Wellesely, Whitman, or Grinnell?

Parents Corner
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<p>Who would have thought that this stage would be so stressful? My D is having a very, very difficult time choosing which LAC to attend and we would value your input. Each school is excellent academically, but the cost and culture vary significantly. </p>

<p>D attends a public magnet high school in California where many of her friends are high performing, religious, children of immigrants. She is athletic, Jewish, politically liberal, out-doorsy, and a bit preppy. She is conservative personally and doesn’t like to be around a lot of alcohol consumption. She is fairly social and fits into the mainstream of her unusual high school, but is not a social leader. D is beginning to be sad about the idea of living far from home. </p>

<p>D feels that the best fit for her is Wellesley (in Massachusetts). The young women have a tight social network, most alcohol consumption happens away from campus, and the students’ ethnic backgrounds are similar to my D’s high school. We have family in the area with whom D is close. The cost is $44 k per year. (We could pay this amount, but there would be no funds left for graduate school and D would need to work hard every summer.)</p>

<p>Whitman (in Washington) is close enough that weekend trips home are possible. Alcohol consumption on campus is about average. The school does not have sub-free dorms. About a third of the students are in Greek organizations (a negative for my D because she worries about social cliques). The swim coach is excellent and the team might be a social fit. The student body is mostly white, affluent, outdoorsy, Pacific North westerners and Californians. The cost is about $30 per year. </p>

<p>Grinnell (in Iowa, with poor transportation options) has no Greek organizations. My D’s sense is that the dominant culture of the school values innovative thought and counter-culture perspectives. The school’s alcohol policy is very loose, though they offer sub-free housing. The swim team coaches are great, but my D worried that the team’s social activities revolved around alcohol. The student body is much more diverse than Whitman and includes a fair number of international students. The school offered generous merit aid. The cost would be about $24 per year. (This would allow my D many more options over the summer and some funding for graduate school.) </p>

<p>Any thoughts would be very welcomed. </p>

<p>p.s. D's other options (which we think she won't take) are Bowdoin, Middlebury, and Willamette. Only the last offered signficant aid.</p>

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<p>My Californian D is at Smith and I think the distance has been a non-issue. Yes, there were sad moments, but the total fit has been so good that she doesn't think about it...or really have time to. </p>

<p>Based on what you've said, I'd cut Grinnell from the list. The middle-of-nowhere aspect fuels a lot of the alcohol culture, I suspect.</p>

<p>I like both Wellesley and Whitman very much. Not knowing any more than what you've posted, my own inclinations would be towards Wellesley, my D's #2 choice, but jigger criteria even slightly and you can come up with a different answer.</p>

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<p>Three fine choices! I wouldn't think that Wellesley would be a prime choice for "athletic/outdoorsy" (that very much describes Whitman). Strangely, one of the "nice" things about frats is that a lot of the alcohol may be contained to them - so you can join in or not as you choose. </p>

<p>I love Grinnell - conservative it isn't. But engaged! More Peace Corps volunteers among its graduates than any school in the country.</p>

<p>I really think it is a matter of fit. Personally, I can't see that Wellesley is worth $58k more than Whitman, or $80k more than Grinnell. Straight up it is an interesting comparison, but I can't see what the "value added" would be.</p>

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<p>True. Sorry, I'd been evaluating "straight up." I tend to do it that way and then ask, "Is the money doable?" and "At what cost?"</p>

<p>I'd still put Grinnell behind Door #3.</p>

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<p>Hmm... athletic and a bit preppy sounds a lot like Wellesley to me, though you can't really stereotype - there's plenty of diversity there!</p>

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<p>This sound a LOT like our (very frequent) conversations at home!</p>

<p>Yes, her biggest worries about Wellesley is that it will be harder to cross-country ski, rock climb, etc. Also, Wellesley's athletic programs are good, but not a major part of student life. In Grinnell, for example, they boast a 1:20 ratio (one swimmer per 20 students). Whitman has a strong outdoors program and athletic students.</p>

<p>There is a major cost difference between Wellesley and the other schools--one that can't be explained away based on the quality of education. The pull to Wellesley is based on perceived social fit with the student body and proximity of relatives. Choosing Wellesely, however, has signficant costs implications regarding grad school. That is, she will be (like most of us were) on a pay (or borrow) as you go plan.</p>

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<p>My sister went to Wellesley and ended up transferring. She absolutely hated it and apparently many of her classmates hated it too but their parents wouldn't let them transfer. It may be different for your daughter, but I would really look at it carefully.</p>

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<p>Grad school is often paid for by teaching or research assistantships. I've told my kids they're on their own for grad school. Should they get into med or another kind of professional school that doesn't offer assistantships, they'll have to pay back loans from their handsome, post-graduation salaries!</p>

<p>Of the three schools you mention, Whitman stands out as having a more conservative student body. Wellesley is bigger (2200), though still pretty small. Drinking is probably big at all three, though Wellesley would offer the diversions of Boston. Good luck. You probably can't go wrong.</p>

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<p>I want to put in a Grinnell vote. Though it is remote, the drinking at Grinnell is no worse than at any of the other two colleges, and academically it is absolutely fantastic. It is remarkably diverse, and at the same time has a close knit student body. Given the dollars involved, I would consider moving it a little closer to door #1.</p>

<p>Here is an interesting article (if you haven't seen it) by Nobel winner Thomas Cech who attended Grinnell.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.collegenews.org/prebuilt/daedalus/cech_article.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegenews.org/prebuilt/daedalus/cech_article.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Whitman is a little more reasonable price wise , except for Grinnell and I have heard great things from students there. It would be my choice but again it is all about fit. Grinnell is a little bit more isolated and hence a lot more drinking.</p>

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<p>When did "isolation = drinking" make it into the fact books? I wouldn't know where to look, but isn't there a national survey on college drinking that MIGHT give the OP close to actual numbers for the three schools so she could compare? </p>

<p>Isn't Mini the resident expert on this? You might want to try PMing him.</p>

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<p>Grinell would get my vote any time from this list. It is so much more intellectual than the other schools - and it is coed. My daughter has cycled through 4 different sports in college - and has ended up in a sport completely different from the one she played all through high school. If your DD doesn't "click" with the swim team group at Grinnell she might just find a sport where she does click. Lots of kids change sports in college. (EDIT: Not to mention that with the money you save on choosing Grinnell your DD can travel home for holidays, and study abroad and start grad school. Regarding difficulty in getting to and from school: Schools in remote places run shuttlels, carpools, etc - all the kids at Grinnell manage to get there and back several times a year successfully....so I'm sure your daughter can manage also!.)</p>

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<p>All three schools are very good, but to me, Whitman sounds perfect for her. From what I know about Whitman, Greek life doesn't dominate the social scene and the sororities seemed very focused on community service.</p>

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<p>I read the headline and thought "hmm, Boston, Walla Walla, or Iowa--that's a no-brainer"--but I do see that finances are an issue. The students I know at Whitman are happy there (one former student just got accepted to veterinary school (two schools in Scotland and WSU)) and so are the former students at Wellesley. None of them report an overwhlemingly alcohol-based social life. I know nothing about Grinnell.</p>

<p>I'd be inclined to say Wellesley, if you really can manage the finances, however. That's because college is about changes in perspective, and really, there's an enormous difference between the east and the west coast. (There's probably at least as much difference between both coasts and Iowa, but I already said I know nothing about Grinnell.) And everyone should live in or near Boston at least once.</p>

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<p>My vote is for Grinnel.</p>

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<p>"Isn't Mini the resident expert on this? You might want to try PMing him."</p>

<p>I only have aggregates for these three, not for the individual. On the whole, binge drinking rates are lower for single gender schools (actually, much lower); they tend to be higher for rural schools, higher in the upper midwest and northeast, higher where there are fraternities. I would be surprised if they were much different at Whitman and Grinnell. (I actually do have numbers on Whitman - but I can't publish them - suffice it to see they are around the national average.)</p>

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<p>The whole thing that turns me off, better yet, bothers me, from the way you go through the description of the three schools is how much you emphasize alcohol in the school. If your daughter knows who she is, she simply won't drink. i honestly don't know what your fear is. You act as thought alcohol equals prison time or equals criminals and crooks.</p>

<p>last time i checked wellesly and whitman are in the middle of nowhere as well.</p>

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<p>instinctively, i wanted to respond wellesley, because i adored the school when i visited, and i am very pro-women's college. but after reading your explanations, i think i would choose grinnell. the extra cost of wellesley doesn't seem worth it, especially since it's not an extreme preference for her. (for me, my first choice - barnard - was so clearly my first choice that the cost definitely was worth it despite generous offers from other schools.) she will get just as different a perspective from grinnell as she will from wellesley, and while i'm sure grinnell has its share of drinkers, it's not a huge state school - she is going to find people there who are intellectually driven and who choose to abstain from alcohol. i think this is the case at every top liberal arts school. finally, boston may be a great city, but there will be job opportunities there after graduation.. there probably wont be in grinnell, iowa. although i came to nyc for college, i am now a bit sad that i'm never going to get the rural experience, and i think college is a good time to do something you think you might never get a chance to do again.</p>

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<p>I'd vote for Grinnell in a heartbeat. That's a significant difference in cost, without any sacrifice in quality of education. She'll find her social niche, and there will be students from all over with diverse backgrounds. With the money saved she could have some fabulous travel experiences during her summers.</p>

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<p>Wellesley isn't exactly in the middle of nowhere. It's a 20 minutes' drive to Boston/Cambridge, although traveling on the Green Line takes longer. It has cross-registering with MIT, which means it can't be that far from it.</p>

<p>That said, there's a lot going for Grinnell, too, especially from a financial point of view.</p>