<p>Hey I'm new to college confidential, and i joined to ask some college questions, obviously... I've been looking into William and Mary for a while and it is currently my number one (and I plan on keeping it there...) Before I get too hopeful, I want to ensure that I have a chance and any feedback will be super helpful! I have around a 3.9 gpa in hs and my sat scores aren't back yet but I hope to get around a 1900/2000. I play on the varsity tennis team (will be capitan this upcoming year) , am involved in the music and theater departments with chorus, band, the play, and the musical. I am also in National Honor Society, editor and chief of the Yearbook, and am very involved in my youth group at church. I know I am an out of state girl thats applying and that I have a slim chance because I am Caucasian, but I was born in Bosnia in Europe and I am going to be a first generation college goer. I also speak Croatian/Bosnian/Serbian fluently and can write it. Please let me know what you think, thanks so much!</p>
<p>Ah…out of state girl with a 1900 SAT gives you a lower chance. If you could bump that up a little (try the ACT perhaps?), it would be better.</p>
<p>Also, is that 3.9 weighted or unweighted?</p>
<p>Your EC’s are really good though, keep those up. And I have a feeling the fluency in Croatian/Bosnian/Serbian is a plus. That’s not something that’s usually seen.</p>
<p>If you can bump the SAT/ACT a little, make sure you’re taking challenging courses, and write some killer essays (about being born in Bosnia perhaps? A cultural essay?), you have a good shot. </p>
<p>W&M has a habit of having strange admission results because it’s a very holistic process. They don’t just admit for the numbers, they admit for the entire person. So try to show who you really are, what you love to do, your passions, etc. as well as showing off your academic achievements.</p>
<p>Weighted I think I have around a 4.1? And I’m taking 5 ap’s next year, and yes… I’m working on raising the sats. Thanks so much this is really helpful!</p>
<p>A couple of additional questions: will you need financial aid, and might you be able to apply Early Decision? If finaid is necessary, there are no guarantees for OOS students that W & M will meet their demonstrated need (the school does meet 100 percent of need for Virginians, though).</p>
<p>If your parents can cover the full cost of attendance, I think you’ll have a bit of a leg up. The College needs students like these in order to be able to fund those students who have financial need. And if you don’t need to compare financial aid offers from various schools before making a decision, you might want to apply ED, provided that W & M is your first choice. As at almost every school, the acceptance rate is higher for ED applicants.</p>
<p>I agree with Rixs that your ECs are outstanding! These, your unusual language skills, and being a first generation college student will make you a very appealing applicant. Have you thought about trying the ACT? Some students really do much better on it than the SATs.</p>
<p>^I did much better on the ACT, if you want an example. Converted to SAT points, it was about a 300 point difference. =)</p>
<p>I agree about the Finaid. If you think you can hack the cost, I would apply ED. If Finaid is a HUGE problem, apply Regular Decision. It’s a little harder to get accepted, but if you get accepted ED and then can’t pay…you’ll get stuck because you’re supposed to withdraw all other apps.</p>
<p>And good on the 3.9/4.1! That’s a great GPA.</p>
<p>Frazzled, I don’t think the admissions officers know about the financial status when deciding who to admit… if that is what you were implying.</p>
<p>But yeah, I agree. Your scores are on the lower side (have you not taken many honors classes, or does your school have a weird way of giving extra GPA?), but your EC’s are terrific. It wouldn’t be a match in state, so its definitely a reach OOS.</p>
<p>You’re probably right, Here<em>to</em>Help. I did a quick search on the W&M financial aid webpages and didn’t find any references to either need-blind or need-aware policies. I guess I assumed (should never do that!) it was applicable to the review process because I seem to remember a question regarding whether d was applying for finaid on the application? Hoping W&M Admissions will be back Monday to give us the answer. Sorry if I’ve created any confusion, OP!</p>
<p>Yes I have taken all honors and a few ap and am taking all aps next year so im hoping that will make up for my lacking in sat scores, and I am also planning on applying early decision.</p>
<p>One of the first questions on the W&M application when I applied was: “Do you expect to be eligible for the W&M Gateway Scholars program which eliminates all debt for Virginia residents whose families earn less than $40,000 per year?” </p>
<p>That’s not verbatim, but it was something along those lines. I only remember because I was going through old papers the other day and was looking at some paper college applications I had gotten from my high school guidance counselor.</p>
<p>But the point is that I’m pretty sure that the school does take financial need into consideration (at least if you’re a VA resident and your fam makes <$40K/yr).</p>
<p>Also, a lot of colleges don’t straight up ask you on the application, “Will your parents be able to pay full tuition for you to come here?” However, almost every application asks for your parent’s occupation. If you list both of your parents as medical doctors, accountants, lawyers, engineers, etc. it’s likely that you are going to have relatively low financial need. Obviously it’s not a perfect indicator, nor am I saying that all schools who ask this question are asking it to take financial need into consideration, they may be just asking to get a better idea of where you’re coming from and what perspectives you can possibly offer. However, I wouldn’t bet against some schools using it as a proxy to judge which students can pay full tuition and which cannot without straight up asking you.</p>
<p>I go to W&M and even though the admissions are supposed to be harder for out-of-state students, I think you have a very good chance. Maybe bump up the standardized test score if you can and finish with strong grades in your senior year. The Croatian/Bosnian/Serbian is really interesting; they’ll like that. We have a small group of students teaching English in Bosnia this summer. If you can, try to come in for a summer interview.</p>
<p>Yeah I signed up for an interview June 9th, I’m a little nervous but I think it’ll be a great experience, and yeah I saw those students doing a fundraiser for their Bosnia trip when i went on a college visit.</p>
<p>“If Finaid is a HUGE problem, apply Regular Decision. It’s a little harder to get accepted, but if you get accepted ED and then can’t pay…you’ll get stuck because you’re supposed to withdraw all other apps.”</p>
<p>No, you’re not stuck. If the ED FA offer is not enough to enable you to attend, you just say thanks but no thanks, and apply RD to other schools as if you hadn’t applied ED. You must withdraw other apps only if you accept the ED offer.</p>
<p>The sticking point there, as I understand it, is that the school must fail to meet the needed amount as per FAFSA standards. The family must be able to cover its EFC - and many families find they cannot. The finaid offer may also consist of a heavy component of loans instead of grants, and the student/family may be hesitant to take on substantial debt. For an OOS student at W&M, the loan portion would certainly be significant, because the school meets the needs of in-state students first.</p>
<p>ED is a great option for students with a clear first choice who don’t need to compare finaid offers. Of course, you never have to accept an offer from any college - but your other options are usually limited (gap year, a state institution with demonstrably lower tuition following a discussion with the ED school). For example, you may apply ED to Duke and be accepted but find your family can’t really pay its EFC, even though Duke’s finaid offer covers 100 percent of your demonstrated need. Duke would not simply say “sorry and good luck” if you then apply RD to Vanderbilt, Rice, and Emory in the hopes of receiving a better finaid offer. </p>
<p>Each year there are several contentious threads on the Parents Forum debating the binding nature of early decision. Here are a few memorable ones: </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/826733-decline-early-decision-acceptance-offer.html?highlight=early+decision[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/826733-decline-early-decision-acceptance-offer.html?highlight=early+decision</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/473601-what-exactly-happens-if-you-back-out-early-decision.html?highlight=early+decision[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/473601-what-exactly-happens-if-you-back-out-early-decision.html?highlight=early+decision</a></p>
<p>“The sticking point there, as I understand it, is that the school must fail to meet the needed amount as per FAFSA standards.”</p>
<p>Or else what?</p>
<p>“Duke would not simply say “sorry and good luck” if you then apply RD to Vanderbilt, Rice, and Emory in the hopes of receiving a better finaid offer.”</p>
<p>So what would they say or do?</p>
<p>Here’s what the Common App ED instructions say:
<a href=“https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/docs/downloadforms/ED_Agreement.pdf[/url]”>https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/docs/downloadforms/ED_Agreement.pdf</a></p>
<p>An article on the subject:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/education/edlife/strategy.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/education/edlife/strategy.html</a></p>
<p>There seems to be some room for interpretation in the phrase “not be offered an award that makes attendance possible.” It may be possible for a family to borrow heavily for undergrad debt, make significant sacrifices at home, etc. - but the family may not choose to do this. Where does that leave the student? Some parents, perhaps even some colleges, may be fine with the refusal of a binding offer; others are not. </p>
<p>I don’t think this thread is the place to debate the ethics of ED. Being cautious by nature, our family heeded the warnings from adcoms, hs GCs, CC posters, and others not to apply ED unless we could live with the financial offer made by the school. I still think this is the best advice. Some folks may wish to push the envelope, take a “so sue me” attitude, or interpret the words “binding” and “possible” more generously.</p>
<p>W & M Admissions, can you tell us what actions W & M takes when an ED offer is refused for this reason?</p>
<p>There are no ethics involved, and no interpretation needed, if the family finds the ED FA offer is not sufficient, and it is solely the family’s decision. The Common App ED agreement is clear. Common App chools don’t take actions in this case.</p>
<p>I know this is a topic of special interest to you, having read your posts on the subject many times. I’d still like to hear what W & M Admissions has to say about it. </p>
<p>And apologies to nstennisgrl1 for helping to get this thread so far off track. OP, is ED a possibility for you at all?</p>
<p>It’s fine! I’m curious also, and yes early decision is a possibility if they do give me at least some financial aid…but I’m hoping to ask them about that at my interview.</p>
<p>I’ll try here to answer numerous questions that have arisen.</p>
<p>1) W&M admits about 25% of the out-of-state students who apply but because we have no minimum criteria, every student is considered thoroughly and no one is automatically put into one decision category merely because of scores. You should certainly highlight your unique qualities (your Eastern European background, language abilities, and first-generation status) so that they can be considered (and subjective qualities carry equal weight for us as the objective ones). We would also encourage you to try the ACT or take the SAT again just to see if it makes a difference allowing you to put your best foot forward</p>
<p>2) W&M is need blind. We do not have any financial info on a student who is applying. The Gateway question we used to pose on the Supplement (which we no longer do) was to help us put students in context of their upbringing.</p>
<p>3) Students should not apply early decision of they need to compare financial aid or scholarship packages. You should apply early decision to any school only if you’re certain you can commit to going if admitted. Certainly no school will drag you to its campus if you release yourself from the agreement but keep in mind if you’re admitted early decision and then back out you’ve taken a spot from another student who says W&M is their first choice school. We encourage you to contact Financial Aid prior to applying early and to complete some on-line worksheets to get a sense of what your expected family contribution will be and what you can expect as far as aid.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Thanks, W&M Admission! I really appreciate admissions deans who take the time to answer questions, and this benefits more people than just the OP!</p>