<p>Many of us, myself included, agree that the right fit between student and school is extremely important. But I think there are widely differing views of just what a good fit is. </p>
<p>Some people seem to be looking for colleges (for themselves or their kids) that feel comfortable and/or familiar: These schools are near home, or like home, or embody a long-held vision of the ideal college experience; and theyre strong in the students stated major, which is not expected to change. Others take the opposite approach: They want to go to the other side of the country, or to move from a small town to a huge city, or vice versa; they dont know what theyre going to study, or predict that their interests may change in the next few years.</p>
<p>The question was brought home to me by a comment from Marite on another thread (<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=50048&page=3%5B/url%5D):">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=50048&page=3):</a>
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I think the OP's D needs to ask herself not where she will feel most comfortable in her first semester but where she will feel comfortable in her last semester. There are some who would argue that since college is such a major transition, students should minimize the discomfort. Others argue the opposite: since college is such a major transition anyway, might as well take the plunge at the deep end. That's what I did, although I am normally the most cautious of souls. I have never regretted being stretched to the utmost, but it is a very personal decision.
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Like Marite, I made the more dangerous choicean intimidating university (where, frankly, I couldnt see myself at all) over an LAC that could have been made for me. This decision was out of character for me, and I still cant really account for it. But it was the best choice Ive ever made .</p>
<p>Obviously, theres no one approachmaintaining a comfort level vs. taking the plungethats right for everyone. So how do we tell whats right for us or our children?</p>
<p>I was one who also "took the plunge" for college. One of my boys is inclined to, the other clearly was not. It was almost a visceral reaction on his part when he looked at bigger (not necessarily huge)schools. He just knew he was not going to be happy, not as a freshman and probably not as a senior, at a larger school. With the one who is so inclined- the same process yielded an opinion from him that he "could be happy at either"...and I knew it and he knew it. </p>
<p>For some, the stretch might be something such as "distance from home", climate, variations in the student population- etc...I don't think it is only the size of the school- though in our case it was, that is the determinant. </p>
<p>I completely agree with Marite that the aim of school should be to meet the needs of the person you want to be in 4 years.. so a crystal ball helps, too!!</p>
<p>Even though my daughter's college selection process is complete, I have been thinking about this question, too, ever since I read the quote from Marite which was posted above. My daughter would definitely do fine in a large university - she is extremely conscientious and well organized, works very hard at her schoolwork, is outgoing and participates in class even when no one else will volunteer, is a leader in several school activities, is not hesitant to seek out help or opportunities, and has done very well overall in a huge high school environment (about 750 in graduating class). Most of her classmates will attend large universities, so she definitely went against the tide of her peers by selecting a small LAC. Her reason for choosing a small LAC was that she actually likes knowing her teachers personally and participating in small, discussion based classes, and also that she hopes to be involved in a number of campus activities (e.g. music, community service) and felt that this would be more possible in a smaller college where the ranks of the band are not filled with all-state musicians (to use music as an example). Additionally, she wants to continue to pursue her interest in art, and at many large schools it is difficult to do this unless you are an art major. She is very happy with her decision and is looking forward to college. She hopes to be challenged academically and to be with other students who are interested in learning. But recently, I have been noticing discussions on this Parents Board suggesting that small LACs are coddling environments, are good choices for students who need suppport and hand-holding, will not stretch the student, and other similar ideas. Obviously, there are pros and cons to large universities and LACs, as has been discussed many times. My question here is, are they usually seen mainly as good environments for students who wouldn't be ready for the "plunge" to a large university, or are they a good choice for students who could easily function in either type of school, but who prefer the more personalized interactions of the LAC to the larger university environment?</p>
<p>I was not thinking in terms of LACs vs. large university.
I would caution against choosing a college just because it feels so comfortable, just like high school but better. But LACs can present tremendous opportunities for academic and social growth. </p>
<p>In my case, taking the plunge and getting out of my comfort zone meant going to a new country. New social setting, strange academic culture, classes in a language that I was not quite fluent in, etc... A bit more hand-holding would not have come amiss. I was rather miserable during my first semester. By my final semester, I was ready to embark on graduate school.</p>
<p>Thanks Marite. The opportunities for academic and social growth, as you so well put it, were what attracted my D to the LACs. For my D, a small school will be VERY different from high school, and that was part of the attraction (and the school she will attend is 500 miles from home and has students from every state and many other nations). Actually, our high school students "take the plunge", whether they want to or not, when they enter 10th grade in a high school with 2500 people that starts its day at 7:15 AM and where distances to walk in the few minutes between classes (inside, in corridors) can be up to half a mile. It is a pretty shocking plunge, at first, but both my kids came through with flying colors. Part of my thought process about the LAC for my daughter (in addition to what I wrote above) was that she has already demonstrated that she could function well in a large, rather impersonal environment, so I have no worries about her in that regard.</p>
<p>Just to be clear: I'm a big fan of LACs and didn't mean to suggest that they're unchallenging or overly comfortable. It's just that this particular LAC was an obvious fit for me, while the larger university I attended was not. </p>
<p>I don't feel that people should choose a college just because it makes them *un*comfortable. I guess, in my own case, I was eager for change; some part of me saw the larger school as being more exciting, albeit alarming, than the more comfortable choice. But it's not always easy to predict how a student will change in the course of four years. As Robyrm says, a crystal ball helps.</p>
<p>Both my boys have grown up overseas, no school in the US is going to resemble their school or their lives, that is a given. The kids at our high school are urged to consider smaller schools- for the sense of community, facile relationships with faculty and the opportunity for discourse that they provide. These are important issues for both of my boys. One is eager to take on the additional challenge of creating this for himself to a greater extent than the other one is, neither needs to be coddled. In fact, son #1, who only wanted LAC's, ultimately selected the one he did in part because he knew that kids there took academic challenges and were held accountable as young adults- which was the expectation he had for his college career! We saw LAC's which we both felt were more "high school like" and these definitely did not appeal...</p>
<p>I think if son #2 does ultimately choose a larger school (and the decision is not in) he knows he might give up something in the freshman year in terms of the easy proximity to faculty, etc...but he goes in with eyes wide open as to the potential as well. </p>
<p>Thank goodnes everyone is not a square peg, and thank goodness there are round holes. Imagine what it would be like otherwise!</p>
<p>Motherof2 - My DS was the kid who could have fit just about anywhere - but his ''fit'' was a small lac because he wanted the small classes, the personal relationship with the school and profs, the challange of it being a very selective school - did NOT need any hand holding - but he choose this environment for what it offered him - and he had great opportunities even tho it was a small school. I have to agree it was the perfect school for him.</p>
<p>My DD on the other hand - is at a fairly large out of state university - again the right ''fit for her'' - she wanted to get away from the high school mentality that every one knows your business - her graduating class was about 120 - so it was a pretty small school atmosphere. She really wanted to expand her horizens. She initially did want the ra-ra type of school - tho that has somewhat changed - but she still loves the big school atmosphere - again with many opportunities.</p>
<p>Two very different kiddos here - and two very different college experiences - but ironic that they both ended up in the south - both wanted warmer weather and the southern laid back atmosphere - which was a bit of a culture shock for both of them - but to which they both adjusted quite well for the most part - admittedly there are some things tho that they just tolerated - but such is life where ever one may be.</p>
<p>The ''FIT" for each student is as different as night and day. But I personally feel that 'fit' is a very important aspect of the college process - if the 'fit' is not a good one - a happy camper they will NOT be. My DS knew exactly what he wanted as far as even which school he wanted to go to - and he got there. My DD was a bit different - she looked at quite a few school - applied to 3 good - but different - schools - each with a different personality (one she ruled out the day she mailed the application - oops) - accepted at all 3 - all with the major in the direction she wanted to go - at the time. She chose the one that she felt ''fit'' her the best - the one she could picture herself at over a long period of time - the one that 'felt' right - we did visit all of them so she had a good clue of what they were about. She has since changed her major - and the school she is at had - we discovered - the perfect one for her - the other 2 would have been a challange if that had happened there - we have since found that out also. So she is definitely at the right school where she belongs.</p>
<p>The issue of fit is not explored enough on this site. It is certainly mentioned with great frequency, but most often in opposition to selecting a college for its USNEWS ranking or local reputation. A lot of folks, including me, toss the concept around without a lot of definition or clarity, and in a way, when applied to a college the term "fit" may not have any more value than the term "prestigious."</p>
<p>Very much related to a previous post, to me a good fit means a school where the student will show significant growth academically, personally and socially. Exactly how that growth is shown, and the factors that stimulate that growth will vary across the general student population, and may not be clear even after a student has graduated.</p>
<p>Ivyqueen's eagerness for change meant that a challenging, large school environment was a good fit for her. Another student may need a more predictable and nurturing environment to focus on learning. One student may need the stimulation of an urban environment, and another may need the peace and quiet of an isolated LAC. And so on. . .</p>
<p>If my head wasn't stuffed with a few other challenging issues I'd want to spend a bunch of time on this one.</p>
<p>For some kids, "fit' may mean "that which stretches". We are dealing with this issue too. My D really feels that Princeton would be the biggest stretch for her, that Berkeley - for all its size - and Stanford will be comfortable. So for her, it's the California piece that determines comfort vs. stretch. However, she ran out of high school after 3 years, meaning she has been ready to graduate for a long time. So part of me wants to really encourage her to stretch, part of me wants to tell her it doesn't matter, because I hardly want to send her across the country if she will be unhappy. From my discussion with her this afternoon, describing jmmom's decision process to her, this will probably be the turning point of her choice. I think I can only help her analyze her decision, not encourage her one way or the other. This is a key issue, I agree.</p>
<p>I agree that the issue of fit is not explored enough on CC. Daughter #1 is off to Tulane in the Fall, so the issue of "fit" is a moot point for her (even though the fit is excellent!). But D#2 is a sophomore now, and figuring out what kind of fit is best for her will be a challege. So I'm going to bump this up in hopes of getting some more ideas on the subject.</p>
<p>This is a good thread Queen. I've been thinking about this for some time.</p>
<p>There is so much discussion about "fit". Students visit schools and say "ahhh, I can see myself here". Parents say "the kids I saw strolling across campus looked JUST like my kid. Thus, the fit is good."</p>
<p>The school matches the academic intensity of the student. Thus, the fit is good. </p>
<p>"The social quality of life mirrors what my kid is looking for because it's how they spend their social time today. Thus, the fit is good." </p>
<p>Or "My kid is conservative, these kids are conservative. The fit is good." </p>
<p>Or "My kid is a socially conscious liberal with spiked hair who won't declare a gender - this school has a dorm for socially conscious liberals who have spiked hair and won't declare a gender -so the fit is GOOD!"</p>
<p>But, how do we embrace the "good fit" while also seeking a place that will s t r e t c h them out of their comfort zones and mold them into more mature adults with a more tolerant view of the world's people? </p>
<p>Should we target the "good" fit, but not the "best" fit? Should we look at what doesn't fit and determine whether or not the difference would be beneficial?</p>
<p>Exactly, Momsdream. I don't have a magic formula for evaluating fit, but I do think it's important to ask questions beyond "Do people here look/act/think like my kid?" (or even "Do people from this school get good jobs in my child's chosen field?"--since the child may not know very much about advanced work in that field when he gets out of high school).</p>
<p>Maybe an aspect of fit is that the student will be comfortable not in the sense that everyone is like him or her, but in the sense the s/he will be comfortable with this as a jumping off point for growing and exploring. Just as our parental job is to give them roots and wings, I am thinking of comfort as a place where they feel they can spread those wings, and a place which will provide good transitional roots as they grow.</p>
<p>I think many of our kids have an instinctive feel for this. S felt immediately comfortable at Tulane (just as an eg) on our recent admitted students visit. It is not that it is just like where we live (it isn't at all), or that everyone seems just like him. But everyone did not seem totally in opposition to his comfort (ie, it was not a preppy, fashion type school which is not him; there were kids with his level of academic intensity; he felt it easy to join in...). The programs he's interested in are there, and others in case he grows away from current plans. In essence, he just felt this would be a great place to be in a new expansive phase of his life.</p>
<p>I think Jmmom is on to something. DD started her college search by saying "I want a school greater than 1000 miles away from home". My response to that was to put my daughter in the car and drive her 600 miles from home, partly to get a sense of how far away 1000 miles really is. We then visited schools far from our region to get a sense of differences. From these visits and her pondering came a sense that "fit" for her was any characteristic that allowed her to feel comfortable in a school that met her number one most important criterion - 1000 miles from home.
In other words she started out thinking she wanted something really radically different, but came to see that while she really wanted to live in a very different part of the country, she needed some familiarity, and some grounding, to grow those wings. Another aspect of "roots and wings" that became important to her, was that she really wanted to be "average" - she may disagree when she starts making Cs and can't go to med school, oh well - she wanted to be in a crowd of kids where being smart was not an immediate badge of difference.
Fit slowly changed, or maybe became clearer, as she began to prioritize what was important.</p>
<p>I have thought about this a lot too. I asked my college sophomore daughter if it would be better to go to an academically challenging college where a student will always be stretching themselves or a college where the academics are challenging but there's time to have have a good social life. She said it's more important to go to the most challenging school. And I've been replaying that conversation in my head and realized that for her, it's the right answer. In high school, she was a B+ student that had a big social life. Now that she's in college she already has all the social skills and makes friends easily but has started working harder then she's ever worked before on her academics. She told me after her freshman quarter that she didn't know how much she was capable of until she got to college.</p>
<p>For my son, however, I'm not sure how he would do if he got into a reach school and had to work really, really hard. For my daughter it's always been that she did whatever was thrown at her but my son tends to do the least amount possible and call it good enough. Until this tough junior year, that's worked and gotten him A grades. For him, fit might mean a less challenging college and one that allows him to develop a little more socially. Fit means being comfortable and even happy, right?</p>
<p>I took the plunge and was happy. But there was good reason to think that it would work. I was an only child, used to being by myself and going off by myself. I was also used to taking plunges, having gone on various long (for the age) excursions by myself or with one friend and without parents. I was also used to thinking differently from my parents and many peers.</p>
<p>So, I'd say comfort versus plunge should be looked at in view of what the student is like and how happy/successful he/she has been on previous "plunges".</p>
<p>I think the academic plunge can be calibrated reasonably easily. The social plunge seems more complex to me. Maybe that's because people are such complicated systems:) Anyway, what are you all thinking about sending your kid to a place where socially they may be different? You know what I honestly worry about? Sending my D to a place where all the girls are blonde and 5'6" and other variants are less in demand. Is that weird? I mean, I think boys are way harder than school as a teenager. What do you all think about when you decide if a school is a social "plunge"? Politics, OK. Geography, OK. What else?</p>