There is test optional admission at some schools, but that doesn’t mean it would be affordable even if a reach school admits him.
They most likely only give need based aid.
And it sounds like your budget is $15,000 a year from the 529, his $5,000 student loan and what he could earn in the summer.
So the difficulty lies in finding a school that has the program/major and gives him enough merit to be able to afford it.
And chances are, those schools aren’t going to be any better academically than the free tuition one.
And the program sounds great at that one, with the option of the MArch.
So his options might come down.to commuting to community college and then transferring to 4 yr school like Cincy or other like someone else suggested, or going straight to the program at the free tuition school.
It’s not an easy process to navigate, especially with another child to consider.
I would have him send out some apps to schools you know will be affordable so he has choices other than the state school he doesn’t like and schools you can’t afford. Have you looked at the SUNY schools? They’re very good colleges and only cost ~$30k/year for OOS students.
This is a “what would you do” thread so…
My talk with my son would sound like this…Son, you under performed your abilities in HS. Apply where your want but if they don’t give you enough merit money to bring us down to a cost of X then you’re going to have to go to the school where we get free tuition. After all - That’s one of the reasons why I work there.
Do very well and if you hate it after two years, apply elsewhere as a transfer. We can use the money we saved on tuition to help you pay for that school. Apply to the honors program at state. If you don’t get in, that doesn’t mean you can’t surround yourself with smart people.
OP- I love Shawshank Redemption, and I totally get where you are coming from with your analogy, but with all due respect- if this is your mindset right now, you are in for a very tough senior year, potentially a depressing summer, and possibly a rocky freshman year regardless of where your son ends up.
Why? Because there IS no perfect college, there is no Santa Claus, there is no tooth fairy. You are all setting yourselves up for some serious disappointment/buyer’s remorse.
Let’s say your son DOES get into Cornell, you can swing the finances with some generous need based aid and your son borrowing the federal max and you guys borrowing a hefty (but not killer amount). The first gray day- it’s cold, your son has four tests/exams/projects/papers due, he’s got a cold, he didn’t get into the a cappella group he tried out for (or theatrical performance, debate team, whatever his particular interest is), a girl he asked out said no, and his roommate stays up all night playing video games so your kid is sleep deprived as well.
He says “ugh. I’m in debt for this? I feel like %^&*, I am in over my head academically (everyone at Cornell feels that way Freshman year), I have no friends, what am I doing here?” Just then you call to tell him that the dog has an infection and the vet says it’s serious… and boom- you get a truckload of why his life stinks and he hates Ithaca. And then YOU have to get off the phone and contemplate your loans and his misery AND deal with a sick dog.
Don’t even give off a WHIFF that you think going to one of his safety schools is akin to prison. Don’t even SUGGEST that there is light at the end of the tunnel in terms of getting into a college which you might not be able to afford but for that- would be nirvana. And don’t allow yourself the fantasy that “good parents” can fund every single thing their kid wants.
You are on a family quest to maximize your children’s (plural) educational opportunities given the constraints at hand and given the incredible opportunities that are in front of them. And you are going to help them make a solid decision. Maybe not the shiniest object, but a solid decision, and you have every bit of confidence in him that he’s going to take advantage of every opportunity that comes his way no matter where he goes.
Prison? Parole? Last chance/last hope??? Don’t even go there. This is poison.
I have friends who are both alums of one of the HYP schools. Active volunteers. Generous donors (but not mega donors, and not of the “named chair in neuroscience” ilk). Their kid who was deferred in the early round, then rejected in the regular round is now in his 30’s and is STILL trying to compensate for having gone to “another college”. Your son needs to embrace wherever he goes, and with the mindset that he’s going to get a fantastic education and then launch his grown up life.
OP - I hear you saying that your son is more than his scores and a standout. He probably enjoys being a standout at his current school. Ask him whether he’d rather be a top student at an average university or an average student at a top university? I know there’s been some research in this area that has shown that the top students are successful wherever they go. As a “standout” at the state school, he’s more likely to get the interviews and the glowing LORs for them. He should probably factor that into his decision.
Please read and then re-read what @Blossom has posted. I find your last post more than a bit scary, it reeks of delusion (your words, not mine lol). The road you are travelling can lead no where good. You need to start thinking globally. And, instead of thinking 12% get accepted, start thinking 88% get rejected…is my kid really part of that 12%? I’m all for throwing out one or two lottery apps if you can afford it, but go in assuming they will be an outright rejection. I allowed my D to ED to a “lottery” school because who really knows? But I would have bet a paycheck on the rejection, not an acceptance. And sometimes, although we assure ourselves that our kids are comparable students, the stress with trying to keep up might just take the fun quota out of the experience. Three years in I’m happy D didn’t get into her “lottery” school. She’s much better as the big fish in a small pond than the alternative.
Another thing to think about is that this is your first child to go through the college process, which is so different from what we all went through years ago. We all thought our kids were that special “snowflake” until we went through this process. Now we know that there are a ton of kids out there that are just like our kids. The competiton is fierce. It takes going through the process to totally understand this. I am now starting with my second child, so I totally get it. Good luck.
My older daughter had 4.0+ GPA and close to 1500 SAT. She was WL at Cornell and later admitted after a lot of work. She didn’t get into any of her reach schools, only her match schools, and we were full pay. There is no Santa Claus when it comes to admission. For all the years I have been on CC, I have rarely seen anyone being admitted to schools where they didn’t have stats for, only disappointments.
For D2 we took a more proactive and realistic approach and the result was a lot better. She is now applying to law schools, and money is going to be a factor. She is older, but like other young adults, she is still starry eyed about those top 3 schools, but if she is offered money to practically go for free at other lower tier schools then she is going to have to take it into consideration. Life is not perfect. It is always about compromise and that’s something we could teach our children.
How about taking the ACT. My daughter took the SAT a couple of times because she thought it was the right test for her. She basically got the same scores your son has. Her school counselor suggested the ACT instead. She took it twice and it made a BIG difference to the point that she would be considered for Merit Scholarships at many schools
We also think she is exceptional. However, the reality is that based on scores and gpa alone which in many cases is the ONLY thing some of these schools will look at, she might not be as exceptional as thousands of other kids…By the end of the day, this is the only thing that might matter through this process of admissions. This is the reality.
She applied to 8 schools knowing that financials will dictate the final decision. It will not be the only factor, but there is no way we are taking loans. An undergraduate degree is not worth $120K in loans, If you can not afford it, then do not do it. Part of going to college is not all about academics (most important) it also about growing up and having different experiences. There are so many exceptional opportunities out there and every school is full of them. These kids do not even know it. They live in their bubble.
In our house debt free or as close to debt free as possible is the only option. I will not take out parent loans and I will not co-sign student loans. If my kid wants to use their federal loans, that is their option but not one we encourage.
I won’t enable loans because I refuse to saddle my kid with debt that at 18/19 years of age they cannot comprehend and due to DH’s age and disability, I will not take on debt for the kids education for ourselves that we cannot reasonably absorb as I would, one day like to retire.
DD has received close to a full ride, we will pay for her dining plan as well as transport to and from for summers/Christmas, she will pay books and fee’s and her grandparent will help out with pocket money. Is it her first choice school? Nope, but its the offer that is the one to beat. Her first choice school even after generous merit is in the $150K range for a mediocre LOC - that IMO is just insane.
She can take her federal loans if she chooses for Study abroad or another school but the bottom line is that what we will pay for the dining and what she can take in a Federal loan is her budget which doesn’t leave a lot of options. However, DD has a 4.765 GPA and a 34 on her ACT, she needs to go after merit.
If I were in your shoes, my kid would be attending the school with the waiver unless they got a comparable offer somewhere else. Not so funny story, one of my BFF’s is the head of prospective students for a State University. Every year she has to deal with faculty that is shocked to learn their kids lied to them about applying so they could use the waivers. In the kids minds, “if I don’t apply, they can’t make me go and I can go to the dream school”
Moral of the story, make sure your kid actually applies to your school with the waiver!
I think kids need to get over this mentality of the “experience” is somehow more important than just getting an education. A bachelors degree is now common, kids are going to need advanced degrees in many subjects if they really want to go after the big money or positions - why saddle them with debt for undergrad - go cheap and then spend the money on grad school where it actually may matter
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/2029362-college-debt.html#latest
Good posts on this thread. College Debt.
You are also in a tough spot, because you live in PA. Even the state supported schools (PASSHE) cost close to
$25,000 by now, and might not have his major. Pitt and Penn State are at least $30,000.
I assume you can only get full tuition at the school system that your H works at in Ohio, otherwise there might be more options. Ohio has many public schools that might give merit, but you would be paying OOS tuition.
Like I said, in addition to KSU and Cincinnati I would apply to IUP honors and Chatham, they might give him some merit.
Or he can go to community college.
Then he can transfer to a good program for a master’s at Ohio State, Cincinnati, KSU or elsewhere.
That’s a great thread, @Midwest67 - thanks.
Hey, thanks everyone. Blossom: Ack, I totally didn’t mean the State U With Tuition Waiver was prison. What I was trying (but failing) to do was to say that maybe he’ll pull out a Hail Mary somewhere. And maybe somewhere he loves will admit him despite “average” scores. But it sounds like that’s fantasy. In no way would I ever poo-poo any option that I was serious about sending him to. No no no. Everyone has given some really awesome advice here, and I thank you very much. All of your points are taken to heart – and I mean that. Even the ones that seem a little harsh! I’m listening, I’m listening. First kid going to college, so I have a lot to learn. We’ll see what happens, but absolutely being saddled with large debt is not an option. I’m hopeful that if he does go to State U, he’ll learn that it’s just fine and that it’s what he makes of it. In the meantime, I’ll be saving as much as possible to give him the chance to go to a grad school that he thinks is suited for him (and that he’s admitted to). Thanks to all.
We played a game with our kids for every college we considered, visited, emailed for information, etc. Each kid needed to find ONE thing that was fantastic about a school whether we took it off the list, kept it on, or were waffling. And both parents needed to do the same.
The trick to this is to make it not “just fine”, but to identify something really worthwhile or special about every college. Which if you put a modicum of effort into it- isn’t that hard.
Even the world’s worst campus tour (the student guide sounded like a 12 year old and couldn’t answer any questions; it started pouring rain in the middle and the guide couldn’t figure out that this would be a good time to check out the library NOT to cross the quad once it got muddy, and by the time the tiring and not helpful day was over- I got a parking ticket!) yielded two gems.
So start to “recalculate” as the GPS tells you. Start looking for something to love at every school you consider. And it’s a nice and polite thing to be able to say to a neighbor or acquaintance or classmate who ends up at one of these schools, “Oh we had the BEST ice cream when we visited and the students were so friendly”, or “We loved the fact that the student shuttle goes to the public beach down the road” or “There was so much going on at the student union- you will never run out of things to do at that campus”.
Makes April and May of senior year so lovely if your son has positive and legitimate things to say to his friends about their choices.
Interestingly … in public, my son is pretty complimentary about State U. It’s just in private that he complains. That gives me hope that if he goes there (IF), he’ll find it to be a place where he thrive despite whatever hangups he’s been fed about it up until this point.
Does your son have ANY safeties on his list? It doesn’t sound like it. Safeties are schools you’re sure you can get accepted to, can afford, AND would be happy to attend. It sounds like you’re pinning your hopes on a Hail Mary acceptance and your backup is to hope to persuade him to take the State School. If that’s the case, you’re not in a good position. Your choices are likely to be extensive debt or the state school. That’s where true financial safeties come in. You really need to find some schools that you can afford AND that he’d be willing to attend. There’s no harm in hoping for a miracle that puts him in the 12% who are accepted as long as you’re planning for the probability that he’ll end up in the 88% who aren’t.
@WantWhatsBest Being frank, those are average good scores. Can you imagine the pressure he’ll be under to perform at a college that you take out significant debt? Can’t he apply to the Honors college after a good first year? College will be harder than high school
Full disclosure: I am a HS senior, not a parent. But I’m dealing with similar issues over cheaper schools vs “better” (more selective) schools.
Can’t find the exact post but I know OP said her son’s scores/grades do not reflect his abilities. I’m curious if that’s because his abilities aren’t reflected in standardized tests (like artistic talent), because he struggles with test anxiety/strategies, or because he isn’t putting in as much work as he perhaps should. Not to assume that OP’s son falls into this category, but I know plenty of students who are extremely bright and slack off in school. The type of student who aces the tests without even trying but never does their homework. I know a couple of that type of student who are applying to top-tier schools, and I believe they’re smart enough to succeed, but without making a radical change to their work ethic, I can’t see them being happy at those schools.
Judging by OP’s posts, I think her son is more in the first category. In this case, there’s no reason to think a school where her son outperforms the majority academically will be lacking students who are talented in other ways. I know next to nothing about architecture but I can’t imagine there would be any lack of artistic students 
Seconding some suggestions by other posters and a couple of my own:
- Discuss trying the ACT, see if he scores better on it. Personally I’d suggest taking a full mock ACT (all in one sitting, as close to actual test conditions as you can) before shelling out money for an official test
- Look into tuition exchange programs, see if he’s eligible for anything
- See if there are regional tuition discounts you may be able to take advantage of. My area has the Western Undergraduate Exchange program, which lets students in certain states pay tuition that’s above in-state but significantly below OOS. I think there are some other analogous organizations in other regions.
In my opinion, @blossom is completely right about finding things to like about schools, no matter how small. Some of my favorite small things at the schools I’ve seen: classes are only 3 days a week, the department has an adorable dog as a mascot who hangs out in the halls, they have a great club team for my sport, the campus has a lot of trees, the meal plan is generous… I can’t imagine any campus doesn’t have a single thing to like 
It sounds like your son is fixated on stats like salaries of graduates and thinks that the state school is coming up short. One thing he might want to consider is where the students are going geographically, as that can have a large impact in a salary survey. Schools that send a large proportion of their grads to big cities are probably going to show higher salaries than a midwestern school where grads stay relatively local. My daughter attended a state flagship in the south. She ended up staying down there after graduation and getting a job in a smallish city. Her friends that returned to our area (Chicago) are making more than she is. However, their rent for a comparable place is easily 3 times what hers is. When adjusted for cost of living, she’s actually making more.
As you’ve told him, what your son does with his opportunities will be much more impactful on his future than the name of the school on his diploma. Most 17 year olds simply cannot properly evaluate student debt or comprehend the burden it will be in the future. I think it’s incumbent on us as parents to protect these kids from themselves and not co-sign loans that allow them to accumulate debt beyond the federal loan limit.