@ucbalumnus What would be the natural consequence you believe he missed working the high school job? I think you’re alluding to a summer epiphany at a crummy low-prestige job - I know that wouldn’t have happened. He didn’t care one way or the other. Both would have put immediate money in his pocket, both ended at 5PM and allowed the same fast food and video games after. The more professional one was supposed to be more serious, less goofing off with teens, chance for growth. The bigger paycheck wasn’t his to keep, we’ve made him use those savings to pay for his own college meals now.
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He could have a part time job in college to help pay for food and incidentals too.
Is he on track to finish a major?
Do you think an employer would rather have a college drop out with a 2.0 or a college grad with a 2.0?
There is a reason people can graduate with a 2.0 - because it is passing.
A friend’s son had to tell her that he’d received 2 D’s and an F last year. It caused him to fall below a 3.0 so his scholarship was cancelled. They appealed and it was back, but friend doesn’t want him to take more than 3 engineering classes. He doesn’t like anything else. He has to have at least 12 credits, so now is forced to take something else, and I think he’s miserable and they should just let him take the engineering classes, get a job with a professor, and become so busy that he doesn’t have time for video games. IMO, some students need to be kept busy full time or they just start wasting more and more time. I don’t think taking only 12 credits will make the student work harder on those 12 credits, I think it just gives them too much extra time to waste.
My daughter was very busy (very little tv or video games) so didn’t work until her final semester. She loved it. Wished she had worked for a professor earlier in college, which would have required her to focus even MORE than she already did (she was pretty focused). Her friends and teammates who were busiest had the best grades. Several were varsity athletes and also worked 20 hours per week. They still had a social life, but it was planned, not open ended.
If your son likes the D1 sports at his school, he could get a job at the athletic dept. They are always hiring game day help, on field stats takers, people at the smoothie bar. If he’s a stats junkie (fantasy football?), they need people to do that because they keep stats on everything. Video? They always need people to do the practices and games. It is not exciting to most people to stand out on a hot (or rainy, or both) field watching every play, noting every yard gained or assist, but others really like to know the inside stuff. (I have a crazy brother who used to watch college football on TV and keep the stats just for fun) You don’t need to join a booster club if you are actually part of the program.
At a certain point, I started drilling into D2, “just graduate.” I knew she wasn’t accurately representing what she did with her time and her effort wasn’t the right max.
She’s never been asked for her gpa for a job. The surprising thing (I thought it was stunning, actually,) is how well educated she is and a more than capable thinker. In the right jobs, she’s great.
There are other issues that can keep me up at night. She’s not really operating at her chronological age. She’s still learning about makig best decisions for her own life. But we were right to push toward the degree. It’s done.
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“The bigger paycheck wasn’t his to keep, we’ve made him use those savings to pay for his own college meals now.”
You could have had the same expectation with either job. He would have realized he’d have a lot less funds available with the crummy job. I still think getting a part-time job now wouldn’t be a bad idea. Sounds like he needs structure.
I think @gardenstategal’s suggestion of looking for some counseling with a third party for him is worth a try. Humans often talk and listen more effectively with an unbiased 3rd party than we do with family members where we bring history and all kinds of assumptions and expectations into the conversation.
@blossom It seemed to be suggested in another post we robbed him of a summer gig he was passionate about and forced him into a job he didn’t want, he wasn’t passionate about. I am trying to add clarity, not pushing back in a hostile way. He was falling into the laziest lowest effort job he could get - it’s consistent with a pattern of behavior. He didn’t know we’d save him from this job, he was ready to walk in and start and didn’t consider this was more of the same lazy, immature and low-effort behavior.
In other words, you gave him a “better” job, but then took away the extra pay that it gave? Seems like the message you are (perhaps not intentionally) sending is that his own effort does not matter.
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Again, I would like to raise the thought of a few years in the military. His drill sargeant should give him all the therapy that he can handle. Your son will dress well. He will get into top physical shape while earning an income and being separated from video games. Should receive practical training & likely to travel abroad.
Could help to build self pride, self identity, sense of accomplishment. Can return to college after a few years in the service.
If you finish with a college GPA with a high GPA, for example, of 3.8 or 3.9, graduate with some distinction, then I think most young college graduates entering the working world would be trumpeting that fact on their resume.
Omission of your college GPA on your resume, while attempting to obtain your first job or two or three, just makes it plainly obvious, at least to me.
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We don’t know enough to tell if he’s depressed or not, but I think it would be a good idea for him to talk to a counselor. You don’t want to take a chance on missing something like that.
What is his major? What academic subjects have come easier to him in the past? What (if anything) has he said he’d like to do in the world of work? Even if he doesn’t really know, what are some ideas he has mentioned in the past? What (other than video games, sports, partying) has he enjoyed doing in the past (even if it was long time ago). Just trying to parse what might motivate him to want to put in some effort…
Sushiritto, I know some employers ask for gpa, but I don’t believe it’s an accruate prediction of job success, overall. College courses vs real world tasks. It’s the same as folks insisting hs gpa is the one sure marker of college “success.” All these things really show is one put in the right effort for the grades.
Sure, have him see a counselor.
As parents, our perception that we’re right to always assess and act (get him a better job, eg,) isn’t always right or best for a kid. It can perpetuate a dependence cycle, impact the sense of responsibility for one’s own choices, miss important lessons about personal accountability. And making right choices on their own. A lot of kids do not grow up, when that’s the context.
We were very clear with our kids up front. If they had to retake any course, they had to pay for the retake.
This sounds like a pricey private university. We also told our kids that our funding required they maintain a 3.0 average. This meant they could get a C or two as long as they had A grades to balance them out.
No 3.0 GPA, and we would have required them to come home Nd attend a less costly instate public university.
We paid tuition, fees, room board. Our kids were responsible for earning enough money for all discretionary spending…and books.
BUT we made these expectations clear up front.
I need to add, both of our kids worked in the summers at jobs they held before college started, and none were found by us. None were “professional” but they sure showed commitment and longevity. One was a restaurant worker and the other a life guard. Neither of those things related to their majors or career goals, but they were worthy nonetheless. Plus our kids found these jobs.
They also knew that we would not fund discretionary spending…so both had jobs during college as well. Does your son work during college? There is research that shows that working actually improves student organization and performance.
It never would have dawned on me to take money my kids earned and make them use a portion for food. Frankly that sounds like a punishment for taking the job you found for him.
At this point, I would suggest he see a counselor. Depression can be well hidden and manifests itself in different ways. You should also have a discussion about your parent expectations. I would start with an absolute…no more D grades which are throwing money away as they have to be repeated.
Whatever you decide…be prepared to stick with it. If you decide D grades will trigger leaving this school, have your kid request a leave of absence…and give him a year to prove that he should be allowed to return.
Frankly it’s better for you to do this than to have him flunk out and be dismissed.
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@Publisher My husband encouraged him to pursue ROTC, if only for a couple years of discipline and physical activity. From what my husband’s veteran friend told him, the first two years you can train with the ROTC peers, so to speak, without commitment after college? You don’t become official until the summer before junior (or is it senior) year. If he wanted to commit to serve after college, go ahead, but if he didn’t that’s fine, too. Training he could attend was a few days a week, early in the morning. Son even knows a few peers in ROTC. He said he would go, but he never bothered. He’s just frustratingly lazy, no moxie - like a bump on a log.
I really don’t understand why this is a discussion now, IMO the time for that was end of last academic year, this year would not have included going to sleep away college. He could have transferred to your local commutable, got a job, looked at working his way through college school, done some summer retake classes at CC? You are now locked in for at least one semester of tuition and very possibly the housing contract that is almost 100% of the academic year.
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Sybylla, I would have pulled plugs in high school. If the parents were keeping him afloat in hs by riding him hard and filling in blanks (original post,) I wouln’t have had pricey rah-rah fun colleges on the list. The dead serious convo would have happened then.
Btw, as we say to kids writing pleas to be reinstated to college, becuase they were dismissed, promises don’t cut it. Actions speak.
@lookingforward It’s not just the GPA, it’s lack of passion, lack of club involvement, lack of taking studies seriously, still wedded to immature timesinks teens grow out of, the lying, lack of detectable maturation, and zero appreciation for the sacrifices we make to pay for it all. I’m not in the GPA doesn’t matter crowd; GPA and college major are the most important signals of college accomplishment. And even if you omit GPA (and major), he’s not involved in any other pursuits that signal hidden promise. It’s as if he’s not even in college, he’s at college.
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One thing i would ask myself, “if I stop paying his tuition and he drops out of college, what is he going to do next?” My guess is that he’s going to move back in with you, am I right? And now you’ve got a whole new barrel of problems.
I would have also pulled at the end of last year. My kids would get a single warning on a repeated class and then done. I don’t care so much about GPA. But repeated classes that are on my dime twice? Hard no on that.
I agree he should be assessed for mental illness and possibly also learning differences (ADHD/ADD, etc). Connecting with a therapist isn’t a bad idea. I’d be curious about drug use.
If he’s so excited about his freedom, he can have it without you paying thousands in tuition. If he wants to succeed, maybe it would go better living at home with those extra supports.
I actually don’t think it’s odd for a college student with a better job to take on more of their own expenses. My parents helped me with college quite a bit. But as I earned more money and got better internships, I paid more of my own expenses. I agree that he should have found his own job or at least been engaged in the process and grateful.
I’ve known a few dozen ROTC undergrads. All due respect to the OP- no. It is HARDER to manage your time, expectations, physical training, sleep, keep up with demanding coursework, etc. in the program, not easier. He sounds like the least likely ROTC candidate of all time.
OP- work with what you got. He’s desperate to stay in college (to avoid living at home, to avoid having to deal with Mom and Pop on his case, to stay with his friends, whatever). So that’s his motivation- he goes on academic probation? He comes home. He’s a bump on a log regarding motivation, ambition, hard work? OK, so no Rhodes or Marshall Scholarships coming his way- check. Not everyone becomes a neurosurgeon and that’s ok. And plenty of people with C%^&* GPA’s get jobs. Some of them are late bloomers and turn it around in their 20’s. And some get a job as insurance adjusters and municipal service coordinators for the city of Cedar Rapids or any one of thousands of jobs that college graduates can get where nobody cares what your GPA was.
Lay out the consequences of flunking a course; lay out the consequences of graduating without being able to support himself, stop finding him jobs to “upgrade” his skills, stop tracking his phone. And remind him that if he decides to take time off from college- you will be 100% supportive emotionally, but he will be living at home, under your roof with chores and responsibilities AND a job to help pay you some rent.