<p>Background: Our son is in grade 9 at a private HS. He could be attending the local (highly rated) public high school, but we felt a smaller, more intimate classroom setting would be better for him, hence the placement in private school. He's bright (reading at grade 12 level at end of grade 7) but does not apply himself. Currently, he has D's in Eng and Bio for first semester, and he understands he will need to retake them either in summer school or in grade 10. (He now has an F going in Bio for Q3.) Since last spring, we've had him evaluated for ADHD by 2 separate clinicians (he doesn't have it), taken him to 3 separate counselors/therapists (no improvement), and even placed him on meds (not sure he needs them). We've also tried encouragement, reward ($$), nagging, punishment, tutors. No effect. We are very worried that his work ethic (or lack thereof) will eliminate all 4-yr college possibilities when it comes time for him to apply. Question: What should we be doing that we haven't done? If we let him manage his own time and workload (we've tried this at his suggestion), he will not get his homework/studying done. How can we impress upon him the importance of HS for his future, ie, that doing well will create more options for college and beyond? He just doesn't seem to care. He obviously needs to mature, but there's no magic bullet or timetable for that, unfortunately. Thanks in advance for your advice.</p>
<p>Looks like you've done all you can do and looked under every rock. Now the ball is in his court.</p>
<p>Your S sounds like my neighbor's S. He didn't catch fire till he joined the Air Force a couple of years after high school. With the disciplined schedule and a feeling of being part of something bigger than himself, he thrived. </p>
<p>Boys seem to just take more time to mature sometimes. If he has to start at a 2 year school, then that's what he'll have to do. If it makes you feel better, my father was a high school dropout. He later went on to get a PhD. On his own timetable...</p>
<p>Dear Jeremys mom, </p>
<p>It wont eliminate all 4 years, especially if you can pay. It will eliminate many, and may increase cost. However, he can always go to CC or third tier schooll for two years and transfer. Ask him is that what he wants. Does he want to live at home for 2 years.</p>
<p>Have you analyzed this, including consulting with the teachers, to determine exactly where he's falling down? For example, is it the 'doesn't turn in HW' syndrome? Or does he handle the HW okay but fall apart on tests? Is he disruptive/disrespectful in class which puts him on the bad side of the teacher? </p>
<p>If he doesn't do his HW, why doesn't he do it? Is he simply spending time he should spend on HW on other activities like the typical 'boy playing video games endlessly' or watching too much TV? If so, it's pretty easy to remove those distractions. Or does he not do the HW because he's too disorganized to know what HW to do? If so, you can work on his organization skills and maybe enlist the help of the teachers to inform you as to what the HW is as well. Or is it that he simply doesn't know how to do the HW - how to get started writing a paper, doing the math problems, etc.?</p>
<p>Might there be some other problem related to that school - conflicts with other students? This can sometimes happen in settings with a very small number of students. Would he be better off at a larger public HS where there might be many more options for friends and social circles? </p>
<p>It's hard for a 7th grade boy to look too far in the future sometimes but have you had calm, informational type discussions about possible careers or results from those careers (travel, money, cool cars) and what it takes to get there and how especially starting around now he'll have to apply himself to distinguish himself from the crowd and especially the slackers so he can have a chance to get to the point of the cool cars, etc.?</p>
<p>I think the starting point is to focus on what the actual problem really is.</p>
<p>Has he been evaluated for other learning disabilities?</p>
<p>Sounds very familiar - who said boys are easier than girls?! I haven't had to remind my Sr D to do homework since the 2nd grade, while her 10th grade brother would do nothing if left to his own devices. It gets to me because, while she has a 4.0 and studies hard, his teachers have often told me that they regard him as one of the brightest kids but he just won't apply himself. He has a great personality and is very athletic but that's only going to get him so far. He doesn't want to go to college (unless it's to play sports), and will probably do a trade school thing combined with a CC, which is fine with me as long as he'll be happy with his choice.</p>
<p>I set the "bar" at an 85 average each marking period because I know it's fully within his capabilities. If he doesn't meet it, there are non-negotiable consequences. His last report card tallied up to an 82 average (with only 1 honors course) because he didn't turn in all his Bio labs so he has his driving privileges suspended until they go back up. He wants to get his license and a job badly but knows that won't happen unless he gets his priorities straight. </p>
<p>Last year I had him do extra hard chores on the theory that, if he wasn't going to study, he might as well make use of his time. He also had to sit and do algebra review with me for an hour a day for a month before state exams - he passed everything and avoided summer school that way. This year we'll likely do that again, even though I do finally see some improvement in his motivation/attitude about schoolwork this year. I think it may be from observing all his sis is doing to get into her choice colleges, careers, scholarships, etc. Or maybe he's just growing up a little. At this point I just offer help, try not to nag, and make sure he understands fully what the expectations and consequences are. He knows I'm making a big deal about grades so that he doesn't completely shut the door on important options like college later on. He also understands that I will only support him financially as long as he's in school. Once he's an adult and working, he's going to have to be self supporting! (I'm sure I'd still help if needed, but he doesn't have to know that right now!)</p>
<p>I'd read the books by Mel Levine, and depending on your budget, have him evaluated by Levine or someone he recommends. The bottom line in Levine's books is that no child wants to be lazy or an underachiever. There's usually an underlying learning issue.</p>
<p>If a high school kid doesn't want to do work, they won't do work. It doesn't matter what you do.</p>
<p>I know it's hard to hear but maybe everyone needs to relax a little. Stressing about grades doesn't help you, your DS, <em>or</em> the grades. I've been through this to some extent with all of my kids (all boys!). Some of the best advice I've gotten over the years relates to "kids have to succeed for themselves, not for you, their teachers, or anyone else", that "love the kid on the couch, not the one you wish you had" thing, and "there are many paths to success".</p>
<p>Boys <em>do</em> often come to it later in life. Your DS might need to repeat a year, do a PG year, take time off after hs, . . . ? I've been where you are--seeing some bad 9th (10th/11th/12th!) grade report cards and thinking they're never going to go to college anywhere, but so far it's working out okay for my kids. You want them to be happy about going to school and aware that they are responsible for their own mistakes. I don't subscribe to the reward/punishment for grades. (Neither did my parents, and my sibs and I are all doing great.) In the long run, kids do want to succeed and to make you proud of them. But making it a big battle ground doesn't work any better for high school grades than it did trying to get them to eat their peas.</p>
<p>JeremysMom - I laud you for all your efforts, and for continuing your efforts on behalf of your S. For your own peace of mind you might try a few of the suggestions posted above, but in my experience tajamariee is on point: If a HS kid doesn't want to do the work, he won't. My best friend tried public school, catholic school, military school, and academic private school for his S. Nothing worked. A 2.0 GPA was required to move on to the next grade and that's EXACTLY the GPA he got each and every year. The young man is 22 now and is starting to show signs of progress, so all is not lost --- just massively delayed. Good luck.</p>
<p>Is this a sudden (this year) precipitous dropoff in performance or is this a long running underachievement pattern?</p>
<p>I ask because it does make a difference in how you approach the situation. </p>
<p>For purposes of this post, I'll take it that it is sudden.</p>
<p>Ultimately if he is to turn it around, he needs to be able to explain why he is behaving differently. This is where you have to start asking him to explain his behavior. You will get the usual teenage grunts and Idunno's. You will have to break it down into smaller chunks (time intervals) like, "when you went into class, what were you doing when everyone else was turning in their homework?" if homework is the issue. You have to engage him in thinking about how his behavior is now deviating from the norm (I am assuming here that his private HS is not a reform school).</p>
<p>Most young kids (key word here is most), want to be like their peers. Now the things that make kids deviate from that are anger (misplaced reaction), depression, or perhaps he really doesn't identify with his peers (a likely situation). You mentioned this private school. Is it new this year or has there been a turnover in students recently? If he is not buying into the place or his peers, his performance is in line with that. Maybe a shift to that good pulbic may be better in his case.</p>
<p>Or perhaps he has another difference. I have an Asperger's autistic (high functioning) who had plenty of capability to perform, yet hasn't made it through any school situation where someone didn't hand hold him (or hold him to the fire). He didn't identify correctly with his peers (part and parcel with Aspergers) and his agenda (whatever he was fixated on at the time) was his agenda.</p>
<p>Not suggesting that yours may be of that situation, but just to make the point that performance differences are as different as the kids and situations they are in.</p>
<p>What you need to find out is what makes him tick (motivates him intrinsically) and put him in a situation where this takes over.</p>
<p>There is a book called Tough Love. I haven't read it, but it might help.</p>
<p>Take away privileges. Don't pay for anything other than basic food, clothing, shelter. If he wants anything, he has to earn them by doing his best in school. Don't micro manage (don't make him study algebra for 1 hour, etc.). His grades will be how he earns privileges, and it is up to him to figure out how to achieve that.</p>
<p>You mentioned that you let him control his time and management at his suggestion; at that it didn't work. You also say that he's a 9th grader and just starting this private high school. I may have overlooked it in your post, but I don't remember reading anything about what he wants. Don't get me wrong; I'm a firm believer that I'm the parent and he's the child. But, is the private school you put him into one that a LOT of the kids from his 7th-8th grade classes go? Or do all of them go to the public school? Did you ask him if he WANTED to go to this private school, or did you just assume it's the best and he'll adjust? There's a lot of kids who won't argue or fight back when then are given things they don't like. Sometimes it's out of respect; sometimes fear of retribution; sometimes it's just their disposition. Puberty and teenage years can really suck. Even for boys. Most parents have gone through this before. The only thing I can suggest based upon my own experiences and failures is to ask your son what he REALLY wants. Don't ask him if it's ok that he's going to this high school. Ask him if this high school is what he WANTS. Find out what he wants for the future. Help him decide what he needs to fulfill those dreams. Find out what he wants. The thing is; no matter WHAT HE WANTS when he graduates, there's 2 truths that will always stand. 1) You can always fit it doing well in school into him achieving his goals. 2) DON'T criticize ANY of his goals; because they WILL CHANGE. Probably at least 4-5 more times in the next 4 years. So even if he says he wants to manage a mini-mart or become a rock star; be EXCITED about it and then help him figure out how doing well in school can help him achieve those goals. But first find out if being in that private school is part of the problem. And I'm glad you got all the medical issues out of the way. Most of the time children are mis-diagnosed as an excuse for their behavior. There's a lot less kids with ADD/ADHD and other conditions than have been diagnosed. Anyway; find out what the boy wants.</p>
<p>One of my kids was just like this. I hate to post the high school gpa after 3 semesters but let's just say that it <em>doubled</em> and still wasn't a 4.0. Anyway, the same kid did a remarkable turn around when we did a few things:</p>
<p>1- got student to a counselor who specialized in adolescents having such issues
2- student joined an activity (got school credit for it) that gave the student purpose -- some ideas: civil air patrol, police cadets, fire department, volunteer with children (child development credit?)
3- had study hall added into schedule (easier to get homework done there)
4- had student labeled ADD so there was more flexibility about handing things in late (student needed this for a bit until study habits met up with motivation)*</p>
<ul>
<li>As far as the labeling, student was easily diagnosed ADD based on the checklists. I hadn't had it done because motivation was a huge issue-- and, for this child, motivation was all about being passive-aggressive and being in a power struggle with me. So while the ADD accommodation helped-- extra time and study hall-- the real issue was working on motivation both from the inside (with a counselor) and from the outside (with an activity that made the student really want to go to school each day).</li>
</ul>
<p>Jeremy's Mom---I feel your pain. I have a similar issue with our D. Kids with ADD or ADHD do sometimes hit a "wall" when the curriculum demands increase. Also, there is a fair amount of research out now about the development of the teen brain--basically teenagers have the brains of a bi-polar adult. </p>
<p>No easy answers. In our case, I am convinced that my D needs a really good community service experience, where she realizes her place in the world overall, and her need to use the gifts (talent, private school, etc.) that she has. </p>
<p>She has many compensating skills too---she's highly social. :) We have been told by virtually everyone who has evalutated her that she will be a successful adult. Living through the process until she gets there is the killer......</p>
<p>Take a look at "Driven to Distraction" or "Delivered from Distraction" by Hallowell and Ratey, and see if you recognize your son in them.</p>
<p>And don't lose heart! In law school, we used to say, "Those who get the "A's" become professors, those who get the "B's" become judges, and those who get the "Cs" make all the money.</p>
<p>ps-I agree that an evaluation with a competant professional would really help.</p>
<p>OperaDad: Don't micro manage (don't make him study algebra for 1 hour, etc.).</p>
<p>I laughed when I read that post. On the way home yesterday my son (who wanted to practice driving but isn't allowed), mentioned how much that helped him last year and asked me to go to B&N and get geometry review books for this year! I think he tends to get behind a little, ignore the problem, then he's clueless about catching up. The review books allow them to start over and go through more quickly, relearning concepts they didn't fully grasp and seeing how they apply to the next topic. I actually assigned problems, provided explanations, and sat with him. It made a big difference (but required loads of patience) and I learned that he doesn't learn that well by reading the material or listening, but by seeing and doing.</p>
<p>I agree that it can't become a battleground between you, but parents do have to set expectations according to the kid's abilities. I look on it as real life training, as the adult world is not forgiving of lack of motivation!</p>
<p>From my personal experience, it is not possible to help. Kids are so different, even in the same family. One will not do homework, no matter what, another in a quest for perfection does not know when to stop doing it and just leave it alone as is without perfectionning it further. I had them both. Sorry for not being very encouraging. One thing, the end results are OK, they learn one way or another. If he fails, he will just need to repeat it and eventually graduate later.</p>
<p>I had similar problems, but with my daughter. Mostly C's through HS, she said C meant average so that was fine with her.....
She's now a college freshman (luckily she's an athlete so she even made it there,) and wanted me to rent a Shakespeare movie for while she's home on spring break so she can do an extra credit paper!!!!!!!!!!! I almost fell over. She has finally realized that she needs to do this for herself and it is her choice to do well now. It was a long time coming, but nothing I could do or say made a difference until SHE made the choice.</p>
<p>patience and perspective are my advice. i thought S2 was seriously underachieving, i mean everyone knows he's bright and inquisitive, but his habits were less than my expectations and below his big brother's (who admits that S2 is smarter than him) performance. i now realize he's going to be fine. . .he's a solid kid and HE knows it. </p>
<p>trust what he's good at and encourage it.</p>