<p>"What if almost every kid in HS is applying to Harvard-Stanford-Berkeley-UCLA? (in our magnet school) "</p>
<p>Well, then you’re living in the midst of some very unsophisticated people, if they think that Harvard-Stanford-Berkeley-UCLA are the only colleges worth attending. (And boy, UCLA sticks out like a sore thumb in that list.)</p>
<p>The intelligent response is - well, there are lots of other excellent universities in the country - perhaps I’ll open my mind and learn a little bit about them so I can widen where my daughter is thinking about.</p>
<p>The unintelligent response is to double-down and assume that those are the only 4 schools worth considering.</p>
<p>Where did you get your information on “what are good schools”, Californiaa? It seems like you’re relying on uneducated word-of-mouth with people who are overly impressed by what they know and don’t have the sophistication to understand that there are places they haven’t heard of that are just as good.</p>
<p>We have over 100 kids per teacher in AP classes. Obviously, teacher doesn’t remember them. Typically, kids are sending a “draft” - a letter that briefly describes their grades and achievements to the teachers together with the request for rec letter. </p>
<p>"It seems like you’re relying on uneducated word-of-mouth with people who are overly impressed by what they know "</p>
<p>Where else could I get a reliable information? Marketing booklets? Newspaper Ranking? </p>
<p>I made this mistake once when I signed my D. to the “best elementary school” according to all rankings. It was … not the best. It was fine, but had sooooo many issues. </p>
<p>As I said before: UC Schools Do Not Accept Teacher Recommendations. </p>
<p>And hey, if they are all applying to STEM majors, what’s with Harvard? They should be applying in droves to MIT and Caltech and Olin and CMU and Princeton, among others. And the Chem and Physics College for Creative Studies programs as UCSB.</p>
<p>“Where else could I get a reliable information? Marketing booklets? Newspaper Ranking?”</p>
<p>You could ask us, but every time you do, you don’t consider what we have to say. You seem to think that legacies are always accepted, for example, even though the vast majority of them are denied. You could ask for suggestions for schools for your D to consider, but you’re already decided it’s only a handful and won’t even consider anything else. You haven’t once asked about liberal arts colleges.</p>
<p>“made this mistake once when I signed my D. to the “best elementary school” according to all rankings. It was … not the best. It was fine, but had sooooo many issues.”</p>
<p>Yes, that’s what happens when you blindly chase 'the best" without understanding what is the best for your particular situation / set of needs. Don’t be embarrassed, though, a lot of people do that. </p>
<p>@californiaaa
“We have over 100 kids per teacher in AP classes. Obviously, teacher doesn’t remember them. Typically, kids are sending a “draft” - a letter that briefly describes their grades and achievements to the teachers together with the request for rec letter.”</p>
<p>Most teachers have 100+ students over the course of the day. Never have I encountered a teacher who didn’t know who my kid was. Does every teacher get to “know” each kids - of course not, but there are many opportunities over the course of a school day + extra curriculars for a student to get a chance to interact more extensively with a teacher.</p>
<p>That is exactly the purpose of the recommendations - has the student learned to develop relationships with their instructors or do they just go through their day like a robot in a factory. If a student isn’t interacting with any teachers enough for them to get to know them that is a red flag. This is a shortcoming of the student’s!</p>
<p>I think you underestimate how well teachers get to know the students. Also, it is not all the same teachers being asked to write letters. In junior and senior year, your kid will have 10 different core course teachers, and need probably 2 letters. That is a lot of choice. Even if all the kids are asking math and science teachers, there are several to choose from. </p>
<p>If no one knows who your daughter is, then yes, I would worry. That hasn’t happened to me. And our teachers don’t just have 100 students. It would be closer to 150. It sounds like you are complaining that your daughter doesn’t have enough opportunity to stand out in a highly competitive STEM school. You can’t have it both ways. She is getting an education there that many kids can only dream of, but she may be merely average in that environment, and not wow teachers the way she would in the kind of school you would never send her to.</p>
<p>That isn’t even legal in our public schools. 100:1 ratio? That’s hard to fathom.</p>
<p>All I can say is, if you won’t accept anything less than Harvard, you need to figure out a way to get this kid to stand out and get to know teachers who can add to your kid’s application. You already said he is “perfect,” so I don’t see what the problem is.</p>
<p>What!!! There are very few selective majors at top colleges. Faculty may select the students admitted to a particular non-required course if it is oversubscribed, but I’ve never heard of a “second round of selection, at the level of major.” I just checked the link for physics majors at Harvard <a href=“https://www.physics.harvard.edu/academics/undergrad”>https://www.physics.harvard.edu/academics/undergrad</a> . I saw nothing whatsoever there about having to apply to major in physics–or any other science. </p>
<p>As for the number of letters a high school teacher might write, I don’t think it’s that onerous. Only students who are applying to selective universities even need letters. None need more than two. Each student will have any number of teachers to choose from. My son’s APUSH teacher made each student fill out a whole questionaire for the kids he recommended. They had to say what grade they got on the AP, give him a copy of one of the papers he had corrected, write a paragraph about their favorite text in the course, and write a little bit about the schools they were applying to and why they had chosen them. I’m pretty sure he wrote good recommendations armed with all that info! And that some students faced with all those requirements thought it would be easier just to ask their math teacher! </p>
<p>Even if a teacher has a load of 100 students, most don’t teach only seniors. And if teacher are too popular they can set limits.</p>
<p>Well, at first I thought that’s what he meant, but when he said it wasn’t possible for the teacher to remember the students, I got confused.</p>
<p>If californiaa’s child is “perfect” as he has already stated, and is truly Harvard worthy, his teachers should remember him. 100 students over the course of many classes isn’t all that much, and really isn’t all that hard of a task when we are talking about the top top top percentage of a given high school class. Not all of those 100 students taking AP classes are really Harvard material.</p>
<p>My son’s friend was invited to apply to MIT, but would not do the essays. He went to GA Tech, which didn’t require the long essays. </p>
<p>I think the essays & LORs helped my STEM son for both UG and grad school. He didn’t have perfect #s, but he knew a few teachers well. One thing for sure, he did only what he wanted to, not anything I pressured him to do. There was never a goal to get into an elite college. What he has accomplished is beyond my expectations.</p>
<p>If the OP’s DD gets involved with state competitions, Academic Games, a research project, the Honors Society, drama, et al., she will know at least 2 teachers well enough to ask for a LOR. I just hope the OP listens to her interests.</p>
<p>It may be difficult to believe, but, yes, we have probably 100 kids on ONE AP class. I don’t know how they make it legally. I think, that teacher has an assistant, so, technically, there are 2 adults per 100 kids. I am not sure that the teacher remembers all names (in fact, I am pretty sure that she doesn’t). All these kids would need LORs. </p>
<p>I don’t worry much about my D. She’ll find a way to befriend a teacher. </p>
<p>I have big doubts about the LOR usefulness in large public schools. </p>
<p>You’re treating this like looking up “best refrigerator” rankings in Consumer Reports. For colleges, it’s not that easy. You read the college marketing materials and the rankings…and then you read here (and on other college websites, and guidebooks), copiously. You slowly gather information, figure out what’s going to work for your family. You learn things you didn’t know before, and you learn what kind of information is reliable. </p>
<p>If you want to second-guess everyone on College Confidential, and continue to insist that you–who didn’t go to college here, who’s never had a child go through college admissions–know the real way that things work, then sure, go right ahead. If you actually want to learn something that will help you and your child with college admissions, a little open-mindedness on your part would be a really good idea. </p>
It was fine, but had sooooo many issues. </p>