Are North Africans considered URM’s?
I’ve looked at the enrollment distribution pie charts at many schools, and they all feature Indian Subcontinent, Asian, etc… but not North African or Middle Eastern (although the two aren’t synonymous). Are North Africans thus considered “other” or are they considered “African” (which they are…)? What about Middle Easterners?
<p>classified as "white/Caucasian", and that "African" meant, basically, "black/brown-skinned". </p>
<p>In fact, I thought it was "scientifically" considered that people from the Indian subcontinent are considered "Caucasian" too-- although they often aren't specified as such.</p>
<p>The thing is, what if you don't identify with the culture of the White imperialist oppressor [/sarcasm]</p>
<p>I've seen forms/applications that read, "Caucasian (includes North African and Middle Eastern)". I'd recommend e-mailing your prospective colleges, though, to ask them if North African is considered African-American. There was one college someone on here wrote to and he was told to mark African American. While the admissions officer was more than likely wrong, that guy had proof that he had a right to mark it down in case he got in trouble.</p>
<p>the thing is, there's no way you can "get in trouble"... the question itself is very subjective on some applications I've seen: "which ethnicity do you most identify with." not only that, but North Africa is (surprise!) in Africa--so they really can't question you on that level. finally, it's probably illegal to challenge you on the basis of race, given that they can't really accuse you of lying in such a situation.</p>
<p>I find it disgusting that people in North Africa could consider themselves "African-American/Black" in the sense of the term used by colleges to promote diversity among students on their campuses. The applicant MUST adhere to both qualifications in order to claim themselves a member of this group; therefore they must be both "African-American" as well as "Black." The claims to North African countries being "in africa" and therefore the all-encompassing resolve that people from those countries are "African-American" is outlandish. This is just as justifiable as if Teresa Heinz Kerry were to apply to college as an "African-American" or if I, an American-born citizen, were to classify myself as a "Native American." Your claims are outlandish and wrong and all you are doing is stealing opportunities for minority advancements in society as a whole. You are not black, nor do you associate with blacks, but rather you attempt to simply engage in "college admissions arbitrage" through exploiting a weakness in the system. Blackness itself is in the skin color, not in the heritage or culture. If you question this statement read up on the New York Times segment that ran about a month ago focusing on the polarization of society and how those who are light-skinned have a much easier time blending into society than those who are dark skinned or black.</p>
<p>Don't cheat the system for all you are doing is cheating yourselves.</p>
<p>But what if it just says "African-American" and not "/Black" with it? Then there is technically nothing wrong with a Northern Africa selecting that category.</p>
<p>affieboy79. you hit it right on! Kids who do this are blowing over everyone on the app. pool (white or black).</p>
<p>On all applications the heading is "African American/ Black". There are some people who choose to interpret this loosely. I think that this is a real shame and takes away from all applicants to a pool. Although you say yourself that you don't identify with whites, I feel as if you were referring more to westerners. If, however, you do see yourself as Black, than by all means mark it, however I know many North Africans don't consider themselves African.
The bottom line though is that you are caucasian. Although you have African roots, the question in the application is asking for your skin color, not where you were born. Like affieboy said, thats akin someone calling themselves a native american - technically true, but obviously breaking the rules. You have good chances anyway, don't try to cheat a system.</p>
<p>One of the above posts may have implied that you can say you are an URM and they can't challenge it. There is still a rule against lying on the application. There aren't going to check birth certificates, but you need to have some basis for marking URM in case it comes up later.</p>
<p>Colleges have honor codes, and the best colleges take the honor code very seriously. You can not only have your admission revoked for lying, but you could go all the way thru four years to graduation, and then not graduate because you lied on the form.</p>
<p>After checking off the African American box, could you with a clear conscience do the following:</p>
<p>Assimilate with being an black african american?</p>
<p>would you feel comfortable getting mail and invitations for affinity housing, the black caucus, the black praxis? </p>
<p>would you step up to host an african american student from the inner city for the variety of multicultural recruiting events that take place on the campus? </p>
<p>would you stand up to this prospective student and tell your story about how being a black man or a black woman has shaped your perspective of the world and of "X" College explaining weather or not that school does a good job of embracing and supporting you as a student of color?</p>
<p>what happens when your school records, EC's, rec or even the telling of your own story ends up not jiving with the lie that you told?</p>
<p>Remember that character is who you are when no one is watching.</p>
<p>I interpret 'African-American/Black' as someone with roots from sub-Saharan Africa, 'negroid' people (I am aware that negroid people exist in Brazil. Some Brazilian indigenous people are negroids). The original people of North Africa were Caucasian. While that might not be the case today (many North Africans are mixed race people), they still are two distinct regions.</p>
<p>According to the California Dept. of Education...</p>
<p>African American (not Hispanic):
A non-Hispanic person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa.</p>
<p>White (not Hispanic):
A non-Hispanic person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, North Africa, or the Middle East, e.g. England, Portugal, Egypt, and Iran.</p>
<p>Wow that is weird? Middle Easterners and North Africans are considered white? Well affieboy is really messed up here. "Don't cheat the REAL minorities". That is just stupid. "You don't identify with the black culture". What so can a white guy from the hood say he is black? Is a black guy in a white neighborhood who doesn't watch enough BET required to say he is white? That is a crapload of racism right there! You know what, AA is one of the dumbest things ever invented, so you know what I say to the OP? Play it for all it's worth. You are from Africa, no questions. So are you an African American? Of course you are! Do you qualify as black? I don't know, but then again Black leaders don't ever claim people like Colin Powell who 'aren't black enough' even though they are obviously of African descent. None of this discussion should even be taking place. Why should a "true" African American who is rich and lives in a white area get in in front of this North African? No one has a good answer. AA is trash. Get it through your head. I applaud the OP for exposing one of the many, many flaws, and I hope he writes African-American/Black, if only in the spirit of using and abusing the system that screws over so many others.</p>
<p>^actual, i think the DUMBEST thing ever invent was lynching and segregation but i guess maybe I believe that because that might be more abusive to my race. You probably think AA is the dumbest thing ever because this is the worst thing that has EVER happend to white americans directly(sarcasm). Agree. let's move to ECONOMIC AA.</p>
<p>Yeah, you know, lynchings and segregation were stupid and bad, worse than AA etc., I know, it's not like I'm a racist. I should have said AA was the dumbest thing ever invented to fix racial problems, or that it was the dumbest thing invented since the KKK or something like that. But you know what? Some very intelligent and compassionate people stepped in to stop the segregation, overcoming many obstacles to get things like the Civil Rights Act passed. Do you know what else resulted from the Civil Rights movement? AA. And now it is AA, not segregation or outright racism that stands in the way of equality. And I think we must all agree that "such and such was worse than that" isn't a good argument for either side. And here is where you stop making sense: "You probably think AA is the dumbest thing ever because this is the worst thing that has EVER happend to white americans directly(sarcasm)." I note the sarcasm, but still it is a disturbing thought you had there. First off, AA effects whites, and asians, and apparently middle easterners and north africans. In fact it hurts everyone except blacks, hispanics, and native americans. Is AA the worst thing that ever happened to white Americans? I don't know. I ask, what is the worst thing that ever happened to sociaety, or to an individual, not "what bad things happened to my racial, ethnic, or religious group". It seems sad for you to say that though, considering it was white Senators who passed the Civil Rights Act, and good ole white Abe Lincoln who freed the slaves. And hundreds of thousands of white Americans who died at Gettysburg and Antietam just so the slaves still had the hope of one day becoming free. And shortly thereafter, one of the greatest Black men, Frederick Douglass, began denouncing such things as AA, saying that all the blacks wanted was to be able to stand up on their own. I believe that has happened, and that the black population is not so dumb enough to need help along the way. I don't look at things as happening to races, or to ethnic groups, unless the group was specifically targeted, such as blacks by the KKK, Jews by Hitler. I see people, not ethnic groups. You can say Hitler killed 6 million Jews, or you can read a list of all the names of those he killed, including Jews and others. Which is more poweful? I don't care if you are black, white, or yellow, I judge by character and performance. See in an ideal world, we use a meritocracy system to decide things. Not, o look, he's black and qualified, so let's snap him up and give him a fat scholarship that is reserved for minorities only! </p>
<p>Now: Economic AA! Good idea! As opposed to regular AA, it actually makes sense. Most of the time, isn't that what colleges are claiming to do with regular AA? Down with racism of ALL types and Thank God for John Roberts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
<p>^ Despite the fact that rich black and hispanic kids take advantage of AA (which by the way, bugs the hell out of me), the % of them must be extremely low (we ARE talking about top 25 colleges) b/c of the fact that many of their pops. in college are less than 10%. CC kids will have you believe that there is rampat abuse of AA by URMS but you must consider who THOSE KIDS ARE! The majority are well off white kids who attend expense and competitive schools, so when they see the few URMS attending their school they note how some/most have lower sats then they do and thus assume that all URMS, w/ less competive stats then them, apply and are accepted into top 25's. But I have a news flash for you: I can only count ONE URM who applied and got accepted to a top school (ND, she was half hispanic, and well off and well just put hispanic and well she was 19/300 so this is kinda a bad example which is kinda mak'in me even more sadder that i don't even know a 100% URM who even applied:/) ANYWAYS my point is, many middle class (and i mean MIDDLE CLASS, NOT CC MIDDLE CLASS) URMS don't even apply even if they can get that AA boost, just cost to mcuh and why bother? whats wrong with a state college? its not like they have family friends who work in admission office or have legacies.
The presitge of Education isn't that important for URMS from my understanding were I grew up.
POINT: Don't worry your little head to much as of now about a URM taking you spot, don't let CC users scare you! We're still struggle. But pretty good points I do must say, don't take offense when white people oppose AA race just when they go around and OPPOSE ECONOMIC. Will see, it MIGHT change with the nomonation of JOHN ROBERTS to the Sumpreme Court, b/c an AA case is coming up next year and he has written alot agianst AA so we shall see (5 cons/4 libs).</p>
<p>Going to visit family in mexico so don't expect a reply anytime soon.</p>
<p>Back to the topic, 'African American' is nothing more than the politically correct term for Black people. It should not be taken literally.</p>
<p>"Back to the topic, 'African American' is nothing more than the politically correct term for Black people. It should not be taken literally."</p>
<p>A VERY good point. Are we beginning to realize here how silly all this politically correct crap is? That is why South Park is such a great show. /totally off topic</p>
<p>Now, back to fun argument w/ historic:</p>
<p>"the % of them must be extremely low (we ARE talking about top 25 colleges) b/c of the fact that many of their pops. in college are less than 10%."
Wait. So now it's OK that the system is abused because, according to one person who cites no facts, it isn't abused much? And do you know what? Only ONE top USNews 25 school, Caltech, has less than 10% URMs (Native Americans, Hispanics, and African Americans). And even they had 9%. ONE, not many, not most, heck, not even 2. There goes your credibility.</p>
<p>"CC kids will have you believe that there is rampat abuse of AA by URMS but you must consider who THOSE KIDS ARE! The majority are well off white kids who attend expense and competitive schools, so when they see the few URMS attending their school they note how some/most have lower sats then they do and thus assume that all URMS, w/ less competive stats then them, apply and are accepted into top 25's."</p>
<p>First of all it's not the URMs abusing anything. They are just, by no choice of their own, given a benefit which they do not deserve. That's right, they don't deserve it. Some, perhaps many, would recieve similar treatment under a fair, economic AA system, but some would not. So the question is not how many who don't deserve are getting favors, it is why don't we just have economic AA.
The second part of your quote seems to be saying that a white person isn't qualified to say anything critical of AA. You claim that most people on CC are white and prep schooled. This is most likely false, though we don't really have a way to say for sure. I would say that there is a disproportionatly high amount of Asians on CC, and a disproportionatly high amount of prep school kids. This is because those particular groups, on average, place more emphasis on recieving a good education (usually defined by them as a top school). Notice I said 'on average'. I don't think you can find a quote on this board where anyone suggested that EVERY URM got in because of AA. I bet many hard-earned dollars that a CCer has never told you that ALL URMs got into a top 25 school, or any combination of those two thoughts. That is crazy talk. What we can say, based on scientific studies and surveys, proven over and over, is that the average SAT scores and other stats of URMs at schools practicing AA is lower than that of Asians and whites. Therefore, the statement that it is easier for a black person to get into, say, Harvard, is essentially true. You can dance around it a little, but the facts remain. This is, of course, the essence of affirmative action.</p>
<p>"But I have a news flash for you: I can only count ONE URM who applied and got accepted to a top school (ND, she was half hispanic, and well off and well just put hispanic and well she was 19/300 so this is kinda a bad example which is kinda mak'in me even more sadder that i don't even know a 100% URM who even applied:/) ANYWAYS my point is, many middle class (and i mean MIDDLE CLASS, NOT CC MIDDLE CLASS) URMS don't even apply even if they can get that AA boost, just cost to mcuh and why bother? whats wrong with a state college? its not like they have family friends who work in admission office or have legacies"</p>
<p>This first part is so childish I feel stupid responding. Just because you, personally, don't know any URMs that applied to top schools doesn't mean anything. It CERTAINLY doesn't mean that few URMs apply to top colleges. (But then again, what you are saying is that the one URM you know who got into a top college cheated the system, because they might not even technically qualify as being a URM) In fact, one might say that more URMs would apply, partly because they are aggressively solicited by top colleges, and partly because they know they have an advantage over white applicants. But I suspect you are right that the URMs do not place much importance on getting into top colleges. But here's a NEWSFLASH for you: neither does anyone else except for a segment of Asians and the elite prep school group. (BTW, I happen to be a true middle class white kid who goes to a academically crappy rural public school , only 6 APs, and about 45-50% what you would call URMs). And perhaps 3 or 4 kids in a class of 300 last year even applied to a top 30 school, and didn't expect to get in. Also a note on your last sentence: you are sorely mistaken if you think that any significant portion of the acceptees has legacy parents, let alone adcom connections. </p>
<p>"POINT: Don't worry your little head to much as of now about a URM taking you spot, don't let CC users scare you! We're still struggle. But pretty good points I do must say, don't take offense when white people oppose AA race just when they go around and OPPOSE ECONOMIC. "</p>
<p>Yeah historic, don't let those pesky facts about AA get in your prejudiced head! CCers just want to be racial oppressors! Wow. While the middle part is, well, incomprehensible, I must say, FIND ME A WHITE PERSON ON CC WHO OPPOSES ECONOMIC AA. it may redeem what little face you have left!</p>
<p>and there was poll on the cafe form where alot of white kids where agianst both.</p>