True no-brainer or just desperate for a pair of rose-colored glasses?

Parent Cafe
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<p>I think that he should seriously consider the CUNY honors admission and if HE likes it, the student should accept it without reservations of how it is going to be paid. What a tremendous opportunity. Sounds like a prestigious scholarship and sounds like something to consider even if he gets other very good opportunities.</p>

<p>To live in NYC almost free, HELLO, who of us wouldn’t think of it. And the student wouldn’t be in debt to anyone, not his grandmother and not his parents really either. </p>

<p>My D accepted a small scholarship, really it was peanuts, but when she told people at her school that she had this, they were envious. She went to a scholarship dinner every year and it was something to be proud of. We also had a HS friend who accepted a BIG scholarship at his school and it came with so many other opportunities that were realized by being one of the chosen. It has spilled over to his post grad years. I think he would have been a success wherever he went, but having that scholarship came with opportunities that were not a part but because he was one of the chosen at his school. His parents could have sent him anywhere and they did spend the big bucks for their other children but it was the opportunities not the prestige which drove the decision. </p>

<p>Also my parents did not pay for any of their grandchildren’s schooling and they were in no shape to either. But they also made head shaking decisions based on the thought that they should make this financial decision because I’m “going to be dead soon anyways”. I think it’s a common assumption. Frustrating.</p>

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<p>My S1 could have gone to more selective schools but took the fullride to big state u. instead (he loved the school…didn’t do it just for the $). He has never regretted it for a second. Graduated w/ no debt. Was able to buy his own home(at the beach!) just before he turned 25. Unless your S is really against it, take the CUNY scholarship.</p>

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<p>Your MIL sounds like a piece of work OP! In your shoes I would write her off as far as extracting any money and spend your energies more profitably: helping your son make a good choice. It does seem like a no brainer…based on what you’ve written about him and the offers he has received, NYC sounds perfect for him.</p>

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<p>No matter how deplorable you may think that G-ma’s actions are, she is entitled to
change her mind and she is not obligated in any way, shape or form to pay for anyone’s education.</p>

<p>One of the best things that you can do is to not count or spend other people’s money.</p>

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<p>OP here. Sorry - I can’t respond to all of the later posts, but I’ll throw a few things out there. Please know that I in no way whatsoever think my MIL’s actions are deplorable, and I am in no way mad at her at all. This will not harm our relationship - but it has taught me an important lesson going forward with the next child. Regardless of what anyone says they’re going to do, we need to count on only ourselves. Having anything more than we (DH and I) personally can provide will end up being an unexpected bonus. I do believe that MIL would love to cover these college expenses, but at the same time I think now that the time has come, she doesn’t want to actually part with the money. (That’s why I think these other kooky final-hour ideas are coming up about putting the money in an investment (like the multi-unit house rental) whereby the returns will cover the college costs and eventually she can get the original money back.) It’s her decision. That’s fine. I just wish I hadn’t had my head so deep in the sand going into this process. Yes, I’ve been a bit frustrated with all involved (myself included), but being angry at anyone isn’t going to change or help the situation. I am NOT going to be asking MIL for any money to help us with this. Like poetgrl said, if she gives, she gives, and it will be unprodded - and much appreciated as well. Unfortunately, my nature is such that it’s easier for me to be angry at myself than anyone else, and my struggle this past month or so has been in trying to cut myself some slack.</p>

<p>I feel so incredibly fortunate that given all of this, S has the options he does have at this point. And yes, I needed reassurance (since I’ve been all discombobulated lately!) that they really are wonderful options - especially the Macaulay one, that has seemed for the last couple of days to maybe be too good of an opportunity to even be true. So many of have provided that reassurance - thank you!!</p>

<p>Last night, I made our hotel reservation, so we will be headed down to NYC in a few weeks, and I’m keeping my fingers crossed that S also decides that this is a no-brainer. :))))))</p>

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<p>I guess I’m alone in thinking that the MIL is not a terrible person. It seems to me that she may have made the initial offer without realizing how terribly expensive college has become. When the OP’s husband began talking actual numbers, she may have begun second-guessing her original decision. Remember, there are 4 grandkids in this family, not just this one. She presumably wants to help all 4 of them and not play favorites with OP’s S1. If she blows it all on his college, there will be nothing left for the younger kids.</p>

<p>I can sympathize with what the OP is going through because my own mother made a similar offer when my two sons were in HS. She had a pretty good investment portfolio but her money had to last another 25 years or so. There was plenty of money for the grandkids (4 in all, counting my sister’s kids) after she died, but she got cold feet about giving so much of it away while she was living. I completely understood and agreed with her. She compromised by putting money into a 529 account for each grandchild, with the understanding that she could take it back if she needed it to live on. We went forward with college decisions based on that. S1 got a full ride to the state flagship and S2 got a half-tuition award to a top 20 U, so everything worked out. We simply didn’t consider any schools that we couldn’t have paid for ourselves if Mom’s money had not been available.</p>

<p>I think fosterte’s son is in a pretty good place right now. He has 3 affordable options and the possibility of his grandmother’s help if the dream schools accept him.</p>

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<p>fosterte - I think you are making a wise choice in visiting, I would like to think that your son will fall in love (or deep like, sounds like he is an easy going laid back kid so love may be too strong of a word!) with the school. To live in NYC as a young person is an incredible experience for the right kid!!!</p>

<p>I think the lesson you are showing your son is equally important. Self reliance will almost always be the right decision. There are always hard choices to make from a financial perspective, and not taking on a debt that can be avoided is smart. </p>

<p>I have a feeling you are also not bashing your MIL in front of him, so his relationship with her will not be harmed. That would also be a smart choice, in the long run.</p>

<p>I hope your son falls in love with this college and you can spend the rest of the summer enjoying the process of readying him for school. Sending your first off is hard enough without this added stress.</p>

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<p>Fosterte, I think this has been a very instructive thread for a lot of us. I am taking away the following:</p>

<p>1) What parents owe most to their children in the realm of college assistance for their grandchildren are a) careful consideration of promises before they are made and b) straightforward and honest communication.
2) When DH and I arrive at the grandparent stage (still many years from now–I hope!), we will give to 529s in the parents’ names and there will be no questions.</p>

<p>I hope you will update the thread as your, son’s, and mil’s decisions unroll!</p>

<p>Re Post #75: Atomom–Wear that ring with triumph!</p>

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<p>Fosterte - your opening post was NOT ridiculously long; I found it thoughtful, focused, and appropriate.</p>

<p>I also believe you should explore the possiblity of investing in rental real estate to cover your kids’ college expenses if your MIL is ready, willing, and able to make that type of investment in her grandchildren’s educations.</p>

<p>As I understand it, the idea would be for her to purchase rental property and then use the cash flow to pay the college expenses. After the college expenses were paid, she’d still own the rental property, which could then be sold (hopefully at a profit) or retained for continued income.</p>

<p>It’s a great plan and depending on your MIL’s financial circumstances, it might be viable.</p>

<p>The numbers would work something like this:</p>

<p>Presumably she would pay cash for it. Assuming she could buy a property with a 6% cap rate, a $750,000 investment would yield $45,000 per year, which would about cover college costs for one kid. The net rental income should rise along with inflation, so the income might even keep up with increasing college costs. If your kids are spaced perfectly on four year intervals, one $750,000 investment could presumably cover all their expenses, and at the end of the process the apartments would remain, still producing cash flow.</p>

<p>Maybe this is what she has in mind. My mother would love to offer her grandchildren something like this, probably believes that she could, and might even believe that she does. But she couldn’t and doesn’t. Her finances are managed by a trustee, who is careful to be sure she has enough in her account to send her college attending grandchildren a generous monthly allowance, for which they (and we) are grateful.</p>

<p>The thank you notes mean A LOT to her.</p>

<p>Fosterte- you sound like an intelligent, rational, and thoughtful daughter-in-law, wife, and mother. I’m wishing you the best.</p>

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<p>Fosterte, I admire your attitude about this whole thing, and think that it is by far the most constructive way to proceed and to live. I don’t think you have anything to beat yourself up about. Your S has several affordable options, and the Macaulay program sounds fantastic for the right kid. From what you say about your S, it sounds as if he is PRECISELY the right kid. I hope he decides to go with it.</p>

<p>BTW, I don’t think your first post was too long at all. It is much better to lay the whole thing out in the first place, rather than to–as many unfortunately do–post something short and ambiguous and make everyone extract information bit by bit! :)</p>

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<p>Folks may have the entitlement to change their mind when it comes to making promises. </p>

<p>On the other hand, those who ended up being left in the lurch or who feel such flaky changing of the mind is an indication of a negative character trait, especially if it’s done at the last minute are entitled to holding the mind-changer’s actions against him/her. </p>

<p>This negative reaction is a common natural one…even among those in industries where frequent-mind changing and flakiness is stereotypically endemic like the music business. I’ve lost count of how many rants my musician friends made about past unreliable band members who changed their mind too often or flaked out on showing up to practices or even live paid gigs. </p>

<p>And those flaky band members had the chutzpah to feel hurt and even angry when called on their flakiness and even fired from the band for it.</p>

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<p>Well, they’re not going to fire grandma.</p>

<p>OP–this sure sounds like a no brainer to me. I would think the Hunter program would eclipse all the others, including ones that may have seemed like top picks before.</p>

<p>I don’t see the need to quiz MIL further about this and I really don’t think OP’s S should be laying it on the line with grandma. I think the happy news could be given to her and if she offers to contribute, things like travel costs and other expenses could be offered as possibilities.</p>

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<p>I applaud the efforts the OP is going through for her child as well as the class and grace she demonstrates towards her lying and cheap mother in-law.</p>

<p>I must say I’m in slack jawed disbelief at how many parents wrote it’s just find for a parent to promise something vitally important to their child and then change their minds… after that child has made decisions based on that trusted promise and is now somewhat dependent on that promise being fulfilled.</p>

<p>And again, this is in the context of this MIL having all the means necessary to easily fulfill her promise. This was implied in the OP’s first post and confirmed by the OP later, so none of that “maybe she has sticker shock… maybe she doesn’t have the money… etc…” She made a promise which she can afford to keep. She is not keeping that promise. This is pretty simple.</p>

<p>I’d like all of you who said this MIL is perfectly within her rights to change her mind to look at their own child tonight and think about doing something similar to them. Go ahead, look them straight in the eyes and promise them something that is vitally important to them. It’s OK. You can change your mind later, no problem. In the mean time, you can bask in the warmth of your child’s appreciation. If you promise something years out, you’ll be able to enjoy this for years to come.</p>

<p>And when you change your mind, just when they need it the most, they shouldn’t be hurt at all by your fickle behavior. Heck, it’s actually their fault for counting on you in the first place! How foolish they were for believing in their dad or mom!</p>

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<p>Maikai, get a grip.</p>

<p>I would not do this- and I take it from your post that you wouldn’t either, but it’s not like Grandma promised GS a kidney and is now reneging.</p>

<p>It was a generous offer which for reasons beyond anyone’s knowledge or control is now off the table. The OP and her son prudently came up with a terrific Plan B based on their own resources, and the son has shown enormous maturity in casting a wide net of schools without seemingly getting caught up in “Dream school” or “I don’t care how much debt we take on but I must go to college X”.</p>

<p>Nobody can tell MIL how to spend her money and the OP has wisely and graciously admitted as much. Nobody SHOULD be judging MIL since we have no idea what her circumstances are. So pull your slack jaw up.</p>

<p>I know SO MANY FAMILIES who devote so much time and energy to figuring out which elderly relative can or should or must pay for whatever. I know SO MANY FAMILIES who end up in the lurch when the promised or intended or suggested payout doesn’t happen. For all you know, the MIL’s lawyer told her that it was a very bad idea to do for one grandchild what she couldn’t do for them all (many lawyers advise clients NOT to divide resources unevenly since it can cause huge problems and resentments long after the party is dead and can’t explain him or herself.) And you don’t know if there are other grandchildren besides these four. For all you know, the MIL just bought long term care insurance-- at a very high rate- to spare this DIL from having to quit her job to take care of her if she becomes incapacitated.</p>

<p>You don’t know, and it’s none of our business.</p>

<p>But this kid has some terrific choices; the parents are living in the world of reality; Macauley is a fantastic option and the price can’t be beat. What is to be gained from beating the dead horse of grandma’s missing contribution?</p>

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<p>Congrats OP on having and making great choices due tithe ambiguity you are facing. Am glad you and your family are retaining a good relationship with MIL. </p>

<p>Sticker shock is common for folks who haven’t priced Us recently. None of my relatives can believe how much we pay annually at D’s U where we are full freight. </p>

<p>My sister IL didn’t promise but did help us with our kid’s Ed and college expenses. It was much appreciated. Many expected better returns on investments than they have gotten and yes, they live longer than they expected. Outliving assets is a real fear many share these days.</p>

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<p>I would weigh in more, but O feel OP asked us not to. However, I do think people are obligated to keep offers. I foolishly believed my own mother too.</p>

<p>I do agree that all is well, though, and the issue is not worth pursuing.</p>

<p>OP: Please let us know how your son fares and what he decides.</p>

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<p>One issue to consider is if you and H would be in a position to help MIL if she runs out of assets if she helps your kiddos with college? It’s hard to truly know the finances of others and what they may need going forward, especially as her family is very long-lived.</p>

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<p>blossom, get a grip. :-)</p>

<p>Let’s go further. If doctors would take it, I’d promise my very heart for my child. </p>

<p>But I understand what you were attempting to say and think I see the disconnect. It’s about money. You and most others saying the same thing, seem to be fixated on the idea that the MIL is not wealthy enough to easily afford her promise. Even though the OP implied her MIL was wealthy in her first post and confirmed that fact in a later post. You guys still envision some little biddy cracking open her penny jar to pay for her promise. You imagine some kind elderly saintly lady making a mistake. </p>

<p>“Oh my!” she says, putting her delicate hand to her open mouth, as she is startled by how large the bill is.</p>

<p>Poppycock. I’m taking the OP’s story at face value. I’m not injecting any nonsense. From the OP’s writing, the husband has had a conversation with his mom at least twice and come away without any reasonable answer about what she’s doing or why she’s doing it. </p>

<p>She doesn’t tell her son it’s too much money. She doesn’t say I can’t pay for all I promised, but this is what I can pay for. No. She plays coy… keeps her son and daughter in-law guessing about what she’ll do. She suggests the son work for her to get the money… that is essentially what buying a house and having her son be landlord is… a job. His pay will be the money she contributes to his child.</p>

<p>Yeah, this MIL sounds just great! :-&lt;/p>

<p>From what I’m reading, this is a wealthy woman, in full control of her mental faculties, and ready to manipulate her child. First she promised a very substantial thing, half the bill to educate four grandchildren, and basked in the appreciation of such a promise for years. And when the time came for the first child to attend the first year of college, suddenly ol’ grandma has a job for sonny-boy. Surprise! You have to work for me to get any of that money.</p>

<p>Perhaps if less “poor little grandma” assumptions were injected into what seems to be a very simple story of a parent’s betrayal, my point would be more clear to more people.</p>

<p>I wonder if it would have made a difference to any of you if the OP would have said it was her father in-law that made the promise and is now reneging? I wonder if so many would be cutting a man such a break.</p>

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<p>mythmom–I absolutely agree that people should honor their commitments and this was one made over a long period of time and then withdrawn, after college apps were sent out based on those promises. Fortunately OP had the great good sense to make sure her son had options and you pulled it out for your kids too. The grandmas should never have made these offers and then changed their minds, but they did.</p>

<p>maikai–maybe this was manipulative behavior by grandma or maybe not, but there’s nothing to be gained by anger and name-calling at this point. Sounds like maybe you’ve experienced betrayal yourself and you hate to see it happen to someone else.</p>

<p>OP is taking the high road, her son has great options and she has learned a lot.</p>

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<p>It’s also possible how strongly some of us feel about it may also be due to our MBTI personality types. </p>

<p>One thing about mine[ENTJ] is that we tend to have very little tolerance for anyone making promises and then flaking out on them. </p>

<p>Other personality types may be much more forgiving.</p>