<p>It's been my experience that friendly rivalry aside, there is a mutual respect between fans and alumni of both schools.</p>
<p>"It's been my experience that friendly rivalry aside, there is a mutual respect between fans and alumni of both schools."</p>
<p>This is true, and luckily relations have improved to such a level that they actually work together to advance both institutions. Evidently some Seminole & Gators still haven't got the message.</p>
<p>I think most "normal" Florida students with friends at both schools enjoy visiting with each other back and forth on weekends -and the rivalry though a little intense at times is friendly. Though, I'm a Gator -if UF weren't on top with sports the only other school I would want to be on top would be FSU. I just always pull for those Florida schools over any others.</p>
<p>UF & FSU hate follows: the Divde and Conquer Strategy</p>
<p>Check out the link:</p>
<p>Divide</a> and rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>
<p>"but the average UF grad will generally do better than the average FSU grad."</p>
<p>Correlation is not causation. The average UF grad will do better if only because they know what they want, which is the reason they got into UF, not because they have a degree from UF instead of FSU.</p>
<p>I don't think UF grads do better than FSU grads 10 years after graduation.</p>
<p>I don't think it matters much at all. It depends mostly on the mettle and merit of the individual.</p>
<p>"I don't think it matters much at all. It depends mostly on the mettle and merit of the individual."</p>
<p>Completely true. And it is true if we are comparing MIT versus Miss State, too. A point often lost on the elitests on these boards...who like to believe all students...at all univesities...somehow "become" the collective average of the SAT scores of the freshman class.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
A point often lost on the elitests on these boards...who like to believe all students...at all univesities...somehow "become" the collective average of the SAT scores of the freshman class.
[/QUOTE]
Indeed. You describe the associative phenomenon - an attitude quite often demonstrated by the likes of those who are unable to stand upon the strengths of individual merit.</p>
<p>Another point often lost (on undergrads, primarily) is that a large postdoctoral research institution is not effectively "one" school, but rather several schools operating under a wider administrative umbrella (though the typical American university is somewhat more cohesive than, say, Oxford). Faculty (and student) quality vary widely from one department to the next; almost no school can be consistently excellent in all areas and must specialize out of necessity (limited resources). I'd happily wager that a student studying Theoretical Physics at a school like FSU is possessed of a superior intellect and work ethic to a student working in interdisciplinary studies at UF (owing at least in part to the nature of those subjects). It's certainly a bit inane to assess the "quality" of such schools on a singular basis, though that doesn't stop various publications and hierarchy-obsessed students and parents from attempting to do so.</p>
<p>From what I have gathered (I have no personal association with either of these schools), the state legislature of Florida specifically intended for UF and FSU to hold different specialties - FSU was designed around academic and liberal arts disciplines such as English, music, psychology, film and some physical sciences, while UF was intended to carry emphases in vocational subjects such as engineering, medicine, architecture/construction, journalism and agriculture (naturally, the extensive growth of the SUS has resulted in some overlap). In fact, it appears that FSU completely lacks programs in architecture, journalism and agriculture, while the engineering school is a mediocre joint venture with another local university and the College of Medicine is in its relative infancy. Given the vocational emphasis that has been placed on higher education today, it is not difficult to see why UF is considered to be the more prestigious school within the state - though it would seem that FSU's core academic/liberal arts programs are at least equal to the UF counterparts and in some cases, superior. This being so, a student eventually seeking admission to graduate or professional school (where academic specialties are widely favored over the vocational - engineering aside) would be at equal advantage coming from either university.</p>
<p>Moreover, I find it amusing that an undergraduate at a research institution would champion the quality of his/her education over that of another - research schools typically care very little for their undergraduates (outside of the prestige that it affords them in the USNWR rankings), who do not contribute to the school's ultimate goals and can be replaced at a whim. I seem to recall enormously impersonal lecture halls staffed by armies of graduate assistants from my own days as an undergraduate. Perhaps it is now commonplace to attribute the quality of one's education to the name stamped upon the side of the video equipment through which you watch taped lectures? I suppose that ought not to be surprising in one of the country's fastest growing service industries, where branding trumps substance. It's actually more cost effective to improve university prestige by fielding winning athletic teams than to improve the product in the classroom.</p>
<p>^^^^^Good post! You covered many interesting points.</p>
<p>You're right for the most part, except it's not just state-dictated initiatives that determine whether a school is prestigious or not. It's endowments and alumni networking more than anything. The more money you have, the more faculty, facilities and research you can buy/attract. And the more alumni you have, the better-connected and well-placed your graduates will be.</p>
<p>I don't have a vested interest in either school since my kids have made it very clear they want nothing to do with ANY FL school except as being financial safeties. </p>
<p>It's true, however, that most students in our area view UF a superior school. Yet, I'm not convinced there's any merit to that perspective other than the fact that those kind of perceptions, being far reaching, do draw more students in the top of their class, and have enabled UF to become more selective over the years. UF was also "buying" National Merit Finalists like crazy until last year. </p>
<p>In terms of actual academic opportunities, resources, professors, learning environment, etc., however, no one, not even the posters above, has ever been able to convince me that UF is actually superior -- just more popular or more highly regarded in a general sense. </p>
<p>The people I've encountered from both institutions have been equally proud and committed to their alma maters, similarly successful, and intelligent. I've met no one from FSU with any type of inferiority complex about their school. The Gators, OTOH, probably due to recent sports history, do come off a bit more arrogant. </p>
<p>Then there are the others out there who still can't figure out which is most obnoxious: the Gator Chomp, or the Tomahawk Chop, Lol.</p>
<p>FLVDAD- Bet your glad you didn't have the stress of worrying over the UF acceptance with your kids. I looked at many out of state schools and loved lots of them. I think my parents are happy with the education I will get at UF and then they can help me financially with grad school - maybe GA Tech, Rice, etc.
I am very concerned about all I'm hearing about the arrogance of the UF students. I do not want to be at a college where everyone thinks they are superior and smarter than everyone else. I'm looking forward to college and have wanted to go to UF for years and have several friends already there. I heard a few years ago about a UCF - UF football game where UF students were chanting something about UCF students being UF wanna-be's.
And also, UF hasn't been after National Merit Scholars like the other state schools have been for years. They don't need to go after them, that's also why practically every other state school in Florida have already offered UF accepted students scholarships. UF knows they don't have to give money to get them.</p>
<p>The only arrogance I have sensed here is with the football and basketball teams. But our fans have been humbled by this year's football and basketball records. </p>
<p>If anything I sense an inferiority complex from students from other instate schools. Whenever I tell someone from another instate school that I go to UF, their reaction is usually something along the lines of "Oh man you must be really smart!"</p>
<p>Interesting post, devil's advocate. You appear to have grasped the essentials of the difference and of the state of higher ed in Florida.</p>
<p>At a recent trustee meeting FSU's provost recently proposed discounting SAT scores even more than they do now, in favor of access to those from families where no one has attended college. I have personally asked why FSU does not do more to compete with UF in terms of FTIC stats and was told admitting a large number of white females from wealthy families was not helpful to society as a whole.</p>
<p>I'm probably going to get shot for saying this but...
FSU is full of all the dumbasses who got rejected from UF.
Go to UF.</p>
<p>No it does not contradict my conclusion "lavitabassa".
I said it was "full of". I did not say "Every single person who goes to FSU is a dumbass who got rejected from UF". I was implying that there are a large number of students at FSU who are there because they were not accepted at UF. Don't try and take what I say out of context.
If that still confuses you, let me use a very elementary example..
Person 1 (me): "This salad is full of olives."
Person 2 (you): "No, actually there is a red pepper in it. Therefore, your conclusion is wrong!".
Now does that seem to be a logical criticism person 2 is making?...</p>
<p>"And also, UF hasn't been after National Merit Scholars like the other state schools have been for years. They don't need to go after them, that's also why practically every other state school in Florida have already offered UF accepted students scholarships. UF knows they don't have to give money to get them."</p>
<p>??? Until the current school year, UF offered an exorbitant scholarship to NMFs, which is why, at one point, the university had the #2 most NMFs in the country (behind only Harvard). They were giving NMFs $5500/year, as well as a $2000 stipend for summer research. Since many Florida students qualify for Bright Futures, which covers tuition costs, why wouldn't they jump at the chance to get even more money simply by being a NMF? For this school year, they reduced the money to $1000/year. </p>
<p>UF wasn't "after" NMFs like "all the other Florida schools"? I think not!</p>
<p>UF was paying that kind of money to national merit scholars ten years ago. I don't think in the past few years they've gone after all the merit scholars they could get to be second to Harvard. The good students are choosing to go there. Probably the reason they dramatically decreased the amount they were paying merit scholars was because they had so many attending.....My point was, other state schools are offering all kinds of scholarship money to good students to get them to come to their college.....UF doesn't have to do this. Just like the amount of literature UF sends to prospective students....other colleges bombard you with recruiting info.....UF's is very minimal if at all.</p>
<p>Yeah UF decided the National Merit scholars weren't worth all that money. Now they can allocate the money towards hiring more faculty.</p>