What is bad: Parent involvement in Children college search process or Lack of it

Applying to College
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<p>I agree with whoever said that the amount of parent involvement depends on the individual situation.</p>

<p>this is what I do for my son (oldest, so I am probably more involved than I will be for the youngest)</p>

<p>when I see events, lectures, groups, classes, etc in the community that I think might appeal to him -- I get the information and pass it on to him. I talk to many more people in the community than he does and I am on numerous community email lists and frequent places where these types of events are often posted -- so if I don't tell him about them, he wouldn't know. It is his decision whether to attend.</p>

<p>I do the same thing above for summer programs -- let him know of opportunities -- and he he decides whether he is interested. For summer program applications, I will fill out the FA paperwork, listen to him brainstorm for the essays and answer any questions. I also gently remind him of deadlines (he is getting better about that). I do not read the essays -- I just can't do it without trying to re-write them! I have him ask someone else to do this. I also remind him after the applications are sent to send thank-you notes to interviewers, people who wrote letters of rec, etc.</p>

<p>Classes -- I insist that he take math, science, english, foreign language and social studies each year. I have informed him of the general recommendations for entry into schools (our state flagship has the same requirements as the Ivies -- so no difference there) and he understands that a rigorous curriulum is important. After that, the decision is his. </p>

<p>Activities -- I let him know if I find out about something that he might enjoy. He pays, takes the bus to activities and does everything on his own. I do occasionally remind him to send a thank you if he was invited to a dinner or something.</p>

<p>Tests -- I pay (of course) and get him study prep material at the local library. Getting to the test, getting enough sleep, preparing for the test -- all up to him.</p>

<p>college applications -- i let him know what I have learned about how the system works and he gets to use that informations however he wants. I have a list of colleges that have been mentioned on CC for whatever reason that I think he might consider (things like good for a certain major, great internships, a certain professor, study abroad opportunities)</p>

<p>paying for college -- since he will need significant FA, that is my main focus. When finances impact college choice, I will point out the difficulty to him. I am not going to let him waste his time and effort applying to a school that will not give him enough aid to attend. If the choice were within our means to pay, we would. </p>

<p>I do agree with ParentofIvyHope -- I would not support my son in making a poor decision -- but that is only if the consequence was clearly severe. If he chooses to stay up late the night before the ACT, that is his choice (one he won't make again! I bet he gets to bed early on June 15th). If he chooses to IM friends instead of working on a paper -- his choice (went from a B+ to a B- in a college class that way -- again, probably won't do that again).</p>

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<p>but a "poor" decision is really relative, and what POIH sees as a "poor" decision wouldn't be a bad decision at all, we aren't talking about stealing, we are talking about some wonderful schools that some parents reject because of "lack of presitige"</p>

<p>I get the feeling that some parents have tunnel vision and see any decision that is not in line with prestige, or whatever, as being a poor decision</p>

<p>what that often does is force a child to make a choice that may not be a good fit and they will suffer for it, when it comes to college choice</p>

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<p>It's a matter of moderation. The parent should let their children make their own decisions, but only to a reasonable extent. It definitely depends on each individual case.</p>

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<p>My father gave me some rules at the start of middle school of what I should and shouldn't do. Other than that, I've done everything by myself. The only presence he has in my education, is him saying that it's important. There has never been a doubt in my mind that I was going to college, and then will go to graduate school.</p>

<p>I even paid for my own violin, and had to get scholarships for lessons. </p>

<p>It's fine when you're guiding your child, but it's when you start to push, when it really bugs me. You seem to push the choices of where to go to school on your child. Yeah, U of Chicago is probably not a great place for Pre Med, but no one can deny that it's a damn good school, and what if your daughter really enjoys it there more than say Harvard? If she's smart enough to get into both schools, I'd say that she has the ability to succeed at Chicago pre med if she really loved it there.</p>

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<p>Parents should be involved but not to the point where they make the decisions themselves. </p>

<p>For you to automatically assume that picking UChicago is a "foolish step" over an Ivy, is terrible. Do you realize how intellectually stimulating a school like Chicago is? Just because a school has a 40% acceptance rate (<em>gasp how terrible</em>) does not make it of a lower quality. </p>

<p>And there's no problem with getting a solid and well-rounded liberal arts education at a school like U of Chicago and then going on to med school. Actually, for med schools a 4.0 at Chicago, known for grade deflation, would probably look better than a 4.0 from Harvard, known for grade inflation.</p>

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<p>Between the two evils, lack of it is the greater evil.</p>

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<p>i kind of let my parents control and also not control the college search process..</p>

<p>i made a deal with my dad that i would apply to harvard early action (his dream school for me) and princeton and yale for regular (also his dream schools for me.) All the other schools i applied to i pretty much chose for myself, like berkeley, ucla, umich, uva, and upenn, all of which i got into.<br>
i really think it comes down to the fine line between great involvment and excess involvement. my dad came really close to becoming overly involved...he tried to contrl the whole process too much sometimes...but my mom supported me in any decision i made (for example, i applied to my state school virginia tech as a big safety, which my dad really hated) I think it's great for parents to be involved, but when it comes to the point when they are making all the decisions for their kid, it's come too far.</p>

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<p>Define "involvement," because that, it seems to me, is the issue.</p>

<p>One of my 2 kids is more independent, defensive, and somewhat suspicious of adult "involvement" in general -- about anything. (Teachers, adult friends, parents) But I do make it my business to become <em>informed</em>. That's the least responsibility I have. If she won't tell me stuff that I believe is important to the present or the future (to her safety, to her schedule, to her college choices), I locate legitimate ways of accessing such innocent information. Sometimes she even thinks she's told me something, & wants to have a discussion with me about knowledge she thinks I have, when I don't have the knowledge. That's another reason it's important for me to try to know what's going on in her life, generally.</p>

<p>I certainly support a parent's knowledge about a college list, at the very least. I support parents communicating with their kids about college possibilities: listening, offering <em>respectful</em> feedback where indicated. For example, if she's tentative about a college, I might ask her, 'What attracts you to that college'? That starts a conversation. I wouldn't ever say, "Why would you ever want to go to such a low-ranked college, according to USNWR," (or according to neighbor X, relative Y, or supposedly me). Let me tell you, there are at least 3 super-safeties for my D that I wish to high-heaven she would put on her list. LOL, they're probably not even <em>on</em> the USNWR list. So, I wasn't coy about it. I just put it out there. "I wish you'd look at _____,just as a safety, because you know and I know you can get in, & they have lots of programs for you & it's in a location that you say you love." What does that hurt? I'm not forcing her, & I won't nag her about it, but I have the responsibility to mention things like that. She may still choose to limit herself to high reaches. I've told her that's foolish. And if she does limit herself to reaches & "highly ranked" schools, and gets rejected from all of them, Guess what? She might end up at one of those 3 safeties anyway, because they have extended application periods.</p>

<p>I find that when I start a conversation, I learn, too. She's been able to give me rational reasons for not including certain colleges on her list (matches & safeties). In that way, I learn what's important to her comfort & why she thinks she would enjoy a particular college. They're not always choices I would make, but I'm not her. </p>

<p>All of us parents, even those of us who work quite a bit with young people & who advocate for them, have an adult perspective. We can't help it. We can't turn back the clock & pretend we haven't lived a few years. That also means that we can't help but be concerned, even anxious, about our children's futures sometimes. But one of the wonderful things about this country, including its higher education, are the multiple opportunities for recovering from mistakes or what seems to us now as "bad" choices of our own. You don't just get one shot. You may go to a great grad school if not an "elite" undergrad school. You may transfer from a less desirable to a more desirable college. You may go from a community college to UC Berkeley or a similar flagship. (Several of my scholarship finalists I interviewed last year had transferred from community college to UC.)You may interrupt graduate school to start a career, or vice versa. You may start to raise a family and return to school.</p>

<p>A 17 or 18 yr. old can only make a decision based on current personal knoweldge combined with however his imagination can project into the future. But the best decisions are those made from a position of comfort, calm, & openness -- which is more likely to happen if there's dialogue with adults rather than monologue by adults. </p>

<p>There is a great price to pay for choosing a college based on someone else's opinion or pressure, and not being happy there. We've seen many cases of this on CC, & I know a number in my own life. Generally, students perform best in the environment in which they are happiest or reasonably happy. That's the <em>practical</em> reason it's important for them to "own" their decision. It's still possible for them to decide wrongly about that, but they'll still feel so much better having made the decision themselves, than having regretted following someone else's decision which turned out to be negative for them.</p>

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<p>If I'm not mistaken Chicago has a fantastic, highly ranked med school. Shouldn't it stand to reason then that the very rigorous academic undergraduate program can be assumed to prepare students well enough for med school?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I'm stating that I withhold paying tuition if my daughter try to take foolish steps. For premed I don't think UC Chicago is better at pre Med than Harvard.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This really should be addressed. Could someone explain why UChicago would be bad at premed? Maybe because the culture is more intellectual than preprofessional? I'm curious. The way ParentofIvyHope put it seemed so controlling and offensive. If your daughter wanted to go to UChicago over Harvard, clearly she's not only thinking about prestige. There are many qualities that Harvard lacks, you know. Some people choose to go to other schools in spite of the Harvard name.
I actually know of a kid whose Asian father would not agree to pay tuition to Amherst (even though he applied ED!!) because it wasn't a name-brand school. His mom called Amherst and got him released from the ED contract. Presumably after much persuasion, he's going to matriculate to Amherst next fall.
Clearly that's going too far. Here's how an admissions officer (s/he was either from Yale or Bucknell...) put it at one info session. Before January, parents should be extremely supportive and offer all kinds of input but not go so far as to edit the kid out of the essays and so on. After March, the parent should back off and let the student make the decision. POIH, if you're so against Chicago over Harvard, you should just not let your daughter apply to Chicago.</p>

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<p>Depends, list some of the things you do for your child. Maybe then we can get a better assessment. After reading the posts here, epipheny had the strongest point. Definately concur with her.</p>

<p>Anyways, lets see your daughter on this thread. That will propell this to the hall of fame or something hahah.</p>

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<p>I really like ephiphany's way of putting it -- it is like a conversation. </p>

<p>I also think it important to know when we need to be more involved and when we need to step back. for me, the essays are the sticking point. When my son wrote essays for competitive summer programs last year, I just could not offer constructive criticism -- I could see a much better way of saying something and any correction I made just made the essay mine, not his. So we learned that essays are an area that I don't step in.</p>

<p>Grades are another issue -- he is in an extremely academic program right now and he has a few B's. I just casually mentioned that I hoped he spent some free time he had studying because those grades are so important -- he lost it. He told me that he was fully aware of how important grades are and that he would be the one to reap the consequences. He also told me that even my occassional, gentle reminders really upset him if he isn't getting a top grade. he has very high expectations of himself and I was making it worse -- so we have a new plan. Unless he specifically asks me for information, I may not mention grades. </p>

<p>Parental involvement is a work in progress!</p>

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<p>My parents were not involved in my college process at all. In high school they didn't push me at all. I took what I wanted, and did what I wanted. I started off high school kind of shakey, but straightened myself with out them. They just expected me to do well and go on and become a doctor without them putting in any work. They didn't even encourage me to study for the SAT, and at that point I had no idea how important they were. The result: I took them once when I was 16 with out studying and got a mediocre score (well it was actually good, but not top 25 good). These scores ended up sticking because I graduated early, and these were the only scores from high school I had. I also had a 3.0 GPA, and I hardly did my homework (I was a huge slacker). My parents cared, but they didn't do anything. My mom let me stay at home when I wanted, and I accumulated a lot of absences.</p>

<p>My parents are immigrants who do not know the first thing about college admissions, even though they both have graduate degrees from here. When I actually did start doing really well in school, they started to really push the becoming a doctor thing. Now they wanted to become so involved in my school work, but it was too late now. Even though I love my parents, they are infuriating. I feel like this whole becoming a doctor thing is their way of living through my accomplishments. To the OP, you should be proud that your daughter got into two great schools. I would suggest checking your motives; are they in her best interests or your own, because she will probably be a very successful doctor at either school. I hope its not something trivial like you being able to say that my child went to an ivy league school.</p>

<p>Anyway to answer your question, I think it was a good thing for me. It gave me the freedom to do a lot of different things. I hung out with a lot of different people, and joined a lot of different clubs. I made A LOT of mistakes that I learned a lot from. I didn't graduate the top of my class (or probably in the top 25%), and went to a community college for a year. In the end it didn't really matter, because I got into a great university anyway (UVA). Since I had so much freedom I was able to chose my own path. I graduated early, and got my associates degree in a year. While meeting all sorts of new people from all walks of life, and getting experience as a tutor (which I found out is something I love doing). Now I am going to be going to the same school (as a junior, while they are freshman) that all the kids at my school slaved over to get into. In the process I was able to do a lot of growing outside of high school, while those kids who are forced to study 24/7 didn't.</p>

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<p>My mom helped me with all of the administrative stuff...sending out my applications, driving me to different colleges, etc. The college research I did all by myself, and the decisions that I made throughout the process were all mine. Funny thing though is that high school teachers/counselors have the impression that my parents are constantly "pushing me" to do everything...maybe it's because of the Asian parent stereotype?? O_O </p>

<p>I do wish that my parents had connections...haha obviously that would definately benefit me greatly! XD That's the only way that I wish my parents could have involved themselves more in the college process...but it's too bad that I'm a first generation student! XD</p>

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<p>You all need to get off of ParentofIvyHope's back. I'm going to guess from this person's english that they are foreign and not familiar with certain things that are taboo in American culture such as saying that choosing UChicago over Harvard is foolish or letting people know that you have preferences where your child goes to college. BoredTeenager, you come off far more obnoxious than ParentIvy. Yahoo for you that both your parents went to Princeton. They are probably more familiar with the college process and don't have to poke around for answers on CC. My parents went to state school and had no idea what it took to get into an elite school. Whenever me or my mom tried to ask questions of a counselor about what colleges wanted to see, we often got some completely unhelpful answer about how it's not important what colleges wanted and that I would get into a school matched to me if I just did what I wanted.</p>

<p>A parent being involved in the application process is not the same thing as them being involved in their homework or essay process. If ParentIvy's kid goes to a private boarding school, there's a good chance his/her kid is a lot more independent anyway than your average high school kid. That said, ParentIvy, you need to be careful about emphasizing the prestige of the school too much. You are right that it's better going to Harvard than University of Chicago for premed. However, the decisions AdComms make are often confusing--the elite places often pass over the most dilligent students for those that have achieved less in the classroom. So make sure that she doesn't get her hopes up. Also, I don't know if you were serious about withholding tuition, but it's a really bad idea. If she really likes a school, she may do better there than the more prestigious school just because she enjoys being there. In that case, she may have a better chance of getting in. Just advise her that her chances would be better at the better college and let her make the choice.</p>

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<h2>ramses: "If I'm not mistaken Chicago has a fantastic, highly ranked med school. Shouldn't it stand to reason then that the very rigorous academic undergraduate program can be assumed to prepare students well enough for med school?"</h2>

<p>The pre-med education at University of Chicago is second-to-none. I'd say it is better than Harvard, actually. However, for getting into med school with the same GPA/scores it's probably better to have the Harvard degree.</p>

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<p>Thanks Collegealum314: I think communication is an issue because I'm not a native english speaker.
True: I'm not aware of the college process and I've only one child, so there are lot more questions than I get answer from the prep school my daughter goes too.</p>

<p>So this forum seems to be a good way to get information.</p>

<p>My daughter also informed me that I come out to be more pushy thru my posts than I really am. Which she informed that many teachers at her also felt.</p>

<p>This might be more of a communication thing than a reality.</p>

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<p>being pushy is a perception, of course, so there is no "reality"- if people think a person is, then that person needs to look at how the are coming across</p>

<p>It may be time to look at how one comes across, because teachers, admissions people, etc don't like pushy, and even if you aren't if they think you are, that is enough...pushy is an attitude...so no matter if you would really boss someone around, etc., if they think you will, you already are</p>

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<p>
[quote]
BoredTeenager, you come off far more obnoxious than ParentIvy. Yahoo for you that both your parents went to Princeton

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Did you read her post before? She basically asked if I "go to school" and claimed my parents aren't quite "involved" in my life and it wasn't "upto par". I was insulted and gave her an example of how much "better" they were compared to her "pushy" self.</p>

<p>I was actually the first person to ask people to stop poking fun at ParentOfIvyHope's English if you didn't know.</p>

<p>Geez</p>

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<p>bt, i didn't think you were pushy...</p>