<p>What about that whatshisname Mormon who painted some students red and shaved their heads? Prank or dog?</p>
<p>This thread is living proof of why college tour guides almost always say something like the following: “We have an active Greek life on campus, and they are very involved with a lot of campus activities. However, there are plenty of students who aren’t Greek and we have so many other organizations on campus, so if Greek life doesn’t interest you, you’ll find lots of things to do.” The topic is so polarizing that guides have been instructed to appeal to everyone.</p>
<p>I, too, went to college having no idea that “Greek” meant anything other than people from Greece. I left college with a negative impression of the whole system, with the exception of 1) one fraternity that was made up of decent, ethnically and religiously diverse, achievement-oriented guys who respected women, made sure they didn’t disturb the neighbors, and didn’t drink heavily (they wouldn’t have dared kill any brain cells), and 2) a number of sorority women who steered clear of fraternity parties and would have scoffed at the idea of being anyone’s “little sister”. </p>
<p>redpoint – I’m with you on your general outlook about Greek life, and I think you’d have agreed with me on these two exceptions.</p>
<p>No, red point. You’re not getting it! I was shy, and introverted, and the system is set up to accommodate that!</p>
<p>Look, as a freshman, if I had just left myself to my own devices, I would have made friends only with people in my hall. I would have gone to a party and just stood there, not comfortable in a big crowd. It wouldn’t have come naturally to me to enter a big room and make new friends.</p>
<p>In going through rush, while the “party” is big, for any given girl, it’s really a conversation with 2-3 other girls in small groups. And they are making efforts to get to know you – they ensure that the girl from your hometown stops by because maybe there’s a connection there–or the fellow physics major or tennis player or whatever – which is precisely what a shy or more introverted person needs. It’s not a free for all in which shy or quiet girls get lost. Trust me on this one. </p>
<p>You have a very stereotypical and untrue view of the process. You so want to believe it’s “ewwww, she’s not a 10, and her shoes were so ugly and her dad is a janitor, ewwww!” it’s what you want to believe, but in truth it’s just a structured way to meet people and mutually decide if you want to continue getting to know one another. Just like what happens in dining halls and campus centers and classrooms.</p>
<p>Red point - I mixed it up with a WIDER variety of people precisely because I was Greek. I had theater friends (my school is a big theater school) I wouldn’t have had otherwise. Journalism friends. Engineering friends. Girls of all different backgrounds. Wider than what I would have encountered in my dorm floor.</p>
<p>MizzBee: " I dont want friends that are clones, but I also don’t want awkward pauses where you can hear crickets chirping. People who do well in social recruitment are social"</p>
<p>I was inspired to write what I wrote about non-social butterflies by MizzBee. I am happy to see that Pizza and MizzBee are disputing and elaborating on the statement above.</p>
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<p>Oftentimes, these moments could be mere preludes to a more intense lively conversation where the individual pausing is carefully considering his/her words before continuing the conversation. </p>
<p>Even though I tend toward the extroverted side of the spectrum, those pauses are moments I’ve learned to value as a sign someone is taking our conversation, topic, and me serious enough to give some valuable thought rather than continuing to speak what comes first in his/her mind. When it is done this way, conversations often get deeper and topics/thoughts explored in much greater depth than they would otherwise, and the results end up being a great illuminating learning experience.</p>
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<p>Please acknowledge that here on CC, the criticisms only go in one direction, hence the constant need to explain and defend. If you know of any posts criticizing your child’s status as a non-Greek member, and ascribing characteristics to him due to that status, I am interested to read them.</p>
<p>From Bay:
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<p>Unfortunately, this statement is so true.</p>
<p>OP here. I did enjoy a nice Siraz while continuing to read MizzBee’s links. </p>
<p>It seems to this outsider that the Greek system is part social, part practical, sometimes selective, sometimes open. It provides a sense of community, loyalty and a safe haven. It involves ceremony, tradition, a system of common goals and beliefs customized or specialized by each house. Some of these traditions and ceremonies are to be kept secret from outsiders. If one is a member of XYZ, then one will be welcomed at any XYZ location and the general feeling will be one of familiarity and belonging. Members support and encourage each other and this is facilitated by the fact that joining implies agreeing with a common held set of ‘something’. It is a life style/choice that is often passed on from parent to child.</p>
<p>If the above is correct, then what it brings to my mind is …gulp, dare I I go there…religious organizations. Some have an aversion to joining such organizations, some find it a very positive part of their life.
And, maybe it is such an emotional raised because those who find the system very supportive and beneficial feel like their deeply held beliefs and experiences are being attacked. </p>
<p>****disclaimer…this is not to disparage the Greek system or religious organizations. (nor to imply that either is good or bad…nor is it to imply that one who joins is superior (or inferior) to one who chooses not to join, nor to imply that I personally am making a judgment about anyone who choose too, or chooses not to join as the case may be, or not be.:eek:</p>
<p>Dietz,
I agree with your assessment and do not find it offensive, even as someone who eschews religion.</p>
<p>Bravo for reading all the links, I am sure it took more than one glass to cover those. </p>
<p>I don’t disagree wtih you about the analogy, and I am not a member of an organized religion. </p>
<p>cobrat, I am not talking about thoughtful pauses, but rather the breaks in a conversation when the chemistry is not there, or when you are on a blind date and you can’t think of a single thing to say that will bring you common ground. If only one person is asking questions or contributing to a conversation it feels more like an interrogation. If a PNM is struggling with answers to questions like, “So how are you enjoying your classes this semester? So you were in Key Club in high school, what sort of projects did you do as a group?”, then some can take it that she is bored, rude or at least indifferent.</p>
<p>Here’s one more analogous organization – the Junior League (which many people feel strongly about, positively or negatively) – and which also suffers from outdated stereotypes from people who may never have experienced the League as a member. When I joined, I met many women I never would have met before (either their kids were older than mine or younger, or they were at home raising a family). I made life long friends. To this day, if I met someone who was in the Junior League (even if they were not in my chapter) I would feel instantly comfortable with them (thus my poorly chosen “insta-friend” comment earlier). I believe (correct me if I’m wrong) that women who belong to sororities have that same experience when they meet someone who was in their sorority. You’re not best buddies off the bat, but you feel comfortable with that person and it’s easy to talk to them. </p>
<p>So when I hear someone deride the Junior League as a bunch of hairband wearing preppy Stepford wives, I point out that the Junior League makes a positive impact on the lives of women and children in their community. And I think sororities and fraternities suffer from the same stereotypes, and if we all were open minded about the pros and cons of these organizations, it would be a good thing.</p>
<p>“Was shy, introverted”. The two are entirely different things. I can see how a shy person would like the backup of a group while the introverted person likely has no use for the group activities and couldn’t care less about them. People often mistake introversion for shyness, huge difference.</p>
<p>The Greek sysystem is exclusionary- you’re in or out. Great if you’re in or don’t want to be in. Terrible for those who want to be in but don’t get chosen. Where Greek life has a strong influence on campus social life this matters. Students who want to participate can’t because they don’t belong to the club. Country clubs for the college set (remember a country club doesn’t need to be rich, parameters can vary). This is why the Greek system on a given campus needs to be considered when applying to colleges.</p>
<p>I am a proponent of Greek systems which promise a bid for every woman who completes the prescribed path during recruitment. It makes sense that all Greeks would support this type of system. My understanding of why it does not happen at every college (and MizzBee probably knows more), is that either there are some houses that cannot meet their quota (because some PNMs refuse to pledge there), so there is still space available, or because the colleges themselves prohibit adding more chapters. </p>
<p>If I am correct, then the animosity over exclusion should be aimed at the culprits: either the colleges or the women who go through recruitment but refuse to associate with certain houses.</p>
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<p>Not at S’s school. All students are welcome at all house social events, affiliated or not. Unaffiliated students also hang out with their affiliated friends at their houses. The scene is unusually open, which is one reason why many people pledge there who would never consider going Greek at an SEC school or the like.</p>
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<p>Do you hear those proverbial crickets chirping?</p>
<p>Bay & MizzBee…out of curiosity…since you’re both supportive of the Greek system and also mentioned either eschewing or not associating with a religious system…does the Greek system tend to attract more ‘non-religious’ people? I could see - for example Catholic students - finding a connection thru the Newman organization on campus…and finding their desired support and commonality. Do you think one type of personality (religious affiliated vs non affiliation) is more or less attracted to the Greek life?</p>
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<p>Not necessarily. There are introverts who find certain group activities…including fraternities/sororities as something they’d be interested in taking park.</p>
<p>Moreover, there are also extroverts…such as ENTJ me…who have no use for certain group activities due to culture/worldview clashes or the possibility that joining such groups would be nothing…but a huge waste of my time, possibly money, and a distraction from other more interesting group activities/experiences.</p>
<p>“Please acknowledge that here on CC, the criticisms only go in one direction, hence the constant need to explain and defend. If you know of any posts criticizing your child’s status as a non-Greek member, and ascribing characteristics to him due to that status, I am interested to read them.”</p>
<p>Cricket chirping here: that’s because we are talking about Greek life, not the set of all things everything else. If you want to criticize everything else, start a thread.</p>
<p>^^^^^^How is this thread remotely different from the other thread? What was the purpose of this thread and what has been said here that wasn’t said over and over in the other thread? It’s a circular argument.</p>
<p>Re: Religion, I think most fraterntiy and sorority members do believe in religion. A few organizations mention God or faith in their mottos, and most of the organizations were founded at a time when more people in higher education were religious. </p>
<p>Now as for individual chapters, religious membership will vary.</p>
<p>If any of you have glanced over at the other message board that was referenced before, there was a different thread recently about religion and Greek life that explained the issue. It also appears that it is a polarizing issue as well (as you can expect).</p>