopefully get a solid 1500+ score.
Rank: 1/300ish, 4.0 U/W, 4.3W
Great essays, good rec letters… hopefully
Medical ECs: Cancer research $5000 stipend, 100hrs at ucla hosptial, pre med scholars program, 300hrs at local hospital, nuerogist shadowing, IYNA staff, published article on nueroscience. Main EC: started a pre med club at school, raised 800hrs+ through various internships, programs, volunteering oppurtunities. Raised $500 through halloween and christmas fundraising for medical research and charities. Planning on using the cancer research stipend plus help from dad’s work (water solution company) to travel to india and help with water pollution and build water piping, etc.
Other ECs: speech and debate (qualified for regionals both years of high school, science bowl (bio guy) placed 3rd locally, aca deca (scored highest on math and science, which was biology, on b team), volleyball (really love this sport!!!) league champs this year!, leadership (was in charge of multiple programs ie pink day.
Awards seem week: few gpa school awards, president awards, certificates for completing med programs, cpr certified, most improved for vball, nothing to crazy.
Anyways, kinda went off on a tangent… will a 3 on bio coupled with a 750 on the bio m test severey hinder my chances of getting into a bs/md program. Ive had my eyes set on drexel, case western, northwestern, and bu. I plan on taking APES next year (hince my plan on going to india), and will self study for math 2 and chem subject tests.
I know I still got junior year ahead of me, but I am set on becoming a doctor. However, if you see anything that you want to point out, please let me know. College confidential is a great place, and has helped me have a great sophmore year. Thank you