<p>I don't know if this question has been asked before or not but it has been on my mind a lot lately as I try to help my sister and her rising senior daughter untangle the incredible mass of information connected to the transition from highschool to college. At this point, they are narrowing down their list of colleges to apply to which means they have to come to terms with, and decide, what exactly "fit" means. This past year, they trekked across the country and have gone on numerous campus tours and visits on their search. </p>
<p>We all want our future college student to be happy both socially and academically, so, when you folks think about the factors that make, or made, a good, or great college experience for your S or D, what comes to mind?</p>
<p>Your post made me think. As we were going through the college process with my daughter this past year everyone (guidance counselors, teachers, admissions officers, guide books, parents who were veterans of the process) kept preaching the importance of "fit," but what exactly is fit? I am not sure that I ever really found an answer and my guess is that even if I did, my idea of what "fit" means might not exactly fit anyone else.</p>
<p>In the end what "fit" came down to for us was finding a college where my daughter immediately felt comfortable with both the surroundings and the people, but not so comfortable that she didn't feel a little jolt of excitement and anxiety at the unfamiliar.</p>
<p>Selecting the colleges to apply to and making a final decision about which college to attend are important, but they're not the only things to focus on.</p>
<p>I think it's also important to pay attention to other aspects of the transition to college. Students need to know what the experience of going to college is like, and they need to be able to handle many aspects of their lives independently. </p>
<p>We should not get so caught up in the college admissions process that we forget to help our kids prepare for college life.</p>
<p>Some thoughts
I want a college where my student can grow academically, socially, physically and spirtiually.
Some examples
Academics- Do they have a course of study (or multiple ones -assuming changes) that match up with students general interests, ackowledging they will likely change. Are the coursed challenging enough (but not too challenging) to allow student to gain significant knowdelgede and learning skills. Professors teaching most classes, challenging assignments, possibly opportunities for oversea study.
Social- Enough students with similar interests and backgrounds -or different in some cases... A place were socializion is real and different views are honored. For me this would also mean dormitories at least for year one and probably two .... Also most likely not a commuter type school. A place and environment that fosters solid romanitic relationships- not -too much- casual sex and relationships in the environment.<br>
Physically- A limit as much as possible to binge drinking, drugs and unprotected sex. Also possibly a focus on participating in physical activity Basically 'smell' to see the culture on a campus
Spititually- While a Christian I am not looking for a specific religious experience, but a college that fosters a focus on something other than self , a generally non-material culture, but also a culture of self-reliance and self-responsibility.</p>
<p>I also believe college should provide a stepping stone to whatever is next --grad school work etc. Students shoud be able to grow in maturity to understand that they need to be self-relian and not rely on their parents to support them in Arcane pursuits. </p>
<p>my thughts as i wrote this I decided to mention specifics ... for me if i go throught this as a checklist it might really weed down the options. I thinkt he trick is assessing things like sexual relations etc</p>
<p>How interesting that you promote self reliance yet you seek limits on social behaviors by the institution. Interesing point of view. BTW could you share an example of an arcane interest?</p>
<p>rty456, I am puzzled about how a college could discourage casual sex or unprotected sex. I can't see any practical way in which this could be accomplished. Might you be asking more than a college can deliver when it comes to these particular aspects of college life?</p>
<p>I guess cutting off the beer also cuts off the Beer Google behaviors? Maybe that is it. BJ Univ. That school controls social behaviors. Some aspire to attend there. Some there will have a successful experience.</p>
<p>I have a different view of "fit" than most people who post at CC because I don't define it as finding the school where your niece will "be happy both socially and academically" or where she "can grow academically, socially, physically and spirtiually". She can do those things at almost any college. The best college in the world can't provide fulfillment and happiness if your niece doesn't have the mindset to learn and expand her horizons. For that reason, I agree with Marian that preparing your niece to transition to college life is as important as which college she selects.</p>
<p>Hopefully all the adults here are happily married people who love their spouses and companions. Nevertheless, even happily married people will counsel their children that there isn't one person in the world for them. We can meet, fall in love, and stay happily married to many people if we decide we want to. Sure, it's hard sometimes to stick it out when times get tough, and it can be tempting to check out the grass on the other side of the fence. I bet you get my point, so ...</p>
<p>Tell your niece to choose the college that she likes and that wants her. Help her pick a college that fits her family's financial needs and that has the academics, location, prestige, people, resources, or whatever else appeals to her. Most of all, help her realize that there will be times she will be homesick, sad, and regret her college choice because we all regret decisions at some moment in our lives. Most of us also have happy, exciting, and positive experiences that overshadow those fleeting moments of regret.</p>
<p>Here is the process DD went through in deciding the kind of college she wanted to go to. She listed all the attributes of a college -- from athletics, to Greek life to living arrangements, academic offerings, location, etc. </p>
<p>Then she made distinctions within those categories: ie athletics: did she care if the college had "big time" sports or D-III level sports? did she care if the college was in a big city or small town? did it have to be close to home?</p>
<p>From this she created a profile of the kind of college that would be a fit. Then she visited colleges that seemed to have the right profile.</p>
<p>It was interesting how her perspective changed over time. At first she wanted to go to a giant university -- a Pac 10 type school, but by the end she decided she wanted a small liberal arts college environment.</p>
<p>It was a long process, but it worked. She will be senior next year and is completely satisfied with her choice.</p>
<p>"FIT" involves the things that differ school to school. At almost any college, you get the essential experience of being on your own and growing, but there are finer points that make a place feel "right."</p>
<p>I do agree with DRJ4 that most kids can enjoy many schools and it is healthy to keep an open mind, but visiting a variety of schools will point up some obvious differences that may matter to a given student:</p>
<p>-size of school-- some crave being in a sea of people, some crave intimacy, some want a happy medium
-residential campus vs. commuter/off campus emphasis
-lots of well-attended activities at school vs. kids scatter into the city
-academic freedom versus structure (open curriculum---> distribution requirements--->specific requirements--->core curriculum)
-campus culture: frat presence, variety of social options, politics, typical scocial scene, religious affiliation, dating scene, attitude
-location: city, town, the sticks</p>
<p>SBmom's list of considerations sounds like good advice.</p>
<p>I had one D. who wanted such an unusual major that it limited her choices of schools considerably. She did not care if there was a Greek presence, a football team or really much of anything else as long as they had her two majors.</p>
<p>My sons looked at majors (which were more mainstream), location, size of school, size of classes, % classes taught by TAs, intramural sports opportunities, general "look" of students on campus, % students returning after freshman year, residential campus was desired, and off campus town "feel". These "feel" things were hard for me, evidently you must be 18 in order to pick up on some of this stuff :).</p>
<p>With almost every student, I think there are a few "must haves" that will rise to the surface in the (analyzing and/or intuiting) of the degree of fit. They may not be able to articulate the key factors at the beginning of the search (that's where parents can help, with their (usually) greater tolerance for detail, by researching each school being considered) but by decision time, most students are quite aware of what the most important features are to them among the areas of academic programs, opportunities, style and rigor, the student body, size, location, living conditions, their favorite ECs, and other factors. </p>
<p>For example, by decision time, academic programs/features accounted for roughly 50% of my son's choice. Approximately 10% was location (a high energy place, not in a small town, etc.) and the remaining 40% was the quality and quantity of support for his ECs. There were a number of colleges that he eliminated because they had a less-than-robust theatre scene, or didn't have open auditions for major productions, or didn't have a well-supported vocal performance scene. He wanted an abundance of performance opportunities and didn't want to bump into a casting 'glass ceiling' or to be serenading an empty hall.</p>
<p>That's why visits are important, and why the parent can be so helpful in supporting the search, because you know your S/D well, and you've observed what turns them on or off - if they seem to be overlooking a factor that you know has been important to them during high school (e.g., a Jewish student organization on campus, a strong community service emphasis, whatever) you can point it out.</p>
<p>My D was very focused on what she wanted and why:</p>
<p>Specific programs: double major in music and science, with music at or near a conservatory level.</p>
<p>Challenging academics: On this board this is almost a given. Lots of students and parents become involved in CC because the kids have high stats and can succeed anywhere but the selectivity (and costs) of the elite schools is a problem. That was not the case for my D. Her stats were much more modest. No way would I ever what the level of challenge she has committed to. Be careful of what you wish for and consider a school with the right level of challenge. Don't overcommit and find yourself in a high stress situation. A reasonable level of stress and challenge provides the best opportunity for success, the ability to enjoy life and take advantage of electives and other opportunities.</p>
<p>Geographic. She wanted to be relatively close to home and friends, but far enough away that parents were not going to drop in on her world for the weekend. She wanted to be in or near a city. </p>
<p>Culture - drugs and alcohol. She uses neither and does not want to be around those who do. Mostly she did not want alcohol, drugs and impaired behavior and excessive noise in the dorm. For health reasons, she needs more sleep than many and wanted a quiet dorm with her own room. Basically, she wanted a school full of nerds with no or minimal Greek life.</p>
<p>Food - she wanted vegan and veggie options, good food and nutritious.</p>
<p>She was lucky enough to get everything she wanted, except for the food.</p>
<p>I agree with Marians first post ..it came in while I was writing my musings.</p>
<p>I am always fascinated by what people decide to focus on in a post. I never suggested that the institution should control these behaviors, just that hopefully the culture did not foster them. Pretty much what edad said above. </p>
<p>I dont really think the college should be so involved in controlling these behaviors. Not sure why you suggested that was my view</p>
<p>I am curious as to the reason for these fairly judgemental responses to my post?</p>
<p>i think two of the major "fit" parameters are 1. if the school has strong departments in areas your kid would ever consider majoring in and 2. size and location</p>
<p>for me it was important to go to a big school because i wanted to have a lot of choice -- not only meeting many different people, but i wanted the school to offer a great diversity of courses -- so if i'd ever want to take "middle eastern history" concurrently with "toxicology" and "tissue engineering", i could do it -- i also reasoned that going to a big school in an urban areas would mean that there will be more work positions available on and near campus -- geographical location was important for some students in my entering class, as I remember starting a school in california some of them complained of experiencing a "culture shock"</p>
<p>the first and foremost fit parameter of course should be preparation for future career -- does a school offer good educatioin in the major (does it have strong department in that field)? does it offer counseling for applying beyond bachelor's? are there many internships available near campus in your kids major or will he/she face a lot of competition with few openings available in that particular field? </p>
<p>"I am puzzled about how a college could discourage casual sex or unprotected sex"</p>
<p>colleges do things like offer free workshops on sex -- it is amazing how many kids did not have sex ed, or had it but it sucked, or had it and forgot it -- a lot of my sex ed actually happened on campus as my high school had a very short course on it taught by someone who i now know was not very qualified to instruct anyone on it</p>
<p>just like they do workshops for things like fining a job and preparing for professional schools, some campuses also offer workshops and even free counseling on sexual matters -- just reminding students that 1/5 people carries genital herpes which is a life-long disease, 1/13 carries papillomavirus (warts, cervical cancer), 1/200 has HIV, and 1/10 condoms break, is enough to some kids to play it safe -- they'd also tell you how much would a medical bill be if you're seeking treatment for herpes or HIV -- this persuades some more kids to play safe -- but some campuses engage in no such counseling so kids go through college totally misinformed -- i once read that nearly 60% of STD infections in United States happen to people 18-23 years of age</p>
<p>A substantial percentage of poor choices, including unprotected sex, results from alcohol abuse. Alcohol abuse cannot be eliminated but it can be controlled to a large extent. The first obvious step is to control underaged drinking on campus and in the dorms. It is also important to deal with out of control, drunken behavior. Sex and alcohol education are of limited value in an enironment where heavy drinking and drug abuse is tolerated.</p>
<p>I am interested in some of the responses especially what I think may be judgemental takes on my comments, but let us try and stay on the what makes a successful experience.</p>
<p>I do think the student can go a long way to having a good experience no matter where they go .... but what are these thing ......</p>
<p>I'm guilty of one of the judgmental responses, rty456. </p>
<p>For some reason, I assumed that you meant that the institution would control students' sexual behavior. I instantly thought back to my last two years in college. I was living in a dorm, but I had a boyfriend (a graduate student) who lived off-campus. I could not imagine how any college could have prevented me from being alone with him in his apartment without controlling my behavior so strictly that I would not have had the opportunity to grow up.</p>
<p>But if you were mainly referring to campus culture, that's a different issue.</p>
<p>rty: I agree with most of your comments. I am not sure what you expect in terms of spirituality. I would add that there is a spectrum between nurturing and challenging. Some LAC's provide a lot of personal attention. Most colleges and universities provide the academics and the challenges and the student is on their own in how to handle these. Many kids seem to have a hard time adapting, especially freshman year. I am not sure how much support and nurturing is appropriate. I guess it depends on the student.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The best college in the world can't provide fulfillment and happiness if your niece doesn't have the mindset to learn and expand her horizons. For that reason, I agree with Marian that preparing your niece to transition to college life is as important as which college she selects.
[/quote]
To me, this is the essential truth to "what makes a successful college experience." Due to Katrina, my S attended two very different schools this past year. He had a successful college experience at both. Bates didn't "fit" him at all - not the size, atmosphere or location of school he had targeted; didn't even have his major. But it was the right place for his fall Katrina semester for serendipitous reasons. He had great professors there, made friends, enjoyed himself greatly and performed well academically. He returned to Tulane for spring and lagniappe terms and truly loved his chosen "fit" college. He was disappointed in the professors he drew for several courses, actually, but he still did well academically and socially. He may have grown even more than the typical freshman in insight and wisdom due to his immersion in what has happened in New Orleans. Now, because Tulane is phasing out his major, he heads off to yet a third school next fall. I believe that he will have a successful experience (or not) based totally on his own attitude, his mindset to find there what he wants and needs, make the most of what it offers, find ways to adjust to things about it which might not be his ideal. Based on our experience this year (and sharing observations with other Tulane Engineering moms whose sons have had similar journeys), I think that as long as a school offers the academic program the student wants, s/he can have a successful experience. It's all based on how s/he thinks and behaves, not about what the school does or doesn't do.</p>