UPENN vs. Cornell

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
41

<p>
[quote]
My final point: although it is possible that Cornell A&S is similar in selectivity to Penn CAS, the state schools at Cornell undeniably detract from its prestige as a whole, and this absolutely jades students otherwise interested in their offerings.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Oh my God where did you get this? I thought state schools are what enhance Cornell's prestige overseas! I think we're both glad that you're not at Cornell. Everyone's happy.</p>

<p>Cayuga is correct when he says approx 50% of Penn's enrolment comes from ED. The exact percentage is 47%. Please reread what he says. </p>

<p>Penn</a> Admissions: Incoming Class Profile</p>

<p>I am applying for CALS as primary and CAS as secondary, but on the record it will probably only show CALS.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Penn has a vested interest in withholding individual admissions data: the two smaller smaller schools, Engineering and Nursing, which together have 500 students per class, would suffer horribly in admissions. It is a well-known secret that they are somewhat less selective, and to release that data could effectively destroy the gains that they have made. Seriously.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The publically funded colleges at Cornell are not as stats-focused, and yet they still release all of their data.</p>

<p>Oh and I don't really want to belittle Penn because it is a great school, but three of my friends applied for Penn just for Wharton.</p>

<p>I just wish to clarify several things.</p>

42

<p>Shifu Yoda, are you TRULY unfamiliar with Cornell's state-school dilemma?
Have you ever heard the following epithets:
"SUNY Ithaca" - this is a reference to the State University of New York
"Safety School" - this is what every Ivy that plays Cornell yells at them from the stands.</p>

<p>State schools NEVER add to the prestige. Ever. Seriously. I realize from your English and things that you've said that you're a foreigner. Let me help you get this straight:</p>

<p>In America, state schools or public schools are LESS PRESTIGIOUS than private schools.</p>

<p>Did you know this? That's why everyone says that Cornell is the stupid Ivy.</p>

<p>Also: The public schools at Cornell release their data because they are much bigger, and have less to lose, than nursing or engineering at Penn. If nursing or engineering even lost 50 applicants, it would be a huge blow.</p>

43

<p>Why would the contract colleges detract from Cornell? They're often the best in their fields and they offer interesting classes that other universities don't. Even if you aren't interested in anything they have to offer, you can just take CAS courses like I did. </p>

<p>If you have any legit complaints about Cornell, I'm sure the OP would be interested to hear. Cornell's not a perfect school. But, to bash Cornell for the 100th time because its SAT scores are 20 points lower than peer schools is just not useful. Your posts present a gross exaggeration of the difference b/w a 1410 and a 1430 student. I bet I could have you follow around two students for an entire year and you wouldn't be able to tell me which one scored 1410 and which one scored 1430. If you are choosing schools based on 20 points on the SAT and 5% difference in acceptance rates, you aren't smart enough to deserve Cornell or Penn.</p>

44

<p>You are spinning like John McCain here... </p>

<p>
[quote]
I do have a legitimate range for CAS's SAT average: in 2004, the admissions officers officially told the Daily Pennsylvanian that CAS was now only 10 points lower than Wharton. This has been published in the book, "The Running of the Bulls: From Wharton to Wall Street."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So now we're extrapolating data from the Class of 2007? Wow. We've already done our job proving that there can be no quantitative difference between Cornell CAS and Penn SAS, and yet you refuse to acknowledge this fact.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Penn accepts 35% ED, not 50% (where on earth did you get that number?)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Simple. I did the math. </p>

<p>For the Class of 2012, 3,769 applicants were accepted of which 2,622 were accepted RD. That means that 1,147 were accepted ED. Assuming Penn enrolls 2,500 students in its freshmen class, that means over 50 percent of the class was filled ED.</p>

<p>These numbers, I will admit, do not include wait list usage, which Penn relied heavily upon last year. How heavily? We don't know. Because Penn won't release its Common Data Set.</p>

<p>Admit</a> rate increases to 16.4 percent - News</p>

<p>
[quote]
Penn has a vested interest in withholding individual admissions data: the two smaller smaller schools, Engineering and Nursing, which together have 500 students per class, would suffer horribly in admissions. It is a well-known secret that they are somewhat less selective, and to release that data could effectively destroy the gains that they have made. Seriously.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Or they could just grow up and stop playing games trying to increase their reputation in the eyes of a gullible few.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Cornell definitely has better Math and hard science than Penn, but in everything else, Penn is better. The NRC ranks Penn equal to Harvard, Yale and MIT in terms of quality of research output and departmental standings; it ranks Cornell as the second cluster down.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What's your source for that? The NRC rankings are a bit old, but last I checked Cornell stands a bit higher than Penn in the best comprehensive measure of research programs.</p>

<p>United</a> States National Research Council rankings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>

45

<p>
[quote]
Shifu Yoda, are you TRULY unfamiliar with Cornell's state-school dilemma?
Have you ever heard the following epithets:
"SUNY Ithaca" - this is a reference to the State University of New York
"Safety School" - this is what every Ivy that plays Cornell yells at them from the stands.</p>

<p>State schools NEVER add to the prestige. Ever. Seriously. I realize from your English and things that you've said that you're a foreigner. Let me help you get this straight:</p>

<p>In America, state schools or public schools are LESS PRESTIGIOUS than private schools.</p>

<p>Did you know this? That's why everyone says that Cornell is the stupid Ivy.</p>

<p>Also: The public schools at Cornell release their data because they are much bigger, and have less to lose, than nursing or engineering at Penn. If nursing or engineering even lost 50 applicants, it would be a huge blow.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And now we've gone into the troll territory. </p>

<p>I'm 23 and at a top med school and in my life I have never heard "Suny Ithaca," Cornell being referred to as "less prestigous," or Cornell called the "stupid Ivy" and I attend a med school where 70% of the graduating class comes from a Top 20 US News school. You do realize this is all a CC-thing, right? No one gives a crap about your SAT scores or acceptance rates or yield rates after you get into college. I respect my classmates for what they've accomplished, not where they went to school. No one has ever said, "Dude, let's not study anatomy with Dave because he went to Colgate." The topic of where you went to college comes up...never.</p>

46

<p>
[quote]
One last thing: Cornell CAS isn't even CLOSE to 10%. It was 18% percent last year, and that was regular decision only. Early Decision probably moved up to 20% or so.

[/quote]
Oh sorry, I should have been clearer, I was talking about transfer rates. I'm a transfer so that's immediately what I think of. Anyway, thanks for the info. Like I said, I'm not a Cornell student jumping in to defend my college, I'm a prospective transfer trying to get some insight. Personally, I feel like Cornell is a good fit for me. I would be more than happy to go there. It doesn't make a difference to me whether it's acceptance rate is 3% higher than another college or that its mean SAT is however many points lower. I'm glad you found a college right for you and are so passionate and happy about it. No reason to bash your old college though. I would never bash NYU, which in terms of selectivity is far below Cornell AND Penn. It's a good college and I'm going to try to get as much out of it as I can, and in the end I'll decide if I want to stay or not.</p>

47

<p>
[quote]
Shifu Yoda, are you TRULY unfamiliar with Cornell's state-school dilemma?
Have you ever heard the following epithets:
"SUNY Ithaca" - this is a reference to the State University of New York
"Safety School" - this is what every Ivy that plays Cornell yells at them from the stands.</p>

<p>State schools NEVER add to the prestige. Ever. Seriously. I realize from your English and things that you've said that you're a foreigner. Let me help you get this straight:</p>

<p>In America, state schools or public schools are LESS PRESTIGIOUS than private schools.</p>

<p>Did you know this? That's why everyone says that Cornell is the stupid Ivy.</p>

<p>Also: The public schools at Cornell release their data because they are much bigger, and have less to lose, than nursing or engineering at Penn. If nursing or engineering even lost 50 applicants, it would be a huge blow.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You are quite frankly one of the most misinformed and misguided individuals I have ever interacted with. </p>

<p>Tens of thousands of extremely well-qualified students across the country choose to enroll at schools like Berkeley, UCLA, UIUC, Michigan, UVa, Florida, Texas, Georgia Tech, Michigan, Wisconsin, Washington, et. al. due to a whole host of reasons. To suggest that they are somewhat less prestigious or less good options for a student is absolutely ridiculous.</p>

<p>As for Cornell's "state schools", which you, for some reason, choose to deride, they provide a world class educational and research environment. They are responsible for so many very important things in this world, like the founding of early childhood education, the Green Revolution in India, or human and labor rights across the globe.</p>

<p>Sounds like you have a very large chip on your shoulder for ever being associated with Cornell. Best of luck with that.</p>

48

<p>patlees88 summed up pretty well in a post at Penn's forum.</p>

<p>
[quote]
[To muerteapablo,] unfortunately, as I suspected, you are just another prestige-obsessed sad individual who is out of touch with the reality. You launched numerous attacks on Cornell and its student body as being inferior. I would suggest, now that you have transferred, to move on to care about more deeper things, such as your studies, career goals, rather than caring about the perceived prestige. To be honest with you, neither Cornell nor Penn will give you that ultra prestige you seek, only HYPS will do. You remind me of that old Cornell poster on CC named "bball", who was also prestige-obsessed, who transferred out of Cornell to Northwestern, then again to transfer to UPenn after getting rejected from Columbia, Yale, Harvard, and Brown every year he applied. Perhaps you guys could meet up at Penn.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I love Cornell, and to me it is the best school on Earth.</p>

49

<p>
[quote]
And now we've gone into the troll territory.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think we've been in this territory for quite a while, norcalguy.</p>

<p>To anybody who may still be reading, I think the most important take away is this: There are many extremely good schools out there where you can receive your education. They differ in character and personality, so choose one that seems like a good fit to you. But all of these schools will offer similar resources and a similar high-functioning student body. The most important input is you.</p>

50

<p>Fine, it appears as though I'm about to be banned. I'll just give you guys this and leave:
<a href="http://mup.asu.edu/research2006.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://mup.asu.edu/research2006.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>That's the source for Penn's top ranked research. The NRC ranking you posted is generally not used, because it doesn't have a consistent ranking method (in other words, one that gives Harvard top berth. Dumb, I know).</p>

<p>I am a terrible person for pointing out that a lot of people deride Cornell for its state connections, but I wanted to let Shifu Yoda know. Really, no one I have ever met has thought of a school as BETTER for its being a public. I thought that was crazy.</p>

<p>I'm gone, sorry to stir up these feelings. Stargazerlilies, if you like Cornell more, by all means go there. Don't go to follow the prestige, as you said. Go because it will truly make you happier. If it does, than you should do it.</p>

51

<p>As a person who has received public education since kindergarten, I believe in the quality of public education, or private institute with public soul. Maybe the United States has different perspectives on public schools (as I have heard), but if that is the case, the U.S. should initiate a series of reforms to renovate public schools, and not deride the quality of those schools. Have you heard of the Pygmalion Effect (self-fulfilling prophecy)?</p>

52

<p>there are a lot of good public schools in the U.S Shifu. unfortunately, the performance of a school has a lot to do with the money it gets, and since taxes pay for school, if you're rich and live in a rich area, your public school will most likely be better...if you're poor in a poor area, your public school might be terrible. not that all lower class people go to sucky schools, I know here in NY there's a lot of great HS's made for high achieving kids from low income families.
on average, private schools are almost always better. there are great public colleges as well, but if you look at the top 50 colleges, most are private. it has a lot to do with money.</p>

53

<p>then aren't we glad Cornell is a private university, and only makes even MORE money due to the fact that some of our colleges are state funded :)</p>

54

<p>
[quote]
<a href="http://mup.asu.edu/research2006.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://mup.asu.edu/research2006.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>That's the source for Penn's top ranked research. The NRC ranking you posted is generally not used, because it doesn't have a consistent ranking method (in other words, one that gives Harvard top berth. Dumb, I know).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is quite funny. I've been studying issues in higher education for the greater part of this decade, and nobody I know across higher ed uses this ranking. It's methodology is completely without merit and fails to take into account a whole host of external factors when assessing a school's research productivity. </p>

<p>Last time I checked the number of doctorates granted or the number of postgrad positions awarded has no bearing on the research quality of the institution.</p>

<p>Please don't quote these as the NRC rankings. Because they aren't.</p>

<p>And just because the NRC rankings don't have Harvard first does not mean that they are illegitimate rankings. To the contrary, these are the rankings that universities look at first when they try to assess the caliber of the their individual departments.</p>

<p>NRC</a> Rankings</p>

55

<p>
[quote]
and only makes even MORE money due to the fact that some of our colleges are state funded

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Indeed, if you count New York State's support of Cornell as if it was acting as an endowment, it is the equivalent of around $3.5 billion in endowment</p>

56

<p>My opinion is that both Penn & Cornell are highly prestigious schools with worldwide recognition. Several interesting points have been raised in this thread and I am interested in learning more about admissions rates for each university. Does Cornell University include those given guaranteed transfer options (GTOs) in its acceptance rate? And does Penn include nursing & engineering students in its reported (to USNews) acceptance rate?
My overly simplified characterization of the two universities is that Cornell is the rural version of Penn, and Penn is the urban version of Cornell (with Northwestern University being the suburban version of both). And to continue with my simplified view, if you have been admitted to either Penn or Cornell, you are highly intelligent & very hardworking and ambitious.</p>

57

<p>^That's a great answer. I agree with you 100%</p>

58

<p>
[quote]
Does Cornell University include those given guaranteed transfer options (GTOs) in its acceptance rate?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No. They are included in the transfer pool because they need to reapply.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And does Penn include nursing & engineering students in its reported (to USNews) acceptance rate?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes. But they do not provide any breakouts.</p>

<p>
[quote]
My overly simplified characterization of the two universities is that Cornell is the rural version of Penn, and Penn is the urban version of Cornell (with Northwestern University being the suburban version of both).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I completely agree with this statement.</p>

59

<p>What? In what way is Penn remotely similar to Cornell? Because it has a weird undergraduate program (nursing)? That's 90 kids per year out of 2400. I don't see the schools as at all related, accept for the non-sectarianism.</p>

60

<p>
[quote]
accept for the non-sectarianism.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, that would be a start. Cornell, Penn, and Northwestern are also well-known for having diverse, decentralized academics spread out among numerous undergraduate colleges, featuring large, diverse undergraduate bodies.</p>

<p>Cornell and Penn also feature the two strongest sports followings in the Ivy League: Cornell with hockey, and Penn with basketball. At many other Ivies, you would be hard pressed to find such a sporting tradition. Northwestern obviously has a pretty strong athletic tradition in the big 10.</p>

<p>The schools are also acknowledged as historically being more middle class, bourgeoisie, or nouveau-rich relative to a lot of their other peer schools, which manifests itself in various ways -- a higher percentage of students interested in Greek life, for one. They also have historically admitted Jewish students in much higher numbers than most of their other peers.</p>

<p>So in the end, one is a state school disguised as a private university. The other is a private university often confused for a state school. And the third is in a conference with a bunch of state schools.</p>

<p>You still have yet to take back any of your untrue and misleading facts and remarks about Penn and Cornell. We have disproved all of them. I await your apology.</p>