UC Davis vs. UCSD

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - GENERAL
81

<p>
[quote]
UCB has four year housing guaranteed and UCLA is almost there.

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No, UCB has only two years of housing guaranteed. The last two years are given through a lottery. I don't know about UCLA, though.</p>

<p>I think tastybeef et al are right---UCSD is generally perceived to be better at the biological sciences. Moreover, there are a number of jobs for biology graduates in the area, so it's also convenient for job-seekers. This is not to say the OP should definitely chose UCSD over Davis, as there may be other factors that sway her to like either school.</p>

82

<p>If UCSD only provides housing for freshman students, then why am I being asked to provide $650.00 deposit next week to secure my sons second year housing ??? Seems to me that too many people on this thread are posting "opinions" rather than facts!! Truth be told, UCSD provides housing for both years if wanted! Second year students are offered "apartment" type living on campus with a meal plan, which is a great transition to living on their own their junior and senior years.</p>

83

<p>ucmhopeful I didn't say that 2nd year housing is not available. I said that the majority of students who live on UCSD's campus are freshman.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Perceived prestige can only impress people who aren't familiar with the field. If you want to impress people within your own field who can actually help with your career, then go with the credible rankings and not this useless perceived prestige.

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</p>

<p>tastybeef I'm going to have to disagree with the way you have worded your assertions here. It comes across that you are suggesting that a UCD biology graduate will be unimpressive in their field to employers or graduate schools. You are absolutely full of hot air. Employers and graduate schools are going to look at a host of infomation such as a graduates GPA, choice of courses, involvment in research, internships, relevant job experience, recommendations, exam scores, interview/communication skills and ability to work as a member of a team. A well prepared graduate of UC Davis will have every bit as much opportunity as a well prepared graduate of UCSD. Well prepared students will by graduation have developed a battery of skills – in part through studying Biological Sciences and in part through being a tertiary student generally.</p>

<p>As to job availability there are jobs in the biological sciences all over the state as well as throughout the country. Options include working as a Research Scientist or a Laboratory Technician – for universities; hospitals and health boards; pharmaceutical companies; biotechnology firms; health product manufacturers; government; research institutes; environmental organisations; the utilities and the like. Equally, a graduate may be interested in options in medical sales; clinical trials; science teaching production management; scientific or environmental consultancy or advisory work. Not forgetting environmental health officer; biological or physical scientist or bacteriologist. </p>

<p>It is also important to understand that career opportunities in some areas, and in some roles are dependent not only on applicants having certain skills and knowledge, but also on personal qualities and attributes such as interpersonal and leadership potential. Such qualities can have a significant influence on the entry level into a company or organisation, or career progression within it. In other words, in many positions it's not just your brains that will land you a job.</p>

<p>I will again state that choosing a college should involve a process that goes much further than a ranking of a few degrees. Make sure that you like the campus. Make sure you will be happy with the lifestyle and activities of that campus. Spend time and visit. Use the school's online resources to make sure that there are major programs that suit your interests. Remember that some of the skills you will need to land a job are developed studying within your degree program, while others will be developed through extra-curricular activity such as sports, community, or cultural groups. It all matters.</p>

84

<p>
[quote]
UCB has four year housing guaranteed

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</p>

<p>This was probably true in the 70's, but it's certainly not true now.</p>

<p>
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tastybeef I'm going to have to disagree with the way you have worded your assertions here. It comes across that you are suggesting that a UCD biology graduate will be unimpressive in their field to employers or graduate schools.

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</p>

<p>Well, I can't agree with the premise of your post since it is taken out of the context and a logical fallacy. I've never said that UCD biology graduates cannot impress future employers/grad schools. What I said is they cannot impress employers/grad schools based solely on the perceived strength of Davis' biology program. The perceived strength of Davis' biology program can impress the layperson, but it cannot impress employers/grad schools who actually know the rankings.</p>

<p>I agree with the content of your post, with this exceptions: becoming a Research Scientist or an adviser/consultant with only a BA/BS.</p>

<p>This won't happen 99.99999% of the time. The position of Research Scientist is quite difficult to obtain. You cannot simply work in a lab and call yourself a Research Scientist. Research Scientists have PhD's and significant amount of research experience, in addition to numerous publications. You'd have to be quite an extraordinary PhD holder to be a Research Scientist, let alone someone with a BA/BS.</p>

<p>As for being a consultant/adviser, this rarely ever happens. Very few companies will get consultation from people with BA/BS's. Most of them will get consultation from well-known professors at universities. They would much rather have the expert opinions of prominent researchers than the basic knowledge someone with BS/BA would have. A recent issue that has surfaced stems from the nature of this selectivity of consultants/advisers. Many Harvard Med school professors (all have PhD's or sometimes MD AND PhD's) serve as consultants for companies and unfortunately, they bring their advising work into the classroom. You can read about that here:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/03/business/03medschool.html?_r=1&emc=eta1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/03/business/03medschool.html?_r=1&emc=eta1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And remember, you can develop interpersonal skills and any other vital career skills in any college setting, not just UCD or UCSD, but everywhere.</p>

85

<p>Hey smitapita, </p>

<p>Both UCs are great, and I highly suggest visiting both schools before making a final decision. You can't go wrong with either one. :)</p>

86

<p>
[quote]
What I said is they cannot impress employers/grad schools based solely on the perceived strength ofDavis' biology program. The perceived strength of Davis' biology program can impress the layperson, but it cannot impress employers/grad schools who actually know the rankings.

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</p>

<p>Students don't approach employers/grad schools based solely on the perceived strength of the ranking of their school, no matter where they attend or work. This is not even a valid point. </p>

<p>
[quote]
The perceived strength of Davis' biology program can impress the layperson, but it cannot impress employers/grad schools who actually know the rankings.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I completely disagree with you. This is a false assertion.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I agree with the content of your post, with this exceptions: becoming a Research Scientist or an adviser/consultant with only a BA/BS.</p>

<p>This won't happen 99.99999% of the time. The position of Research Scientist is quite difficult to obtain. You cannot simply work in a lab and call yourself a Research Scientist. Research Scientists have PhD's and significant amount of research experience, in addition to numerous publications. You'd have to be quite an extraordinary PhD holder to be a Research Scientist, let alone someone with a BA/BS.</p>

<p>As for being a consultant/adviser, this rarely ever happens. Very few companies will get consultation from people with BA/BS's. Most of them will get consultation from well-known professors at universities. They would much rather have the expert opinions of prominent researchers than the basic knowledge someone with BS/BA would have. A recent issue that has surfaced stems from the nature of this selectivity of consultants/advisers. Many Harvard Med school professors (all have PhD's or sometimes MD AND PhD's) serve as consultants for companies and unfortunately, they bring their advising work into the classroom.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I used the UC website to determine what they list as being potential careers for majors in Biological Sciences. Take it up with them.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And remember, you can develop interpersonal skills and any other vital career skills in any college setting, not just UCD or UCSD, but everywhere.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Absolutely I agree, but it is best to attend a university that has programs, clubs, activities and an environment where you and your interests can thrive. The lesson is do your homework in deciding where you want to attend. Rankings (especially when they are close) are only a very small fraction of the total picture.</p>

87

<p>
[quote]
Students don't approach employers/grad schools based solely on the perceived strength of the ranking of their school, no matter where they attend or work. This is not even a valid point.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Again, a logical fallacy and a strawman argument. I didn't say students approach employers based solely on the perceived strength of the programs they graduated from. I made absolutely no assumptions to what the students' qualifications are. I said perceived strength can only impress the layperson, but not those who know the actual rankings and strengths of programs. In simpler terms, there are many things that impress employers/grad schools, but the perceived strength of a program isn't one of them.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I completely disagree with you. This is a false assertion.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So, why do you disagree? Be specific. If you disagree because you believe the perceived strength of Davis' biology program impresses employers/grad schools, then that's naive and misinformed. The only instances where the perceived strength of programs impresses employers/grad schools happen with elite private schools, the likes of HYPSM. Princeton's biology program trails behind that of U of Wisconsin, but does that really matter to most employers/grad schools? No, Princeton's graduate/professional school placement rates are incredibly high. Does Davis have that sort of status in biology? I highly doubt it, unless you can come up with some phenomenal placement rates that are comparable to Princeton's.</p>

<p>I assure you that the vast majority of employers/grad schools know what they're doing. They know that for most cases, especially for public schools, the perceived strength isn't a direct reflection of the actual strength of a program. And in the case of Davis, they certainly don't buy into the whole "hey guyz i heard Davis is kinda good at science" sort of thing. They will know that the biology program at Davis, except the evolution/ecology subfield, is simply mediocre.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I used the UC website to determine what they list as being potential careers for majors in Biological Sciences. Take it up with them.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Where is this page? Are you sure it's not also referring to grad school programs?</p>

88

<p>This really is amazing
first : tastybeef vs. purest</p>

<p>second : tastybeef vs. collegemom</p>

<p>who's next ? i wonder</p>

89

<p>Rankings (especially when they are close) are only a very small fraction of the total picture. - collegemom16</p>

<p>????</p>

<p>Your saying it doesnt matter that someone (for example) would choose UC Riverside (no offense) over UC Berkeley for computer engineering, because rankings are only a small fraction of the picture?? I dont think so. A UC Berkeley computer engineering degree (for example) gives you SUBSTANTIALLY better ratings in a job interview than say a degree at UC Riverside (for example, no offense) for the same major.</p>

90

<p>^ She said when they are close.</p>

<p>I'm too lazy to check numbers, but I'm pretty sure Riverside isn't close to Berkeley.</p>

91

<p>Obviously, when choosing a college, geography, finances, fit and rankings all play a part in the decision. When rankings ARE CLOSE, other factors may be more important. </p>

<p>These two schools are both in USNWR top 50 but not the top 10. I would define that as close. Yes, UCSD is ranked higher, but it isn't like the OP is asking for advice between Harvard and Cal State Bakersfield.</p>

92

<p>tastybeef what you said is a whole lot of nothing. You are blowing hot air. My point is made. Grad schools and employers are going to consider a lot of factors in choosing students/employees. The ranking difference between UCD and UCSD is not going to be one of those factors when we are talking about well prepared graduates from either school's program in the Biological Sciences. </p>

<p>Give it a rest.</p>

93

<p>
[quote]
tastybeef what you said is a whole lot of nothing. You are blowing hot air.

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</p>

<p>Wow, irony. You're the one who copy and pastes random large blocks of texts from websites as brochure material. That is a whole lot of nothing that nobody reads.</p>

<p>And what's even more ironic and downright ridiculous is where you got that potential career paragraph from in post 87.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Options include working as a Research Scientist or a Laboratory Technician – for universities; hospitals and health boards; pharmaceutical companies; biotechnology firms; health product manufacturers; government; research institutes; environmental organisations; the utilities and the like. Equally, a graduate may be interested in options in medical sales; clinical trials; science teaching production management; scientific or environmental consultancy or advisory work. Not forgetting environmental health officer; biological or physical scientist or bacteriologist.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You said this was from a UC website, well, that's true. But you conveniently excluded that fact that this is actually from the University of Canterbury (UC) in New Zealand and not the University of California.</p>

<p>What</a> can I do with a Degree in Biological Sciences? - UC Careers & Employment - University of Canterbury - New Zealand</p>

<p>I don't know or care where your kids plan on going after college, but most of us don't plan on going to New Zealand with a Bachelor's degree. The job markets in the U.S. for bio graduates are different from those in New Zealand. You sure as hell can't land a Research Scientist or consultant job with just a bachelor's degree in the U.S. It's pitiful that you copy and paste complete chunks of text onto boards even though they aren't relevant. It's even worse when you can't take a second to check to see that your source isn't from the U.S. and hence not relevant for 99.9999% of us who don't plan on pursuing a job in New Zealand. I mean, does anyone see posters associated with other UC's posting misleading information like this? I sure don't. I've only seen this with posters from Davis.</p>

<p>Now, who's blowing hot air and saying a whole lot of nothing?</p>

<p>
[quote]
My point is made. Grad schools and employers are going to consider a lot of factors in choosing students/employees.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I've never disagreed with you about this point. In fact, I said I agree with you. Yes, grad schools are going to consider a lot of factors in choosing students and employees. However, my point is also made. Employers/grad schools are not going to be impressed by this perceived strength of the Davis' biology program. It might impress the layperson, but it's not going to impress anyone who are in the field. So, don't think you can impress important people in your field with what you impress your friends with.</p>

94

<p>Yeah when did University of Canterbury come into play... sounds like hot air to me.</p>

<p>HS2009: Was never against Tastybeef. I was actually against another one of Dmission's outrageous claims about Davis what wasn't true. </p>

<p>I agree with Tastybeef. Seriously out of all the UC's I see Davis posters posting the most outrageous claims about their school that most people OUTSIDE of Davis end up disagreeing with. There was even one of the most controversial threads called "Is Davis Prestigious??" one time which turned into chaos.</p>

95

<p>I left something out, 75 percent of UCD graduates in Biological Sciences pursue a postgraduate degree or credential after completing their undergraduate degree.</p>

<p>Here is a PDF of Facts & Distinctions for the "mediocre" UC Davis College of Biological Sciences:
<a href="http://biosci.ucdavis.edu/about/CBS_Facts.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://biosci.ucdavis.edu/about/CBS_Facts.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Annual spending:
State funds . $36 million
Other (primarily research) . $52 million
Total . $88 million
Faculty . 130
5 Academic Departments and Total Faculty
Evolution and Ecology . 25
Microbiology . 16
Molecular and Cellular Biology . 35
Neurobiology, Physiology, and Behavior . 38
Plant Biology . 16
Alumni . 28,434
Undergraduate Students . 5,246 in 10 majors
Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
Biological Sciences
Cell Biology
Evolution, Ecology, and Biodiversity
Exercise Biology
Genetics
Microbiology
Neurobiology, Physiology, and Behavior
Plant Biology
Undeclared Life Sciences
Graduate Students . 500
Total space: About 350,000 assignable square feet of classroom, research and office space.
Centers and Programs:
Bodega Marine Laboratory
Center for Neuroscience
Center for Population Biology
UC Davis Biotechnology Program
UC Davis Controlled Environmental Facility
UC Davis Botanical Conservatory
UC Davis Genome Center
UC Davis Center for Plant Diversity
Excellence in Research:
National Academy of Sciences Members
6 current . 13 lifetime
American Academy of Arts and Sciences Members
4 current . 5 lifetime
French Academy Member
1 current . 1 lifetime
American Association for the Advancement of Science Fellows
26 current . 36 lifetime
California Academy of Sciences Fellows
4 current . 5 lifetime
UC Davis Chancellor’s Fellows
6 current . 10 lifetime
Royal Society Fellows
1 current . 1 lifetime
Excellence in Teaching:
UC Davis Prize for Undergraduate Teaching and Scholarly Achievement
2 current . 3 lifetime
UC Davis Academic Senate Distinguished Teaching Award
9 current . 16 lifetime
UC Davis Academic Senate Faculty Research Lecturer Award
2 current . 4 lifetime
Chancellor's Award for Excellence in Mentoring Undergraduate Research
5 current . 5 lifetime
UC Presidential Award for Excellence in Fostering Undergraduate Research
1 current . 1 lifetime
Endowed Chairs and Professors
Novozymes Biotech, Inc. Endowed Chair in Genomics
Richard Michelmore (MCB)
Endowed Chair in Physiology
John C Wingfield (NPB)
Paul & Ruth R. Stumpf Professor in Plant Biochemistry
Judy Callis (MCB)</p>

<p>and a link for the UCSD Division of Biological Sciences:
Division</a> Factsheet - Division of Biological Sciences, UC San Diego</p>

<p>$30.6 Million in Research Expenditures Annually
88 Faculty / 43 Adjunct Faculty in 4 Academic Sections (Departments)
Cell & Developmental Biology (CDB)
Ecology, Behavior, and Evolution (EBE)
Molecular Biology (MB)
Neurobiology (NB)
21,000+ Biology Alumni
5,500 Undergraduate Students in 8 Biology Majors
Bioinformatics
Biochemistry & Cell Biology
Ecology Behavior & Evolution
General Biology
Human Biology
Microbiology
Molecular Biology
Physiology & Neurosciences
170 Postdoctoral Fellows
198 Ph.D. Graduate Students
80 Masters and Non-Degree Students
88 Research Laboratories
179,921 square feet - Research Space
27,779 square feet - Teaching Labs
2 Organized Research Units:
Kavli Institute for Brain and Mind
San Diego Consortium for Molecular Agriculture
19 Members, National Academy of Sciences
15 Members, American Academy of Arts & Sciences
21 Fellows, American Association for the Advancement of Science
10 Endowed Chairs and Professorships
10 HHMI Investigators</p>

96

<p>Good lord guys both have excellent bio programs.</p>

<p>I am willing to bet the OP is just sick of your arguments</p>

97

<p>Hi, I've been around on these boards for the past few years and I pass along the information I find on here to my son who is now a 2nd year at Davis.</p>

<p>Collegemom16,</p>

<p>I am interested in what you have to say in response to other posters' claims. For one, did you really copy-and-paste that from the University of Canterbury in New Zealand and try to pass it off as a UC here in California?</p>

<p>From what I see on University of Canterbury's website and your posts, this seems to be the case. It does not look like you were mistaken since the banner at the top of the page flagrantly tells any reader it is not a University of California. I am extremely disappointed that a parent associated with UC Davis passes on deceptive information like this on the boards. To put this in perspective, you have 2160 posts, who knows how many of them contained deceptive information like this just to support your previous statements? You have compromised your position as a reliable parent on the boards and you have lost all credibility with me.</p>

98

<p>holy crap.. this is not a discussion between UCB and UC Riverside. just choose the one you like with the better environment. Your future salary, future reputation, degree prestige will not be effected with either choice.. guaranteed. They're close enough in rank anyway. simple.</p>

99

<p>madden 2009 : what are you talking about???</p>

100

<p>Small Liberal Arts College (Whitman or Kenyon) or stay instate and go to Davis. Major: History.</p>