<p>My quick answer is “no.” I don’t think religiosity has anything to do with attraction to Greek life, other than whether the typical profile of women who enjoy each others’ company tends to include a religious bent? Not that I know of, or experienced.</p>
<p>I liked the analogy upstream to the Junior League. I was in a sorority, in the Junior League, in a book group and in a cooking club. If your D is the type who would enjoy that type of close female camaraderie, then she should check out sororities, as they offer the opportunity to find (more easily) a niche of good friends who share her interests and outlook on life.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info Bay and MizzBee…D is in what is becoming a more and more unusual college environment…the gender distribution is about 40/60 female to male. She is finding a gaggle of male friends and a somewhat smaller gaggle of female friends.</p>
<p>I also recently joined a book club…and as long as the suggested reading doesn’t tread too deeply into politics or religion we have the most enjoyable monthly soirees. If the topic does venture into the danger zone…well…then I always hope the book is a somewhat smaller and preferably paperback format since tempers flare and gentility may be at risk. And, I bank on the belief that no one is willing to risk the health of their Kindle or iPad to make a point. Real life and electronic life are just not that different. ;)</p>
<p>Anyway, I think I have a much better balanced understanding of the ‘whole Greek Thing’</p>
<p>Not me. I am quite aware of the distinction. I was shy and introverted. I am no longer shy at all, and can be quite outgoing and “work a room” or party or a big crowd, but I’m still introverted - I draw my strength from being by myself. In any case, though, being introverted just meant I didn’t go to every single darn party or social event I could have gone to. It didn’t mean that there wasn’t value in, or that I didn’t enjoy, the ones I did go to. Anyway, there is often benefit in going outside one’s comfort zone. Being in a sorority helped me do that, since there were socialization events all around - if I had just stayed in a dorm, my circle would have been much narrower. I don’t understand how some of you can’t see how a Greek system could be expansionary for someone who tends to keep to themselves and needs a healthy dose of other people around them to stay balanced. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Sure. But could we please stop equating the uber-competitive systems where there are arbitrary limits and lots of people get rejected, with the more reasonable and humane systems in which basically everyone who wants to be in a house can get in one, as long as they keep an open mind along the way?</p>
<p>I think some of you vastly overstate the importance of the “secret traditions.” They really aren’t that big of a deal, in my experience. A few words said here and there during initiation, a few special symbols. It’s not the Da Vinci Code. As for “familiarity and belonging,” if I were to meet someone who was in the same sorority (but in a different school), it would be much the same feeling as if I met someone who went to the same university (but at a different time). Oh, cool, we have something in common. That wouldn’t make us immediate bonded BFF’s, though.</p>
<p>^“if I were to meet someone who was in the same sorority (but in a different school), it would be much the same feeling as if I met someone who went to the same university (but at a different time). Oh, cool, we have something in common.”</p>
<p>Right – it’s like you have a mutual friend (the sorority, the Junior League) – it eases your way to getting to know each other.</p>
<p>I didn’t join a sorority because Smith didn’t have them, but the house system bears some similarities – after freshman year, you can select which house you live in. Some are more social than others. They each have their own personality. Your house is where you make your closest friendships (probably because you’re living with these women 24/7). To this day, when I meet someone who went to Smith, our first question is: what house were you in?</p>
<p>I did not know there was such a controversy surrounding “Greek Life”. I am trying to help son decide which colleges to apply. How does one find out which colleges have and do not have “Greek Life”? Or do all colleges in the USA have frats?</p>
<p>Does anyone have statistics on how racially and religiously integrated are fraternities and sororities? Thanks for help.</p>
<p>Perazziman, you are asking us to answer in generalities about something that differs from campus to campus and chapter to chapter. Greek life is extremely different from campus to campus. As to the question on “how racially and religiously integrated are fraternities and sororities” - there are undoubtedly Southern-belle sorority chapters that would never let a black face darken their doorstep, and there are plenty of sorority chapters where the girls are all different racial and religious backgrounds and no one thinks twice about it. There are also black-specific Greek systems. And there are other systems that were historically based on a certain religion (such as historically Jewish houses) - however, the extent to which those houses are truly all-Jewish versus diverse differs dramatically from campus to campus, so no one generalization is going to be relevant. Make your selection for your son based on other factors - and then look at Greek life down the line. It’s not important enough to be a deciding factor at this stage in the game.</p>
<p>^Perazziman, in addition to checking out the advice on the thread about how to look at Greek life, once you make your list of schools on other factors, check out the student life pages re: campus organizations. Serach under Greek Life. You will generally find pages. As for racial and ethnic diversity, you can also generally find chapter pages that will give you an idea on that campus.</p>
<p>I was hoping there would be Greek Life demographics for diversity on both college to college and national level. The same way that we can get demographics for diversity on universities. You make it sound to me like there are many multiracial chapters of, for example, DKE (the frat described in the story). Do you mean that DKE frats reflect diversity that exists on campus? For example, would there be an all black DKE in a black college? Or am I misunderstanding your point? thanks.</p>
<p>I don’t know anything about DKE specifically, but yes, there could potentially be a chapter on some campus that isn’t diverse at all, and a chapter on another campus that is extremely diverse. The fraternity that my H belonged to and my S has joined is historically Jewish, but the extent to which the membership is Jewish varies considerably from campus to campus. Whether that is good or bad depends on what you want. Just to use that example, some Jewish students might want to join an explicitly Jewish fraternity the way they join, say, Hillel. Other Jewish students might want to join more diverse fraternities. Sometimes a fraternity could be mostly-Jewish because the social milieu is such that Jewish kids would feel out of place elsewhere; other times, it’s mostly-Jewish just because that’s how it originated but it doesn’t reflect a lack of welcoming on the part of the other houses. You just cannot answer this question in the absolute.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, I have no problem with students belonging to Greek Life. This is why I said, I did not know it was so controversial. I can understand why you may want your child to belong to it. However, I also do not feel that students at colleges have some fundamental right to Greek Life. I would like people to have choices, between colleges that have strong Greek Life to no Greek Life and everything in between. Therefore I do not agree with you that parents and students should not inquire about the role Greek Life on campus, before selecting a school. As a parent, I would like to know the statistics on how many students are members of Greek Life and what is the ethnic breakup of the membership in these houses, on a college by college basis. Colleges provide a lot of information on diversity for a reason. As parents we need to make sure we understand what those numbers mean.</p>
<p>As far as membership to historically Jewish fraternities is concerned, personally they are not a concern to me, unless son was planning on attending a Jewish university. In which case, if the majority (eg. 70%) of the student body was Jewish and 90% of them were members of a frat that was 95%+ Jewish, then it would be a concern. This is one of the reasons son is considering applying to Brandeis, which does not have fraternities, but we hope still has a certain Jewish flavor and allows kids from different faiths to socialize with each other.</p>
<p>Actually, I was fine with my children joining / not joining. My D attends a school with no Greek life; my S attends a school with Greek life that I know pretty well, since it’s where H and I went. We encouraged him to give it a shot, and were pleasantly surprised when he chose the house H had been in, but if he hadn’t, well, then, so be it - it’s his experience, not ours. I would not have chosen or eliminated a school based on the presence of Greek life, unless it were one of those unpleasantly wound-up schools that are highly competitive about Greek life - but frankly I would find those schools unappealing for a multitude of reasons. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Aside from a school that is designed specifically for members of a certain religious faith, what schools are there where kids from different faiths aren’t “allowed to socialize with one another”? I think you’re thinking that going Greek means - can’t talk to that guy you sit next to in math class since he’s not in your house. It means nothing of the sort.</p>
<p>That’s where you said it. She quoted you. It does seem to indicate that you think students aren’t encouraged to socialize outside of their houses. Perhaps that isn’t what you meant.</p>
<p>Regarding the information you want about diversity, I think it would be hard to get, largely because the composition of houses tends to change over time. Yes, there ARE some fraternities and sororities that were established as black or Jewish back when it was common for national organizations to be segregated by race or religion. At my son’s school, many, if not all, of the fraternities that are part of national organizations withdrew in the 1960s in protest of such policies, and admitted members as they saw fit. Some then rejoined the national group after the national group repudiated segregationist policies. My son’s house is, I would guess, about 50% persons of color at the moment. I think that religious background runs the gamut, including religions you might not have thought of. I know that there is at least one Sikh, for example. There is also Hillel, and there is actually housing set aside for those who wish to be observant of are interested in exploring it. You don’t even have to be Jewish. :)</p>
<p>Quote from perazziman:
“This is one of the reasons son is considering applying to Brandeis, which does not have fraternities, but we hope still has a certain Jewish flavor and allows kids from different faiths to socialize with each other.”</p>
<p>The construction of this sentence makes it quite clear (to me anyway) that the poster means that the opportunity is readily available and fluid for kids from different backgrounds to socialize without perceived limitations by religious or other affiliation. There is no implication of being “allowed” as in needing permission from some specific party or even social custom. I take poster to mean “allows” in an openly positive sense.</p>
<p>allows for and allowed to are completely different thing</p>
<hr>
<p>I will edit this in response to cross-post: If we all understand that perazziman was intending the above usage of “allows” to mean “enables” or “provides the opportunity” why go to such trouble to misread the intent and create controversy where none existed?</p>
<p>Like just about every other thread on Greek life, this one seems to imagine that “Greek Life” is just one thing when clearly, it isn’t. It varies from campus to campus, from house to house on each campus, and over time in each house. There seem to be pretty big differences between fraternity life and sorority life on many campuses. There are regional differences. And it seems to me that on just about any scale of values, particular houses can range from wonderful to horrible. Add to this the fact that people simply have different attitudes toward some of the issues involved with Greek Life (such as drinking, exclusivity, hazing, secrecy, conformity, and more), and we’re really talking past each other a lot of the time. </p>
<p>So, for example, if at campus X, getting into a sorority seems to require being rich and well-connected, with a fancy wardrobe and good looks, don’t be surprised if others think that those sorority girls are “buying friends.” That’s how it looks to them. A sorority at another college–or even at the same college–may not be like that at all. (Note that the “buying friends” comments seem to come from girls, not boys.)</p>
<p>There are also great networking opportunities. I know there are always offers from former sorority members letting the current members know that their company is looking for interns or entry level positions and would love another xyz sorority person since they have had luck with the previous house members working there. </p>
<p>I think each school is different, each sorority is different and each kid is different. You just have to trust them to figure out if it is for them or not. Both of my kids joined and couldn’t be happier. I never would have thought either of them would want to join and neither of them expressed an interest in Greek Life before going to school.</p>
<p>Within their schools there were houses that they never would consider joining and others where the would be glad to join. The students can tell if a place would be a good fit for them or not.</p>
<p>Precisely saintfan, thank you. Not only was it incorrectly paraphrased, but then the paraphrasing was inserted into quotation marks, to suggest they were my words.</p>