<p>I am having a hard time keeping the pictures of the schools straight- but I wanted to respond to the comment that a 15 year old isn't old enough to have major input in where he attends school.
Next year- he may be driving- making big decisions that impact safety and safety of others.
In three years he will legally be an adult- old enough to join military and make major decisions without any input from his family if he chooses.
This is a perfect opportunity for him to make a major decision while still in a controlled environment. In our house, you learn by doing- you only get so much out of decisions and tasks that are done for you.</p>
<p>Thanks again everyone. </p>
<p>We have given our son the task of interviewing all of his friends who attend the local school and asking them what they like BEST about it and what they like LEAST. He's also going to track down the name and phone number of the football coach to talk to after spring break. </p>
<p>On his own, he already looked up and compared all of the available AP classes at both schools on the internet --- apparently, the science program at the local school MAY actually be a bit stronger than at his current school (the local has five science APs, our private only one, AP Bio.) But he agreed that it would be a good idea to find out more about how those courses are taught and he admitted he's not certain about the computerized math classes as he is the type of kid who likes to ask lots and lots of questions.</p>
<p>My son is a chip off the old Mom - if he wants something, he will research it until his point is proven, so I am sure by the time I get back from the trip with my D. he will have the power point presentation ready to go for me. :)</p>
<p>He understands that we want him involved in the decision but that ultimately there will be risks and benefits that we will ALL weight together before the final choice is made. So, we haven't made any promises beyond researching and talking at this point. But you guys have given us some excellent questions to ask: THANK YOU! I'll let you know what the final choice is in a month or so.</p>
<p>I havn't read the wholw thread but I'll just throw in that as a veteran of driving an hour each way to a school, I would give extra points to the school close to home. As my son got older, the disadvantages of the commute magnified. It was a big chunk out of each day that there were so many better ways he could have used. It impacted social life especially. Of course we mothers will do anything in the name of a good education, but it sure took a bite out of my life and our family life too.</p>
<p>If your son is not happy where he is, perhaps it's fate to save you years of stress!</p>
<p>Good idea to let him do all the research. Is it possible to keep both options on the table until the start of football practice?</p>
<p>If so, it might give him the needed sense of support, but a larger time frame to come to grips with the specfics of what is bothering him about the 'social' scene at the current school. Given a bit more time, he might be able to articulate the 'social' difficulties or points of discomfort. With help, he might be able to devise a few deflective strategies. You might also get a chance to ask a few teachers if they see any 'situations'.</p>
<p>I have been wondering about the downside of 60/40 ratio schools. Once again--and I should know better having been an immigrant twice--it's not The Place that's the problem. </p>
<p>It's the ongoing problem of The Tall Boy Syndrome. It would happen anywhere. Isn't it nice to have good friends to point things out?</p>
<p>There is always the possiblity (likelihood) that your S, (newly buff hunk), will have the same 'social' problems at the local high school. There are girls at the local high school, right? His old friends might offer some protection--but his new status might create new frictions too. Ya never know.</p>
<p>I wonder if he felt more comfortable during the football season. Could he take up a spring sport?</p>
<p>Anyway, more talking is the best tonic. </p>
<p>Sorry to say that the Tall Boy phenomena doesn't appear to get any easier.</p>
<p>Cheers:
Sorry, but I find it difficult to understand your post. What is the "Tall Boy Syndrome"? (sorry if this has already been explained to everyone else and I mssed it). Why would the start of football season have anything to do with this issue? This issue will be resolved in the next few weeks, not in August of 2005, right? What are "deflective strategies"? What are "situations' that local teachers can comment on? What is a "60/40 ratio school"? What do you mean when you say you were "an immigrant twice" and how is that relevant? What do you mean when you say it is "not The Place that's the problem". What is the spring sport all about? Sorry, I just just cannot understand your points.</p>
<p>I'm with the crew that says letting your son find his own guide-star on this is wise. He is obviously a bright and observant kid and he knows he can trust you with his welfare in the largest sense--but he is trying to tell you something that is deep in his own experience that really matters to him. This is the ideal age I think to begin letting a child trust their own inner "gyroscope". (Note I say "begin..." that doesn't mean we're opting out of the process.) And this is a big decision but one that really needs to honor him and his sense of himself. And I imagine if you tried a year at the local school and were seriously dissatisfied you would have an option to return to the private setting. We opted (with many fervid discussions on more than one occasion) for the public/local system--it has it's drawbacks, but other strengths and advantages. My son was admitted ED where he wants to go and our school will send a strong cohort to the Ivies as well. ....Your son will definitely not need the prep school advantage of high powered college guidance (he's got that at breakfast)--and if he chooses the local option he will have a circle of friends and a strong community connection. All of those are part of well-being and life success too.</p>
<p>Sorry RHD/9 posts.</p>
<p>Following up on Carolyn's earlier thread...Advice for sons, dating...in the Parent Cafe. </p>
<p>A 60/40 school refers to the ratio of F to M. </p>
<p>I've been an immigrant twice in my life. IMHO, situational problems do not arise from a place. Problems arise from the adjustment, or non-adjustment a person makes to the place; be it hs, college, foreign country, new company etc... Just my opinion.</p>
<p>If the deposit for the private school has already been paid, then it is possible to delay a final decision until the start of football season. there may be advantages in delaying an emotional decision.</p>
<p>These are just observations for carolyn. She is a smart girl. She will disregard if she wants! No biggie :p</p>
<p>Marite wrote, quoting Carolyn:
[quote]
"I do know from the other parents who have kids at this school that the teachers and admin. are very unresponsive to phone calls and emails from parents."
[/quote]
I think in a public high school setting, the issue is how responsive the teachers are to the STUDENTS. In the culture of public high schools - at least the schools that my kids attended -- students are expected to have the ability to advocate for themselves and make their own decisions as far as course work, and parents are generally contacted only if the kid has gotten into trouble. I had plenty of contact with the vice principal of my strong-willed and outspoken son's high school. ;) So parents who are emailing teachers over noncritical issues -- such as trying to monitor homework assignments -- are generally perceived as overly-involved and overprotective.</p>
<p>So Carolyn's decision to ask her son to ask his peers about the high school is the right one. The kids usually figure the ins and outs of the system - who to talk to, which teachers are best, which need to be avoided, whether their g.c.'s are helpful or not, etc. </p>
<p>Quick anecdote: when my daughter first started at her present high school, a parent of an older kid who had transferred in from private school lamented about how inflexible the school was. She told me that her daughter was excluded from honors/AP English because she had not been there as a freshman, and the classes were all tracked so if a kid didn't get in one year, there was no way to get in later on. I decided to take the parent's comments with a grain of salt, rather than stressing over it -- a good thing, because everything the parent told me was untrue. The trick to getting into the honors/AP English classes each year is to submit an application & why-I-want-this-class essay by a March deadline - which the other parent's daughter probably missed. Whether her daughter told her the true reason or not I'll never know.</p>
<p>Calmom:</p>
<p>In general you are right that teachers should be responsive to students and cut out a lot of the noise from parents.
I extrapolated from my S's non-standard schooling to Carolyn's son. He seems very bright and may well need to access college courses at some point. I don't know what kind of arrangement can be made to provide him with this access.
In my S's case, the teachers, deans, principals, were very happy that S and we had done all the research into the appropriate college courses, and had their schedule available. I was told by the GC that S should select the college classes first, and the school would work around them. And this is what happened. But it involved a fair amount of to and fro.
A lot of parents at our school volunteer their services tutoring, helping with college essays, mentoring in ECs, etc...so there is a two-way flow. But you are right that Carolyn and her S need to think about what it means when parents complain about teachers not being responsive.</p>
<p>This is an interesting thread. We've always included our children in the decision making process of secondary schools. They've attended private schools so they had to take the ISEE, interview, and (in some instances) write an essay as part of their applications. It was a family effort...and, therefore, a family decision. H & I even checked in with each of them in the beginning of 8th grade to ask if they wanted to apply out to another school...again, the decision has been theirs...so far, they have yet to take us up on our offers. Interesting...</p>
<p>carolyn....I feel for you. I went through a version of this last year with my girls, only it was that they wanted to stay at the expensive private school, and I felt that for many reasons the good public school would be better for them and take the huge financial burden off of us. The jury is still out on whether the change was a good idea--in some ways yes, and in others perhaps no--but I really know how agonizing it can be when your child is unhappy at a school and you are part of the decision team.</p>
<p>I think that calmom is right on about the public schools wanting students to advocate for themselves, and this is a difference I think from the private schools. I remember one of our eminent posters saying that private school doesn't necessarily buy you good teachers, but it buys you ACCESS to the teachers. </p>
<p>Also, I think that you can usually find, at any school, some teachers or administrators with whom you will have a strong rapport. It may take a while as many of the most obvious people may just be overburdened with all of their duties and the very difficult situations they face day in and day out with teachers, staff, students, etc., but you will find them (the ones you can talk to at any time). </p>
<p>And a random thought--is it truly only these two choices? Are there any other private schools? Are there intra-district transfers to other better public schools? Or is it that your son wants to be with these particular friends and that is that?</p>
<p>There ARE other choices. An all boys catholic school that is current schools arch rival (that son rejected out of hand last year and now hates even more due to football rivalries), two excellent private schools with tuition more than double what we're paying now (not realistic), and a slightly better public high school in our district where son has two friends. But, honestly, I think if it came between choosing between his current school and one of the others he'd choose his current school (he had the option of going to all of these other schools last year and none of them appealed). So, bottomline is this is a choice between the two schools we've been discussing.</p>
<p>Archermom, Like you, we did include both our kids in the decision making process when looking at high schools. They visited all schools of interest, even sat in on classes, and had a BIG say in their choice. Our son decided he wanted to go to the same high school as his sister last year. He really wasn't interested in the local high school at this point last year. So, it makes perfect sense to involve him in the decision now.</p>
<p>Carolyn, by the time college rolls around your son will be a pro at this! ;) D1 & D2 attended the same secondary school. Everyone assumed that D3 would do the same. But, she is our concrete thinker. So, after much deliberation, H & I bit the bullet and set her on a different path. It was not easy to explain to an 11 yr-old. However, she seems happy and thriving at her new school. In the end, that is what is important.</p>
<p>First Carolyn, have a wonderful trip with your daughter next week. Re: the hour long potential drive back and forth to school....when my kids were in 10th and 11th grade (pre driver's license) I often made the trip back and forth to that school 2 or three times (for after school pick up, and then to drop off and pick up for evening things like play rehearsals, concerts, meetings etc). I hated it and we only live SIX minutes from the school. I can't imagine figuring out a way to budget my time with a school an hour away. Let's face it...you may also need to be at school for things (those football games, any parent meetings in the evening, college nights, etc). Do you REALLY want to be an hour away? I know it can sometimes be a trade off between the better academic program, but your son seems sufficiently motivated to continue his academic successes...and may end up being a happier kid in addition. Once your daughter graduates, you will have one kid in one school in close proximity to your home!</p>
<p>I couldn't imagine having to drive for an hour each way- my daughter attends a school not in our neighborhood- but about 20 minutes away in very optimum conditions. However she rides the yellow bus in the morning- and I pick her up in afternoon- partially because she has not been able to find the afternoon bus ( they double park along street- I have tried to find it myself) and also because she is in after school activities.
But for junior and senior year- they will be relocated in a school in a closer neighborhood while her school building undergoes long awaited renovation. Then she will be able to take a city bus- even if they don't offer yellow bus, that will take just minutes. :)</p>
<p>Carolyn-</p>
<p>I completely understand the problems associated with having your child attend a school that's not in your neighborhood, as my son did this during his K-8 years in a private catholic school - the kind of school where your value is assessed by your last name (the more Italian - the better) and which building you've donated. The school tour for potential new families always included name-dropping of what famous local family donated whatever to have this and that built - ugh! EVERYTHING was far away - movies, dances, friend's homes. It felt as if we lived in two worlds. He could never catch a ride home with anyone. No other parents would carpool with me becuase we were "in the other direction". After that experience, I learned the value of attending school in your own community, which was one of the main deciding factors in choosing his HS. I can't begin to tell you how much of a positive difference we felt after making the change! </p>
<p>I'm with your son - let him go to school closer to home. The only thing I'm a little uncomfortable with is that he wants to go to school with his friends from kindergarten, etc. I would worry that he isn't learning to bond with new people. I don't support K-12 schools for that reason. I think it's important to meet new people and experience different perspectives. Are <em>most</em> of his K-8 friends at the public school? </p>
<p>Anyway, that's the only drawback I see. The benefits far outweigh that issue, IMHO.</p>
<p>My son, after switching to a Quaker school for HS, is stronly opposed to traditional catholic education. He felt that his experience was much too limiting and he hadn't really learned to <em>think</em> until HS (I call this the "listen and repeat" factor). It's nice to know that he can make the distinction between two very different types of education - both fine - and understands that there is value in varied experiences. He also understands that his entrance to college next fall will present yet another experience - probably very different from the first two. </p>
<p>I support allowing your son to choose to move on from what isn't working for him. It's a good life-lesson.</p>
<p>As for the hour+ drive each way - FORGET THAT!</p>
<p>Carolyn have a great trip. Anxious to hear about your son's research and your trip when you return.</p>
<p>Carolyn,</p>
<p>I've not had a chance to read this entire thread, and I don't know how qualified I am to give advice on this issue, but I did want to let you know that we had considered having my oldest son attend an out-of-district school when he entered high school. The reasons were purely academic...the out-of-district school was a law magnet, and there were some unique opportunites available to him that would not be available if he were to attend the in-district school. But, there were also some negative aspects, like many fewer opportunities for extracurriculars. The one deciding factor for us ended up being the social one though. My son had established very close and positive relationships with a good many local friends, and in the end, we felt that the solid foundation that that offered was crucial to his high school success. I am a believer that nothing can derail a high school student faster than his getting in with the wrong crowd. Since the proposed school was a magnet, that would mean that his new friends would be from all over the neighboring city and that it may be more difficult for him to regularly get together with and forge new strong relationships the new friends (we would have had quite a trek to the new school).</p>
<p>I think that what I am trying to say is that I feel like the social component of a high schooler's life is KEY, and if your son is really unhappy where he is, I would very seriously entertain the idea of letting him transfer. In your case, that would also bring the benefit of his being closer to home with less travel time and more opportunity to form friendships with kids who live closer to him. I know this decision is a difficult one, and I wish you and your son all the best as you try to figure out exactly which option is best for him. ~berurah</p>
<p>A friend's son transferred in the middle of his Junior year and never regretted it -- took him a long time to tell his parents how unhappy socially he was with first high school. Change can be positive and I am certain your son will make sure the change is a positive one because it is what he wants to do. He wants to open a new door -- you should let him walk through it.</p>