NACE surveys suggest that about 70% of employers have a cutoff GPA for college recruits to advance to the interview, and about 60% of those use a 3.0 as the cutoff.
However, it is unlikely that GPA is significant once the applicant has gotten to the interview – the applicant has passed the pre-screening, including GPA higher than the cutoff if such is part of the pre-screening.
Video gaming can be addictive for some. Perhaps thinking about it and treating it like and addiction might help. Counseling could help with that as well.
And there are many employers that don’t monkey around with NACE surveys.
FWIW, I live in Silicon Valley, so there’s lots of not-a-care-in-the-world looking kids running around who are unshaven and wearing ratty-tatty clothes. The difference is that they don’t appear to be lazy, but who knows what they’re doing on their computer at the local cafe.
Anecdotal, but I know a family who has what appears to be a similar kid. The parents sent their kid across the country to a Top 40 college. Their son is smart, but lazy and probably partied too much. I believe the parents took him out of school 2nd semester sophomore year. The son is still jobless and living for free with a relative, though in exchange for some help around the house.
So, trust me, you’re not alone out there.
Apologies for not reading every post, so I may be repeating…
This could have been my child, who turned out to be profoundly depressed and diagnosed with a learning disorder. Maybe that’s not the OP’s kid. But I think parents’ first job is to be always on our kids’ team, together. That doesn’t mean be permissive or excusing everything. But I think in the long run, you don’t get much in results from punitive measures, recrimination, accusation, and name calling (“lazy”). If you consider the best coaches and mentors, they don’t do a lot of shaming.
My biggest regret is that I failed my child by failing to listen. I have worked hard to earn trust, to teach that we are a safe space, and that together we can work out of most any situation. I wish the OP and son lots of peace and understanding.
OP: There is a big difference between requiring your son to get a decent GPA and wanting him to be someone he is not. You can’t mold him into a intellectually curious driven kid and he doesn’t have to that driven to be successful. There are plenty of successful adults whose leisure activities are the equivalent of video gaming.
I would advise you to let go of your expectation that he will be who you think he SHOULD be and focus solely on his success in the classroom. If he never joins a club and spends his weekends partying and gaming he will be like many other college guys. As long as he gets decent grades, the rest should be up to him.
How did he do in the summer job? Did he complete it? Can he go back next summer? If so, that would be a good sign to me.
I would set an expectation for positive movement this term. At least a 2.5 GPA for this fall term, and no D or F grades…none. If he doesn’t meet the mark, he requests a leave of absence and works on getting his act together IF he wants to really return.
If he lives with you, the expectation would be that he have a job, help around the house, and at some point pay you a small amount of rent.
Let him know this is the expectation if you plan to do it…and be prepared to follow through if you choose this route.
I decided to pull the plug at the end of the school year. I wouldn’t rely on the school to make the decision for you. Without some kind of major disciplinary infraction or other crisis, the school doesn’t have much reason or incentive to force a kid out. Coasting along with a 2.0 is probably going to be fine with them.
After pulling the plug, there were a couple of years of various jobs, various community colleges, various living situations and other stuff. Considered a couple of years in the military. Considered dropping college and pursuing trade/technical schools. Kid eventually graduated from our home state flagship, which was a different school, with a GPA a little over a 3.0.
The 3.0 has caused my kid some job market problems. I’d guess a 2.0 would be worse.
I was your son, and my parents were you. After two years, I had a grand total of 12 credit hours towards my third major. I started out in engineering, switched to history, then to engineering technology. I loved college, except the class part.
I still remember the talk my dad had with me telling me that they aren’t paying for college anymore. I could move back home and pay $200/month rent or move out. I transferred to a regional campus, got a job in a factory and quickly realized that I didn’t want to do that for the rest of my life. The job had a thing where they did tuition reimbursement if I got a B or better in the class. From that point on, I never got a grade worse than a B. I later got married and from then on, never a grade less than an A. I went on to get a MS from main campus and an MBA from Kellogg. I now sit at the top of my profession and would consider myself very successful.
I’m sure it was a hard talk my Dad had to give me. I can’t imagine doing the same thing with my three kids today, and thankfully I don’t have to as they are all great students. But, that one point in my life was the “hard love” I needed. I don’t think it wasn’t a case of not being smart enough, it was more about not being mature enough. I needed to figure that out myself. Once I did, it was a crossroads moment.
I’m not saying my experience will match yours, but it is a data point.
You need to tell your son flat out what you expect him to be achieving at school: Is a 2.5 acceptable to you? A 3.0? He needs to know. He needs to know the consequences, too. If you’ve helped him in the past (by riding him, helping with jobs) despite poor academic performance he may think you’ll always be helping him, no matter the grades.
So ask yourself, are you willing to yank him out of school – and possibly derail his college career – for that 2.0? I have a hunch you won’t since you seem a bit… well, ambitious, for him. And he may know that…
I’ve come in late here and haven’t read everything so apologies if this is a repeat, but: what kind of expectations did you set up front? Did he know he had a minimum expected gpa to reach?
I took the same approach as @toomanyteens.
If a 2.0 is the best result we can get, then we need to re-assess. Maybe you’re really not seriously trying. If you are trying, then maybe college just isn’t your thing. Maybe this college or major isn’t your thing. Maybe now isn’t the time for college. Maybe there’s an LD or addiction or emotional or mental health issue going on. Could be a lot of things – so let’s figure it out.
After you look at it, continuing on the current path and limping to a C-level degree may actually make sense as compared to the other options. But it certainly isn’t the only option. Tons of kids transfer schools or have breaks along the way.
The only thing I’d advise strongly against is just plodding along, continuing to surveil and heli-parent (oh I’ve been there, done that!!), and hoping it will change on its own.
Does your son like the school? What is his major? What are the classes he is taking now?
Could it be that he is taking the classes that he really hates?
@mom2and What do you mean by futile attempt to “mold him” and “let go of who he should be”? Are you suggesting just accept the subpar grades, lies, low-effort and lack of forward-thinking?
As for mentioning lack of clubs, lack of summer effort, that was just laying it all out there as I figured folks would ask if he’s doing anything outside of grades that demonstrates passion or potential. He’s not.
How much money are you paying each year for school?
Tough call @JGmom20 .
I’m the parent of a high-GPA college grad and also the parent of a two-semester college dropout. I would love for the latter to have been able to graduate with a 2.0. Eventually he found his feet in a finance/sales field where he’s about the only one in his office without a degree, but he’s good at what he does. Maybe he’ll go back at some point but I don’t see it. Nonetheless, I still wonder what I could have done to change this outcome. Not sure there’s anything, honestly.
The more academically inclined kid graduated with little debt and a great job. The other struggled for a bit, and has loan debt (without the degree!) which he didn’t consistently pay, and so is now having to repay a much greater amount than he borrowed. I hate that, but it is a natural consequence of his actions.
Speaking of natural consequences…
The term “natural consequence” means things that result from a kid’s actions when parents get out of the way, not consequences set by parents. Those would be consequences but not “natural” ones. See https://www.positivediscipline.com/articles/natural-consequences
So a natural consequence of not looking for a career-enhancing summer job is not having such a job, doing the boring low paying service job from high school.
A natural consequence of having a high paying summer job is having more money and a better resume.
A natural consequence of graduating with a 2.0 gpa may be having trouble getting interviews for desired jobs or difficulty getting in grad school.
I agree that whatever your line in the sand is, you need to draw it very clearly so he can decide whether to stay on his side of it or not. I think it probably looks like “no more D grades we won’t pay for retakes”, or “3.0 gpa next semester or you have to take a semester off”, or whatever it is. It probably can’t be vague, like “stop being a bump on a log” or “Be more forward thinking and ambitious”.
Lovely story, thanks for sharing. Can you share when the talk happened with your father - summer following sophomore year? Did you transfer immediately into the local campus and begin taking courses that fall or take a break from college for a bit? I wonder if you knew of the tuition reimbursement ahead of time (is that why you went to work there?) or did you merely land at some random factory that happened to be hiring, later stumbled upon the tuition reimbursement and decided that was a ticket back to finishing you bachelor’s? You mentioned getting married, so can we infer you were part-time in finishing the bachelor’s?
Echoing some posters above, I think that your child might be suffering from depression. He wants to improve as he promised that this year would be different, but he does not know how. Perhaps you can persuade him to seek medical help. Some forms of depression can be treated through counseling, and without drugs.
Low grades and lies no, not acceptable if I am paying the bills. As I posted above, I would expect close to a 3.0 moving forward or he should take a break, switch colleges or work. But if he makes the required grades with limited effort and no forward thinking, that should be acceptable since you can’t control nor easily measure either effort or forward thinking. Your only means of control is money - you can stop paying for college and kick him out of your house. Getting a college degree with decent grades requires more effort than he has been putting forth, but not necessary as high a level of effort as you may think is required.
To me the goal would be for him to get a degree with a decent GPA and ultimately find rewarding work and have a good life. He may never live up to his potential. Many parents have to accept that the kid that has enormous intellectual potential ends up in a mundane job that doesn’t require his full ability. And parents have to accept that in order to retain their relationship with their adult child.
There is an old saying on CC, to love the kid on the couch not the kid you want them to be. You also want to preserve your relationship with your son.
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1> immediately following my spring semester of my sophomore year. I then went to work at the factory and transferred at the same time. I did not take a break because I had worked in factories in the summers prior and knew I probably wanted a job that required a degree. I ended up going part time for 6 years + summers to graduate in 8 years total.
2> I ended up working at a place and then found the “tuition reimbursement policy.” I didn’t pick it because of it. But to be honest, I’ve worked for many different companies over the past 30 years and each company had that policy. I believe that even Starbucks and McDonalds has it. It isn’t that uncommon. What is unbelievable is how underutilized that program is at companies. I was the exception of someone who worked full-time and went to school part time+ to get a degree.