“3.0 or you’re done.”
OP- a useful tool they teach in therapy is to reframe your problem-- pretend you’re an outsider describing the situation.
My take? You have a kid who is at the college he always dreamed of attending! Bravo! You and your spouse helped him a lot with time management, academic support, structure, etc. before he left for college, and as a result, he’s eagerly gone back for his second year! He has friends and a social network! Despite spending lots of time at parties and online gaming, etc. he’s managed to pass all his courses!!! He held down a job all summer and even saved some money to finance his social life and other expenses when he went back to college!!!
Wow, what a great start to his college education.
The next step? Figure out how involved you want to be/intend to be. Based on your description of HS AND finding your kid a job (a big no-no in my book if you want your kid to launch independently) AND monitoring his location AND catching him lies without him knowing that YOU know he’s not at the library… you guys are used to a very cause/effect style of parenting. You nag, he does. You intervene, he dutifuly goes off to the job YOU selected for him (albeit unkempt) instead of the job he got for himself. But your comfort zone clearly lies in the “we need to intervene or else” school of parenting.
Why not try something else? Instead of trying to change HIM, change your own reactions???
I’m not criticizing. Just pointing out that changing someone else’s behavior is really hard- changing your own is a lot easier.
@blossom “Despite spending lots of time at parties and online gaming, etc. he’s managed to pass all his courses!!!”
That’s not true. He got one or two Ds, which have to be retaken. Based on what I saw at the time, courses he earned Cs and a B in don’t even really give freshmen Ds and Es.
“You intervene, he dutifuly goes off to the job YOU selected for him (albeit unkempt) instead of the job he got for himself.”
He was not excited or passionate about the service job from high school, it was just the easiest to obtain - requiring no effort to re-secure. That extent of his summer internship “plan” was to walk in after semester ended and get rehired.
I get it – my oldest struggled, I didn’t let it go on too long.
Freshman year 1st semester she did poorly – even more poorly than I realized. I told her 2nd semester was going to be better or she was done- 3.0 minimum for the semester.
Not surprisingly it didn’t happen - I heard both things – I tried my best and I couldn’t do better, I was not partying all the time really I wasn’t.
I didn’t even try to argue those things because well only she knew the truth and it kind of didn’t matter. My take was if you tried your best and 2.0 is all you could muster, you don’t belong there, if you didn’t try your best and spent all your time goofing off and partying, you don’t belong there (same outcome).
So at the end of semester 2 I was done, she came home and was required to get a job and do big girl things (buy a car, pay for insurance, pick up after herself etc.)
I also agree with the others (most of them) that continue to finance barely passing is not in anyone’s best interest.
Lay down the conditions, look away, and he will do it or not, then the consequences.
So your kid, according to you, is a “slacker “ and always has been. You pushed and shoved and did all kinds of contortions to get him in this school. He’s there and he’s being himself. And you really don’t seem surprised and I guess you shouldn’t be.
“We never disclose the truth” huh? Why not? Is it that you’re tracking his phone and chats and you don’t want him to know it?
I’d say have a real honest conversation with your son.
Lots of people exhibit these behaviors without suffering from depression.
"Your kid is going to have trouble in the future job market even if he eventually graduates with a 3.0. "
I agree with @Dolemite above. Sure, some doors will be closed but there are still plenty of employers who don’t ask about GPA.
Way back during my first semester of college, I goofed off and had a really crappy GPA. 1.9 if I recall correctly. My parents told me that I’d be paying for any class in which I got below a B. Never got below a B again and actually made Dean’s List many semesters, took only graduate level classes my last few semesters, served as an undergraduate TA my sophomore year, and graduated in 3 years. And this occurred working 15 hours per week (I strongly believe that working part time can help add structure and force one to be more efficient). I’d give him another chance because we all know the benefits of a college degree, despite the GPA. Set some firm, realistic expectations going forward but give him another chance.
I’d also tell him you are only paying for 4 years. If he fails classes and it takes him longer to graduate, he’ll have to take out loans/find ways to pay himself.
ETA: I do think you need to jettison the tracking apps, for his independence and your own sanity.
You are contradicting yourself.
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Perhaps it would have been better if you had let him take that job, rather than giving him the better job, so that he may have more incentive to do more than the minimum himself, rather than being pushed/dragged along by his parents, in order to get better jobs in the future.
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Is the military an option for your son ?
I ask because it appears that athletics is a large part of his life (presumably physically fit) and because this is not the right time in his life for college.
Sounds like you set out the route for him in high school and he didn’t have an opportunity to figure out what he really wants or what makes him tick. No wonder his only motivation now is freedom from parental supervision and he’s doing whatever he can to keep enjoying it. I think it’s time for an honest reevaluation of your family dynamics. Your son needs to think about his goals, you can’t set them for him any more. He needs to find his own motivation to reach these goals. If he can’t or doesn’t want to, I’d suggest taking a year off and finding a job.
By the way, physical appearance has absolutely nothing to do with academic success. I would worry about this only if it crosses some line, like not showering for a long time.
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@Leigh22 We paid for the phones and plan and it’s not a secret the entire family is active on Find My iPhone, a free and standard security feature on Apple’s website.
We were wishful he would grow up. Were we naive to hope for some maturation? It’s as if none has occurred in five years - he’s surrounded by ambitious peers, yet he’s wedded to child-like pursuits. So what do we do now? What does a conversation accomplish? At this point his words mean very little to us. He’s going to be 20 soon, he’ll say anything to keep his freedom and social life.
Maybe revisit the depression idea. Depression doesn’t necessarily mean someone is sad or despondent all the time. Think of the word depressed, not the word for the emotional state but as a physical state of slowing down or a dampening effect, pressing, recession, lowering etc.
Regardless of whether depression or something is involved, it doesn’t sound like he’s had to rely on himself very much. What would happen if he did? How far are you willing to let him go? It’s really really really hard as a parent to see your kid fail but sometimes it has to happen for growth to occur.
We went through something slightly similar with my D who ended up having a severe pervasive mental illness. Not that your son has that, but we were asking the same question about when to pull the money plug. We’re still paying because she did some things we asked her to do. She is living at home and attending school part time, that’s a solution that works for our family.
Maybe he could take a semester off to rethink what he wants to do. Students, even high-achieving students, do that all the time. He could use that time to get a Mcjob (on his own, do NOT help him) and pay most of his own expenses so he can see how expensive life can be, or volunteer somewhere doing something he enjoys and build his resume. Seeing his peers progress and get internships and jobs might motivate him not to be left behind. It’s hard to party and hang out with your friends when they all have to get up early the next day to go to their really cool internship or a “grownup” job.
If he decides that college isn’t for him, woohoo, guess that 529 is yours (with a tax hit of course, maybe he could repay the penalty).
Regarding the GPA, as is usually the case, I agree with ucbalumnus. Like the kids say “C’s get degrees!”
Also, stop stalking him, you’re gonna drive yourself crazy!
@ucbalumnus If we had let him keep the no-effort high school job he’d have no savings (we’d be paying for food right now) and zero professional experience (we thought would help him grow). He came home from college and said his plan was to “just” walk in and get rehired at high school job. That was unacceptable effort in our view, and the job was for 15 and 16 year old kids, not nearly 20 year olds home from college. It was time to advance to something more serious.
No, you were not naive to hope for some maturation. However, it is time to stop hoping and take steps to make it happen.
You’ve been given a lot of great ideas here. Make time today to have that conversation with DS.
It is not unheard of for a kid that is a smart slacker in HS to figure it out in college. I have seen many kids do this (and of course some that do not). While the parents may have supported this kid more than some find acceptable, they are not alone and many such kids do just fine in college. Helping a kid get a job is also not unheard of, especially for a 19yo kid home for summer break after freshman year. Not that easy to get a job and using connections is pretty common. .
I agree that barely a 2.0, with having to re-take classes is not good. @toomanyteens makes a good point - beyond the partying, if a 2.0 is all he can get working hard he may not belong in this college, dream or not. I don’t think a kid is doomed if he is close to, but not quite, at a 3.0. It would be harder to get that first job, but not impossible. A barely 2.0, however, will close a lot of doors.
I would look for improvement. He is not going to bring the 2.0 to a 3.0 overnight, but he should be getting mostly Bs (and some As) this semester. I would also look at his major. I know kids that started in engineering or business and found it too hard, so had to change.
I would give him to the end of the year to show improvement. If not, I would make him take a semester off and work and possibly change to an easier college. Know, however, that he could decide never to finish college.
I would also go visit for parents weekend or other and have a direct conversation with him about your concerns and ask him about the grades. But I would also stop with the find my phone and other stalking. Either you trust him to tell the truth or you don’t.
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He is not doing anything because he knows you will do it any way-you want him to succeed more than he does. If you continue on your path, he will continue on his current path, it is up to you. There are parents willing to pay for a party; others are not. Decide which you are and act accordingly.
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However, you rewarded his minimal effort by giving him a better job, rather than letting natural consequences happen where he works at the high school job. That could have given him more self-motivation to do better the next time, compared to having a better job handed to him despite his minimal effort.
I would set expectations for improvement - first, no more Ds.
Regarding facial hair and rumpled business clothes, this describes many in the CS field as well as many professors.
It sounds like you know your son is going to have issues if you don’t support him in some major ways, so you support him. I can’t fault you for that - it’s what parents who love their kids do!
And it sounds like you have expected that he would mature and no longer need your supports, and that too is reasonable.
I’m wondering if there’s a different angle. Could you require that he meet with a therapist or coach? If he were getting the support elsewhere, perhaps he’d respond differently than he does to you. My guess is that at some point, he will realize that his ambitious friends are making plans for the future that leave him in the dust. And that might change things. But how much better would it be if he could recognize the need for a change before he’s filled with regret?
Honestly, I understand the tough love approach, but I am not convinced he’s so far off the path that it’s necessary. It sounds like keeping him on the path might be the key. I would even entertain family therapy. It sounds like it’s taking a toll on all of you.
“He was not excited or passionate about the service job from high school, it was just the easiest to obtain”
OP- you seem to be moving the goalposts here on your kid- it’s not enough that he gets a job, now he’s got to be excited and passionate about it?
I’m not busting your chops- but you’re pushing back at a lot of the posters here who are trying to help you. It will help us help you if you can describe exactly what conversations you’ve had with your son about expectations, paying for college, etc. It sounds as though you’re expecting him to turn into an ambitious, self-directed, high achieving kid all on his own- miraculously- by you guys nudging and prodding but without ever explicitly laying down the rules of the road.
Not gonna happen. He needs to retake a course where he got a D? Who is paying for the retake? If he’s expected to pay for it- does he know that? Does he understand that the money spigot is getting turned off after he graduates? You are paying for his health insurance- correct? Does he know how much that is- and does he understand what kind of job offers health insurance? (I assume it’s not car insurance.)
Why did you wait until he got home from freshman year to broach the subject of his job search for the summer? That’s a conversation for February… not late May.
More talking, less monitoring of his phone…
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