Trying to love the kid on the couch (high school sophomore)

Parents Forum
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<p>WHAT IS MY KID DOING IN YOUR HOUSE???</p>

<p>We have very similar sons and very similar home situations. Here’s what we’re doing that seems to work. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>Don’t underestimate the need for counseling even if there doesn’t appear to be anything “wrong.” At one point we told our son: you need help figuring out why you can’t wrap your mind around simple processes such as writing down assignments. Why you underperform in school. Why you’re so disorganized. I firmly believe that my son is at some level intimidated by his dad’s success, and truly doesn’t believe in his abilities or intelligence. A counselor has been helping him with both, and at the very least, has become unbiased and trusted confidant. </p></li>
<li><p>Make at least one EC mandatory. We told our son that unless he picks an EC we will do it for him, telling him we’d enroll him in a weekend volunteer program. That worked, since he wanted his weekends mostly free for socializing and snowboarding. Last year it was just one EC, but he went regularly and somewhat to his surprise enjoyed it. </p></li>
<li><p>Limit his reason to sit on the couch. (Or in front of any screen.) Told our son that unless he has As and Bs, he can only use the computer for homework. At night we disable it by taking the modem and mouse. This way he can’t stay up late on Facebook/video games. We also disable the TV so he can’t stay up watching. This forces him to try to do better in school and as result spend less time loafing - his natural inclination. </p></li>
<li><p>Take him on college visits. There’s nothing like seeing kids live in a dorm, on their own, in a cool college setting - and then being told what they had to do to get there. </p></li>
<li><p>Stay firm, but loving and supportive. This is crucial. Applaud all signs of improvement even if in the grand scheme of things they seem microscopic. Be interested in their school work - have them explain some concept he’s studying in science, or talk about a book he’s reading in lit. Check out movies based on the literature/history your child is studying - and watch them together. The more interest you show in his work the less he’ll feel it’s his burden, and his alone. </p></li>
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<p>Finally, do keep reminding yourself that there are many ways toward adult success, and that top-grades-top-university is just one of them. When he does come out of his adolescent fog, your son is likely to find a passion and/or focus, and in this society will also find ways of maximizing them. A community college (if that’s where he’s limited to going) can lead to a good university which can lead to good grad school. It’s all doable… even with a mediocre high school experience.</p>

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<p>^I like that. </p>

<p>With regard to “therapy”, I often refer to “coaches” for organizational, time management, and procrastination problems, for folks who wonder about “ADHD”, with or without that actual “diagnosis”.</p>

<p>Making electronics off limits always leads back to reading for my son.</p>

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<p>If he likes cooking, can he take a cooking class somewhere? Sometimes recreation centers or community colleges have specialized classes like learning to crochet/knit, cooking, learning about computers, etc.</p>

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<p>OP- I mean this lovingly.</p>

<p>Your son looks at his successful and athletic younger brother, his highly educated parents, and decides he’s going to be his own man. Fine- not at all unusual. </p>

<p>I don’t know who decided that he was a skater dude-- or when that self-image took hold, but now you’re all stuck with it until something else comes to replace it. Life tends to be quite self-fulfilling- whether you are 15 or 50.</p>

<p>There are lots of kids who skate who are also interested in fixing cars or racing sailboats or playing in a jazz ensemble or writing a blog and a weekly column in the local paper about alternative arts in the community. So why is your son just a skater, and these kids get to be all these other things as well???</p>

<p>I am sure you are working at full throttle to get him to change. And I’m sure writing checks for a private school when he seemed determined to sabotage himself hurt plenty. But when plan A is clearly not working, you move to plan B. And from what you’ve told us, pushing hard at the academics seems to be the non-functioning plan A. Get him successful and interested in something- anything- build on the relationship with the organic farmer (a radicchio dude?); get him volunteering with younger kids; he’s clearly not afraid to get his hands dirty.</p>

<p>Did you take a family vacation this summer and if so, where did you go? Does he get to weigh in on “outings” occasionally- which movie, a play, something fun??? Have you offered to take him to a concert that he otherwise wouldn’t get to go to (far away or inconvenient or expensive) in exchange for spending an evening doing something you like to do? You can take ear plugs to his concert! A friend of mine swapped an evening at “Rent” for a night at La Boheme and even her cynical “I would rather die than go to the Opera” son is still talking about their evenings out on the town.</p>

<p>You need to spend more time with him, not less, despite the fact that he is signaling that he prefers the friends. So have you suggested doing something with the friends? Tractor Pull, ballgame, waterpark??? Get him out of the house!!!</p>

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<p>My son, who is now 25, was very similar at that age. In fact, they sound identical-- identical behavior, interests. My H & I also did very much the same things as you, including having him tested for learning disorders (he turned out to have mild ADHD,supposedly). </p>

<p>Looking back, I believe the most important thing is to be consistent in what kind of behavior you want from him. You need to be very clear about what your values are. He learns this from your every day behavior and your consistency in expectations from him. The details (making him get a job, having him see a counselor, sitting with him while he does his HW, etc.) matter less than the overall message you send by doing all this: that HE matters, you have expectations and standards for him, and YOU CARE. </p>

<p>If you can, and I know this is a tall order, try not to focus on college. It will only reinforce the fear/resistance pattern in him. Don’t worry about his future so much. If he can feel successful, and by that, I mean a sense of satisfaction, not GPA, about today, this week, this school year, then the future will take care of itself.</p>

<p>Approach him with a clean slate, so that your interactions with him are not about his failures, as you have perceived them. </p>

<p>I’m not surprised that he doesn’t want to join a school club. I’ve noticed that a lot of boys who skateboard are the ones who don’t like team sports. With skateboarding, you don’t have the pressure of the team, only the challenge of mastering the kickflip or whatever stunt he is working on. (It’s actually very Zen. He is probably learning a lot about focus and learning from mistakes.) They tend to skate with another boy or two and practice side by side. One thing they love to do is to videotape each other while skating. I bet he would be thrilled if you lent or gave him a videocamera. Even though skaters have a slacker image, my feeling was that you can’t nail those tricks if you’re stoned or drunk, so at least while he’s out there skating, he’s probably not partaking. (Later, at night, was unfortunately a different story.)</p>

<p>My son, like yours, was not acting out aggressively. He just didn’t work at school, and he sulked a lot. During his HS years, my son gradually quit doing everything he had formally been interested in, except skateboarding and grafitti. He never read a book. He barely graduated from HS. And he STILL got into 4 out of 5 middle tier LAC colleges he applied to. He went for one semester, realized that he would have to take classes just like in HS, and quit. He eventually went back to a state university where he did OK, in a major he loved (graphic design), and left after 3 years, 3 academic credits short of a diploma. He has taken the things he loved in HS— street culture, skateboarding, and has turned it into a livelihood. (We did require that he work every summer so he has had his share of dirty jobs. Nothing quite as motivating as dried fish guts, as in he had to clean fishing boats.)</p>

<p>I realize that this will not be the course for most alienated HS skateboarding dudes. But my point is that it’s important to recognize what HE values, as long as it is not self destructive. And don’t give up. Eventually, he will mature into a work ethic, although probably not until in his twenties. Then you will see the same person he was before all this started.</p>

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<p>The advice you’ve received is varied, but every step of the way keep telling yourself to love the kid on the couch, no matter what.</p>

<p>I know a guy who is brilliant. He got into a great school but dropped out after a semester. That caused a rift with his Ivy educated father that persisted until the father’s dying day. The dad wanted nothing to do with him. </p>

<p>The guy truly has zero ambition. He has a decent job where he has to do a minimum amount of work. He could have a better job but doesn’t want any more responsiblity. He has rented the same apartment for 20 years…he probably could have bought the whole complex in the rent he’s paid but he doesn’t want to own a home.</p>

<p>BUT, he’s a well read, interesting guy who’s a pleasure to be around. To his dad he was an utter failure because he didn’t “accomplish anything.” The guy is perfectly content and it was his father who lost out.</p>

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<p>As a mom with an S with ADD this screams ADD and compensatory behavior to me. Could be wrong, but that’s what comes across.</p>

<p>My S was extremely hard to diagnose. He took an extensive computer test and scored within normal parameters, which meant that he compensated well.</p>

<p>However, his nurse-practitioner (who specialized in neurological disturbances of children) asked for a clinical report from the tester.</p>

<p>Her response was long, the thickest Nurse Maureen had ever seen. S showed some much anxiety during the text (very boring and routine) that it was a giveaway that it was a great strain for him.</p>

<p>He improved greatly on ADD meds.</p>

<p>This might not be true for your son, but I think it’s too soon to rule out.</p>

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<p>Alot of good advice Blossom. A good friend of my son’s is now a videographer (with a college degree) from their days of making videos of their skating. Two others designed a new kind of longboard and now have a budgeoning little company. Fortunately in our town longboarding is a fairly clean-cut thing and a major means of transport, but definitely the kids are very laid back about everything including school. I saw with delight that the most out there, long haired, long boarder from last year’s senior class is at an Ivy this year which is pretty rare in our neck of the woods, so I agree with Blossom that it’s important not to generalize too much. I totally agree about spending time one on one with sons. It’s always very special no matter if it’s a casual dinner when everybody else is gone or tied up or an early college trip. I cherish my one-on-one time with the boys and learn so much about what makes them tick, what they are really interested in. I just let them talk and I do alot of listening.</p>

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<p>This is a great idea! I wish my parents had made me do this.</p>

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<p>For what it’s worth, I’m ADD (diagnosed at age 50), older S is ADHD, and younger son is ADD.</p>

<p>I’ve lived a reasonably successful life despite only being on meds about a year. (I hated being on meds, so use them rarely – about once a year – when I have an unusual amount of things to do that require high levels of organization). Younger S is doing fine in school without meds. Once he became motivated to get good grades (because he wanted to keep the merit scholarship he got at the LAC that he loves), he found effective ways of organizing himself. Older S is so super organized in the office job that he takes a lot of pride in that he has had 3 promotions in 2 years.</p>

<p>When they were in high school, I also paid lots of money for therapy and organizational counseling for my sons. None seemed to make a dent in their behavior because they were happy with themselves as they were. </p>

<p>Meds, etc. can be very effective for people with ADD or ADHD. However, if they aren’t troubled by their difficulties with organization, it’s not likely that the meds will make much difference from my experience.</p>

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<p>“My son, like yours, was not acting out aggressively. He just didn’t work at school, and he sulked a lot. During his HS years, my son gradually quit doing everything he had formally been interested in, except skateboarding and grafitti. He never read a book. He barely graduated from HS. And he STILL got into 4 out of 5 middle tier LAC colleges he applied to.”</p>

<p>Mousegray-- I found that amazing, and comforting! What was his GPA, do you remember?</p>

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<p>Please let me clarify: I certainly don’t think that ADHD meds are a cure-all. The student still has to “want” to do the work and put effort into it. However, when you are dealing with multiple LD’s (and a lot of them have symptoms that overlap) it can be hard to tell if a person really has ADHD, even if the person running the testing is certified and especially if the student is also gifted. What we were told is that ADHD meds would not help the originally diagnosed LD and they didn’t. What the meds did do was help my DD get her focus back so she could learn to compensate for the original LD. She works way harder than most kids to keep herself organized and will always have to do that. But it’s a lot easier to do without having constant “shiny” moments :)</p>

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<p>I think this is not a great approach; it turns reading into a chore, rather than recognizing it as the pleasure it can be. We have a bookshelf in the bathroom, stocked with comic books (Foxtrot, Dilbert, etc.) and more serious works, too.</p>

<p>The misplaced papers, etc. sounds like an executive functioning disorder. Of course, the kid just might not care, truly! (Mine has an executive functioning disorder AND he doesn’t care!)</p>

<p>Instead of having your son find a dirty, smelly job, I think I’d be more inclined to help him find one at which he will excel. Is there a skating store or skatepark near you? If there’s no skating park, maybe he and his skating buds can petition local authorities to create one, and try to raise money for one. </p>

<p>He already has things he loves to do – I think working with his interests might lead to a better outcome than trying to push him into something he’s not interested in.</p>

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<p>That was me in high school too. I did get into some tier 3 schools, maybe a tier 2. They were good schools and I liked them, but I went to community college to give myself more time to mature. Then I transferred to Umich. So it worked out in the end. Some people just “get it” about school being important sooner than others, unfortunately. I got a major wake up call sophomore year at CC when I’d done the bare minimum to pass Spanish 1 freshman year only to find that I’d gotten the grade but hadn’t learned anything, and had to drop Spanish 2 or fail. Then I realized that hell, I actually have to do things and learn and stuff! Crazy! I’ve been a totally different person ever since. Left CC with a 3.7, a slew of community service hours and clubs, and move to Ann Arbor in four days.</p>

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<p>^Great story! My son actually said the same thing about Spanish !</p>

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<p>There are different pedagogical approaches for different learners. Your son could learn some physics through his love of skateboarding. He enjoyed farming. I’d take it from there. He could learn some biology, chemistry, etc… through his interest in farming. He might like to read up on farm life, farm policy, organic farming, whatever.<br>
I never told my Ss that they must read “classics” or “books that are likely to be on the curriculum” or “important books.” I let them read whatever took their fancy. S2 was bored by the literary standards but was seldom without a book on subjects dear to his heart (math, science, fantasy and sci-fi).
Learn to love the kid on the couch; but also learn how to teach the kid on the couch.</p>

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<p>“Please let me clarify: I certainly don’t think that ADHD meds are a cure-all. The student still has to “want” to do the work and put effort into it. However, when you are dealing with multiple LD’s (and a lot of them have symptoms that overlap) it can be hard to tell if a person really has ADHD, even if the person running the testing is certified and especially if the student is also gifted. What we were told is that ADHD meds would not help the originally diagnosed LD and they didn’t. What the meds did do was help my DD get her focus back so she could learn to compensate for the original LD. She works way harder than most kids to keep herself organized and will always have to do that. But it’s a lot easier to do without having constant “shiny” moments”</p>

<p>I am considered gifted and have ADD and dyscalculia, and I second everything you’ve said. I have really poor self discipline anyway and REALLY have to push myself, if I am unwilling to do it no amount of medication will fix the unwillingness. But the meds make it possible for me to push that hard if I am willing to get things done. And in math, that was REALLY important if I stood any chance of making it. Without that ability to focus my dyscalculia is MUCH worse, I can barely function. And so much with the ADD overlaps with dyscalculia that it was really difficult to get the latter properly diagnosed, and it’s always odd to see what symptoms change with my meds and which don’t.</p>

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<p>I think you miss my point. It wasn’t his GPA that got him into college (I’m pretty sure) but that he was able to show that he was capable of being a creative, hard working kid, despite his poor school performance. He had photos and sketch plans for a “skate park” he built in the back yard (by himself, with salvaged wood) as well as other examples of things he pursued on his own that were well outside of academics. </p>

<p>The best chance your son has for getting into a decent college where he will thrive, or if he doesn’t want to go to college, for a happy productive life, is to be supported by his family in the ways that matter to him, right now. He probably feels like the black sheep, given that you and your H and S2 are all academically gifted. </p>

<p>I know how hard this is. I’ve been there. I had to gradually let go of certain assumptions, that my S would be a terrific student, get into a great college, have a stellar academic career, etc. I come from a family of academics, so this was really difficult for me. I just didn’t have any other perspective. </p>

<p>One thing that really helped was to see his peers graduate from top colleges and realize that after all was said and done (school-wise, anyway), they were no happier than he was. I don’t mean that they were unhappy, but that their academic successes didn’t ensure smooth sailing after graduation.</p>

<p>As for my son’s GPA, I honestly don’t remember but I do recall he graduated in the bottom quarter of his class (in a public school).</p>

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<p>BfloGal – My sympathies. As you can see from the responses you have received, a lot of us have been in the same boat with our sons. </p>

<p>I completely identified with your thought that surely he’d be showing some signs of maturity “by now.” I just sent mine off to college and I think it is very much up in the air whether he’ll make it successfully through his freshman year (or even 1st semester).</p>

<p>At some point, you can only give them the foundation to succeed and make sure that their actions have consequences. They are responsible for their own lives.</p>

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<p>I have to laugh just a little remembering my threat to “change the locks” one day when my 2nd son was like this. It was so aggravating to see a mostly A/B student blow off school with his “who cares” attitude. But he did grow up… he still isn’t the most dedicated hard worker and will try to get by with as little work as possible. He did have a part-time job waiting tables and came to realize what it can be like to work hard and get paid so little. </p>

<p>When I toured the Naval Academy last year with an 8th grade group, our tour guide was the former director of admissions. He gave the kids an impromptu 5 minute lecture on what it takes to get admitted to the Naval Academy and then branched off to tell the kids that in most cases, just 8 years could make a world of difference in how they spent the REST of their life. He said the 4 years of HS and the 4 years of college would directly affect how they got to spend the next 50+ years. Work really hard and those 50+ years could be really, really comfortable. Blow it off, and you may be scrimping, saving, and doing without for those 50+ years. I don’t know how much the 8th graders got out of it, but I made sure to tell my 2 older kids. Sometimes, you can make a statement like that in passing and it will sink in to the kid later. </p>

<p>And, no, I never did change the locks, haha.</p>