<p>My nephew visited KP the other day and spent a day with Mids going to class, meals etc. I was disappointed to learn that he had decided after visiting that KP was not going to be for him. I suppose that the visit worked as designed- it's better to figure this out before you show up rather than after you've invested a lot into getting there. But-what disappointed me and his father the most though was that what really seemed to impress him the most was the number of Mids (my brother tells me it was several different mids over the course of the day) who told him "Don't go here- it Sxxxx" or words to that effect.
My brother is a Norwich grad and I am VMI so both of us understand how among many cadets it was almost chic to be cynical about the whole experience after a while- but I don't remember ever disparaging the place to an outsider (or for that matter to any new cadets- they had to develop their cycnicism totally on their own)- We saw VMI as our place to trash talk about among ourselves internally, but externally even the grossest first class private would "tee-off" on an outsider who disparaged the place. My son is at VMI now (turned down USMMA as he wanted to be a soldier and got a 4yr Army scholarship there) and at least that much of the cadets attitude has not changed in 35 years.
So I can't help but think that USMMA (and probably my nephew as he was too inexperienced to recognize the inevitable cynic doesn't always speak with an unbiased opinion) was badly served by some of their mids. For the Mids in the audience- you ought to learn to differentiate between an internal audience and the uninitiated unless you really are trying to disparage your own. In this case- while he has all of the creds to get accepted at USMMA I'm not sure that my nephew was the right guy for KP- but it seems stupid to me for some unhappy mids to deliberately poison their own well. I hope that's just a few unhappy campers (to misquote Dan Quayle).</p>
<p>My son went for a visit as well. He also had some mids tell him not go there. He was able to look past the voices of a few and look at the success of many. I must say he did his research and can quote statics left and right about the academy. </p>
<p>He told me at our last visit to the academy that he absolutely loves it there! He said the classes are hard and he has to make a choice to study every available chance. We have ask him on several occassions if he still thinks he made the right choice of which he always replies.."absolutely!". </p>
<p>As a parent of a happy mid...thank you USMMA !!!</p>
<p>My plebe also had that experience last year. We decided to contact several alum who might have the perspective of time to see what they thought about their experience and decision to attend KP. To a person, and we spoke to about 6, couldn't say enough about what KP had done for them as individuals and for their careers. Yes, they said, school there is very hard and when you are in the trenches, life can seem bleak. But their experiences since graduation plus their KP sea years, have made them forever grateful that they had the foresight and the determination to attend KP and get through. Also, friendships formed while at USMMA have been lasting and are cherished. Speaking to the alumni was the clincher for my plebe and he has not regretted his decision. Kind of like childbirth - not fun while you're going through it, but boy, what a great reward at the end!</p>
<p>Sadly there are those Mids among us that hate their life for being here. But for the majority of us we either love it or don't mind it all. Sure some days, your mood is "I hate this place" but that's typically a full day of classes or something going down within the regiment. KP is what you make it. For me, I squeeze as much fun and great times out of KP that I'm able to. But there are those Mids here that hate their lives.</p>
<p>Agreed 100% with you keydet. My son is very happy with his choice, and as you said, life sucks there [and at all military schools for that matter] sometimes, but you should never voice it to an outsider. One day you may hate it and the next day be on top of the world and love your situation and it's sad that some of these mids don't know how to keep their mouth shut. </p>
<p>They not only poison their "own well," but they may actually be hurting a person who would benefit and reap great rewards from an education at KP. To those nay sayers that feel the need to darken everyone with their black clouds, perhaps they should be the ones leaving KP, not the potential new student.</p>
<p>USMMA Class of 2012 must have had a tough plebe summer. Weather wasn't bad so it couldn't have been the heat. It usually takes until the doldrums of winter, at least for USNA, before the cynicism really kicks in. That is why I always recommend a fall visit during a football weekend.</p>
<p>Good advice USNA69 :)</p>
<p>Excellent recommendation 69--football always makes me happy!! (Unless of course we lose!!)</p>
<p>Nice point 69. Do you guys think that some of the "Don't come HERE!" isn't some tiny form of one of those crazy traditions? Here is why I'm wondering....They did it to my son at the Citadel (screamed out of the windows while Knob Candidates were departing), I once read about it happening on the WP forums & they said it to a young lady I know now in her 2nd year at NA. Is this some crazy thing they all do?</p>
<p>My Plebe seems to having a great time at KP. Is it hard? Absolutely! Is there never enough time? of course! But he sees the end will get him onto the road he wants. He knows about his friends going to the big state college and playing video games and guitar all day...he knows they may be sent home due to grades. THis week he informs me that the 2012 class is back as plebe candidates. He doesn't know why but even this will pass. Time to Cowboy Up and move forward. Hey, if they will take old guys, I'll fly up for classes right now!! IF it wasn't hard...they'd let everyone in! Go KP</p>
<p>Shame. Since USMMA is on a trimester, it's a little out of the standard timeline of where other schools are as far as workload. These guys are basically a month from end of term... soo, midterms done, grades/workloads/everything is lining up for the final push. The standard 'deer-in-the-headlights'/'how am I going to fit all this in' service academy stressors are in full swing.</p>
<p>Good point about the mids' comments. We saw that at each of the academies we visited as well, to some extent, after talking with the students. Asking 'WHY?' gave S the gouge he needed for his decision. When all the positioning and glossies and hype falls away, your kid will generally know it in his heart when he walks onto campus and it 'feels' like the right place for him. Mine did, anyway. On-site visits are just great for making that determination. </p>
<p>He's couldn't be happier with his choice.... although this exact INSTANT he's not exactly "mr sunshine".</p>
<p>Recollecting back now, from S's visits, as well as nephew visits to other (non-SA campuses)... there was not a single one where our little tour group didn't hear a muffled 'Save yourselves, Run away<snicker,snicker>' from a group than had just rounded the corner, just out of sight. Moreso at the non-SA campuses.</snicker,snicker></p>
<p>I visited KP my junior year of high school, about two weeks before the Class of 2007 recognition. I also heard many mids yell out "don't come here". I'm not "justifying" it, but I was able to look past that kind of stuff and applied to KP, got in, accepted it and have been riding through it ever since. Now, I'm graduating in June (knock on wood). I figured if the place was that bad, there wouldn't be so many that stick through it (and that is true). Yeah, life here CAN be miserable at times, but you have to keep the big picture in mind. I had a goal and I'm very close to reaching it. Everything else is secondary. The opportunities that KP has given/will give me are phenomenal. </p>
<p>That being said, the overnight stay with a mid is for sure the best way to know about the daily life at the academy. It's the raw deal - you see a typical day (at least, as a plebe). Plebe year has its difficult parts and the academics are no cakewalk either. </p>
<p>I can't judge because I don't know the kid, but I find it hard to believe that the ONLY reason he was turned off of KP was because of the mids telling him not to come (and yeah, almost every recruit will "get that earful" from someone at some point - it's typical). If this place is for you, you'll be able to tune that stuff out. Perhaps the overall program was just not for him, and that's fine, since this place isn't for everybody.</p>
<p>I agree with KPMid09. If a midshipman told him not to come, it might have been connected to an "if" thought, such as "if you need someone to make your bed, don't come," perhaps in response to something the nephew asked or said. In any case, it may have hit exactly the nerve it should have hit. When my son visited, the plebes gave him a very clear idea of how tough KP is. This not only helped him decide that it was worth the personal cost, but alerted him to what he was getting into and helped him avoid discouragement later on those very tough days. That is why the overnight visits are so valuable.</p>
<p>One other thing: Don't EVER take what a mid randomly (and anonymously) yells out, seriously. I believe that if a recruit (ANY recruit) actually takes the time to ask a mid some serious questions (plebe and upperclass) you won't hear ANYONE say "don't come here." The vast majority of us are proud of being here and don't regret it. The whole shout-out thing is done tongue-in-cheek. It may not be "proper", but it happens.</p>
<p>Don't get me wrong- I believe that KP is a great place and that most of the mids have the yin and yang of life in a military environment down perfectly (ie.. life will have it's crappy moments and great moments- and after reflection even some of the crappy ones turn out to be kind of humorous). I am pretty skeptical that my nephew would have been a good fit there because of a tendency to want to be a loner and so the outcome of this visit might have been good in this case- but I do think that it's a pretty poor approach on the part of some of the mids who he (and my brother) spoke with to be that negative. While my brother clearly understood the drill- he didn't think that his kid did and was certain that his wife didn't and it skewed the conversation away from a more reasoned consideration of the place. So again- mids need to remember that whenever they are dealing with the outside-they are representing USMMA and act accordingly. That's a Dad and an Army retiree speaking but I don't think it makes it any less true even if I am an old fogey.</p>
<p>Keydet, you are absolutely correct, and thank you for taking the time to post. You have all the qualifications anyone needs.. you were there, and you saw it. Your intentions are honorable--to identify an issue so it can be addressed. The Mids need to be aware that their actions DO have consequences, especially with outsiders looking to make a decision. </p>
<p>And from every interaction I have had with mids at several SAs, and a large number of them at this one in particular, they DO. It is unfortunate that you got one that had sour grapes. </p>
<p>I wish your day visit had gone like the one my S and I had. A Mid gave us an excellent presentation, toured the campus, some classrooms, and saw how he kept his room. All the while, I observed his military bearing, and of other Mids on campus, far from our tiny tour. They were impeccable. Our guide also answered questions directly.The things that he said would be hard, have been hard. The things he said that would be great, have been great. And his characterization of the unparalleled benefits and challenges of Sea Year echo true from other Mids' stories.. and is greatly anticipated by out S as well. My S and I hung back at the end of the tour, and asked to speak with him. We also spoke with other Mids, at random. We asked hard questions--we got honest, balanced, thoughtful answers. </p>
<p>And that is what every single candidate needs, in order to determine if USMMA is the right fit for them. It's what we got, and I wish your nephew has as well.</p>
<p>My mid was always on the line; he didn't sign on to KP until the LAST DAY. Wasn't sure if he wanted to miss out on the college life and was totally intimidated by regiment. Well....long story short, it's been a perfect fit for him. But, when he went up for his overnight, it rained. In fact, it rained every time we went up there (this was a tad daunting even for me), but I think what put him over the edge was sailing. He found his nook there on the visit. So que sera sera.....</p>
<p>All the talk by educators in HS about critical thinking skills - hey, this one of the first real chances for these kids to really start thinking while making their college decisions. Sure, they want the normal college experience. If only we parents could have had the luxury. (Lived home, worked and paid for college myself.) But my s did his homework while visiting USMMA several time. The answer, yes this are 4 hard years, but we are looking beyond that short time line.
Question: Do you like it here? Answer: sometimes yes and sometimes no, but I'm not here to just like it, I'm here to get an education that will put me on a worthwhile career path.
Question: What about missing the normal college experience? Answer: Yes, my friends seem to be partying all the time and school for them is an afterthought, but after I graduate I will have incredible opportunities and my friends will be scratching their heads and wondering what will they do now.
Bottom line - these potential candidates must sort through all this information and make a mature decision and have the ability to sort through all the information and see beyond the next few years. That's why these older mids are so impressive. They have the satisfaction of knowing that they are accomplishing something worth working for.</p>
<p>My favorite quote from an alumni is something to the effect:</p>
<p>You can go to KP and work hard for four years and have fun the rest of your life, or you can go to "normal" college and play for four years and work hard the rest of your life...</p>
<p>that's it in a nutshell :D</p>