<p>A boy we know who was accepted to MIT a few years ago turned it down, in spite of the fact that he felt he needed a very stimulating peer group-kids as eager to learn as he. He chose to attend a substantially less well thought of school for a free ride in the Honors Program (the school was not UT or something comparable). Ultimately, he decided that he would have enough "peers" in the Honors program and that he really didn;t want to be middle of the heap after all. I have no idea how he has done, but I think there are decisions made by kids all the time that are individualistic and idiosyncratic. I think parental influence is a significant factor. This boy's parents strongly endorsed his choice, while many of us stood by in amazement. The money they had saved for college, which was ample, would now be applied to whatever he did afterwards. The counselors were split, some were of the "it doesn't matter where you go for undergrad, you can go to the "name" school for grad school variety"- others were astonished. </p>
<p>I rationalized then that if this was the boy's attitude, he probably wouldn't have been happy, even though he was clearly qualified. I am of the "your peer group is key and you want to be with a broad group of like minded kids" category myself, but respect the realities as other people see them...</p>
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<p>I really want her to be happy, and to know that I support her. But I worry that since she gets frustrated at times with the lack of enthusiasm that many of her fellow high school students show in high school subjects she might feel the same at a university where this could happen. Does that make sense??>></p>
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<p>I agree that the most important consideration is for the OP's D to be happy with her choice, and it seems that the two "safeties" (later identified as UT-Austin and Baylor) fulfill her requirements. I don't know enough to comment on either of them. But I have been reacting to the quote above. It sounds so much like my own S who does his best work when he is challenged both by the materials and by his classmates.
As many have said earlier, students have different learning styles and some may be more affected by their fellow students than others. It seems that if the OP's D attends a college where she is in the top 5%, she may repeat the experience she has had in high school of being frustrated by less committeed students than she. Perhaps honors programs work well in providing a community of like-minded high achieving students, and that would be enough to address the concerns of the OP.</p>
<p>Just a note about Baylor. The school is Baptist, and discriminates against students who support Gay rights or are Gay. One student was denied his diploma or something similar to that because he marched in a Gay parade - I remember reading about it in the Austin American-Statesman, our local newspaper, and some students were censored (or fired from the newspaper staff? I can't remember the details exactly...), when they wrote an editorial supporting the student. This is not to say that there are not wonderful teachers there, etc, but I would not condone this kind of discrimination by sending my kid to Baylor.</p>
<p>There is a school nearby me with similar views; I sense the kids attending are also more open minded than the administration. Though some parents might want their kids in this sort of enviornment, many would not. </p>
<p>Certain Christian colleges are very loose & low key and others are very doctrinaire, rigid-- do your homework and know what sort of school you are dealing with. I have spoken to parents of kids who attended the Christian college in my area who were taken by surprise how rigid the views were there.</p>
<p>Getting the school newspaper online is a good way to see what the issues on campus are.</p>
<p>Gay rights is not now and has never been a hot political issue on Baylor's campus. To have a dialogue at least two voices have to be speaking.</p>
<p>What IS happening is an attempt by the faculty senate to topple the President, ostensibly because of imprudent spending-in reality because of the administration's desire to create a much larger Wheaton (Ill.) with a sizable endowment.</p>
<p>And Anxiousmom, don't lose any sleep over it. They don't want you either!LOL. They are not apologetic or hiding their beliefs . Remember folks, the anti-gay marriage folks have big dinero, they are big $ contributors to political campaigns, and they won. They also are the type that give millions and millions to Baylor and Wheaton.</p>
<p>In my 2 years living in Texas I met a wide group of Baylor alums. There is a fabulous network in Texas and the region and they take care of one another in many ways. </p>
<p>My son's orthodontist in Singapore went to dental school at Baylor and he had a Baylor Alumni magazine in the waiting room. There was a lengthy article about the various "intramural" events taking place. When I put the magazine down a Chinese-Singaporean mom picked it up. We were in the waiting room a long time(!) and she glanced through the magazine and then said to her teenaged daughter "This is a university only for Baptist Christians- there is everything in America!"</p>
<p>I agree with Cangel that Rice might be worth taking a close look at, if she hasn't already. It would provide an environment much more like a selective LAC than UT could, even if she ends up in Plan II.</p>
<p>"My son's orthodontist in Singapore went to dental school at Baylor and he had a Baylor Alumni magazine in the waiting room. There was a lengthy article about the various "intramural" events taking place."</p>
<p>Unless there are more than one, the Baylor Dental school is NOT in Waco, and does not seem to be affiliated with the Baptist Baylor School. Baylor is the name of one of the largest hospitals in Dallas. </p>
<p>Baylor College of Dentistry
Texas A&M University System
Health Science Center
Baylor College of Dentistry
Office of Admissions & Academic Records
PO Box 660677
Dallas, Texas 75266-0677
PHONE: 214-828-8230
FAX: 214-874-4567 </p>
<p>The names given to the medical programs in Texas are somewhat confusing. For instance, the renowned UT Medical School is also in Dallas. </p>
<p>UT Southwestern Medical Center
Medical School Admissions
The University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
at Dallas
Bldg. E-5, Rm. 506
5323 Harry Hines Boulevard
Dallas, Texas 75390-9162
PHONE: 214-648-5617
FAX: 214-648-3289</p>
<p>Texas 137, it is interesting that you would say that about Rice. We went to the presentation in our home town given by Rice and to us it really seemed more math and science oriented. The presentation did make Rice seem appealing to d but she figured that they would be looking for someone stronger in math than she is. Plus she never has wanted to live in Houston. Do you think they have a strong English department? Or were you only referring to the environment?</p>
<p>(As an interesting note, d's dad graduated from the Baylor in Houston. His impression was that all the Rice people were very smart but knew how to have fun also)</p>
<p>Xiggi,
When you are an alumni of a graduate school of a university you get the same alumni magazine that you do when you are an undergraduate alum. Hence, the magazine was referencing all aspects of Baylor, including the Waco campus. The orthodontist attended Baylor Dental, I know the campus is not in Waco and my comments (aside from my description of my interactions with Baylor alums) do not reflect any personal experience I have with Baylor. They are the comments of a non-American reading Baylor magazine...</p>
<p>Robyrm, I understand that your son's orthodondist proudly displays a copy of a Baylor University's alumni magazine. However, your son's doctor must not be a spring chicken since Baylor ceased to be affiliated with Baylor University in 1971. The only reason to mention the correct affiliations of the dental and medical school is to avoid a possible misunderstanding about the Waco school. </p>
<p>
[quote]
The commitment of BCD faculty, staff and alumni has helped ensure the continuing quality and prestige of the college from its beginning in 1905 as the private State Dental College, through its affiliation with Baylor University from 1918 to 1971, and throughout the next 25 years as an independent, private institution. In September 1996, BCD became a member of The Texas A&M University System, and today is a component of The A&M System Health Science Center. </p>
<p>Achievements: Baylor College of Dentistry was named one of the top four dental institutions nationwide for periodontology, endodontics and geriatric dentistry by American Health Magazine. In 1997, through its Center for TeleHealth, BCD became the nation's first dental school to successfully demonstrate the use of telecommunications technology for dental medicine through a long-distance patient consultation between dentists at the BCD campus and 175 dental professionals convened in Orlando, Fla. </p>
<p>Each year, the college completes more than 103,500 patient care visits, 45 percent of which benefit low-income individuals. Of the care it provides, the college donates $3.3 million in services to the community. The college produces the nation's only syndicated, weekly dental health news program, Dental Health Check.
<p>Islandmom - Rice is strong in, and well-known for, math and science. But it's an overall well-respected, small school with fine departments in other areas as well. I don't like Houston either, but Rice is in a nice older part of the city. Of course, that doesn't help with the weather, but everything is airconditioned.</p>
<p>If your daughter does end up in Plan II at UT, she will be able to live in the honors dorm. That might make it feel more like a smaller, more personal school experience w/in the mega-university.</p>
<p>Going back to the original issue - my son definitely wants to be at the most high-powered school possible. But he has a friend with similar abilities who is consciously choosing to only apply to less selective schools where he will be in the very top. Seems to be a personality difference btwn them.</p>
<p>My D is a soph at Rice and loves Houston and the campus. She is not science and math oriented and is a vocal performance major in the Shepherd School of Music, one of the top music schools in the country. She has loved her language and liberal arts courses that she has taken. There are quite a few science and math majors, of course, but lots of everything else, too. I think Rice is the gem of Texas- my D swore she would not attend college in Texas, but Rice is a perfect fit. The kids DO know how to have fun, but she has enjoyed being surrounded by bright kids and has taken advantage of the cultural offerings in Houston. Oh- one interesting tidbit. Last year when the Super Bowl was in Houston the Rice kids were sternly warned that renting out their rooms was a violation of their housing contracts!! Karen</p>
<p>This is a judgement call where really more info is needed. There are kids who know pretty much what they want and match/safety schools will serve them just fine; at their point in development, it may be the best choice. My girls and nephew fell in that category. However, I see in our school district and everywhere else we lived, many kids who fall into the the "crowd" mentality where they limit themselves by their environment and the kids, family, peers. Around here, the state U is the major goal for kids here. And for many kids, it is just fine. But there are some kids that would be so much better served by a smaller college, perhaps a LAC. There are also kids that you just know should leave the area and broaden their horizons. The only thing limiting them is the fact that they want to stay with the familiar and the idea of going to, say Wake Forest U, where they don't know anyone, is too overwhelming to consider. And this is supported by their family/friend and school networks. When my kids were going to catholic schools, the list of catholic colleges that "everyone" was applying to was not a typical list for the kids going to an independent school up the road or for the public school. All within a 3 and half mile radius from each other. So it depends so much on what the limiting factor for picking schools happens to be and whether it is on a solid premise. Kids, families often get blinders when they start picking colleges, and it is a shame to put limitations that are really not there when other options might be better for a given student.</p>
<p>I think the best advice I have been given on this board is to suggest to your S or D to concentrate the majority of their application process on finding that one (or two) safety schools , both selectivity and financial , that they would LOVE to attend. By financial safety , I mean you assume your EFC will come out higher than an NBA first rounder's, and further that no merit aid will be forthcoming (other than the "guaranteed scholarships" in place at some schools, and of course, post acceptance offers).Throw in other practicalities such as transportation (do you get to take your car or how many airplane trips home are affordable) and suddenly at your house every new piece of mail from a college gets compared to the known safety. It doesn't add anything to _______ or ________ has that program and I can take my car or at ____________ I can get $10k in merit. I am watching it happen. Now she still desires to get the mail just to see if something is better out there that she doesn't know about, it's just that now she has a baseline for comparison.</p>
<p>So back to the OP,there is nothing wrong with selecting your safety. I have a feeling D will choose the school that "best fits" her ,also, as opposed to the most selective school . Right now that is a safety, not a match or a reach. D has probably 20 close friends that will be attending Baylor, 20 that will be attending Texas. IF D was happy with their locations ( too close), or size (too big) she would consider both schools as realistic safeties, also. It pains me terribly to say it, but I would counsel her against Baylor at this time because of what I feel is Baylor's "enforced religiosity", and by enforced I mean enforced on the existing professors and even more greatly on the new hires. I would however, after full disclosure , allow her to make her own decision and support that decision as she ,like your D, is more religious than I am. Good luck to your D.</p>
<p>It is great to have two realistic safety/matches. Many parents have the opposite situation, where their child has two major reaches in mind, and won't get focused on or excited about the very likely schools. This process is so stressful. To keep it bearable, nothing is more important than a kid finding a place or two that they love where they can count on getting in.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I think a few reaches are in possibly in order. But you want to encourage this without in any way denegrating the great schools she is already excited about. (How I did this was to call the reaches a "lottery ticket" the matches a "raffle ticket" and the safetys "the schools where you'd really fit.") I want my D happy if none of the reaches comes through, but just in case one does, she will have that option. </p>
<p>Also, I got her to broaden her search by reminding her that minds can change between now and spring, and as long as she wasn't ED at a school there was no obligation to go. Though she's a LAC kid I suggested one major Univ & a few med size colleges be included too-- just in case. (She did elect to apply ED at one school but as it is a "lottery ticket" we are preparing the other apps right now, to be sent in Dec. Her two safetys are both EA so we will get word from them in Dec also.)</p>
<p>I might suggest your D look at Common App schools, so she could do just one app and cover several schools...</p>
<p>My daughter is at Rice too, and not an "academ" - not a sciency type. She also loves Rice. Houston may suck (and its horrible traffic), but the campus is large and green, and Rice is by the light rail, and opposite the huge park, and zoo, and museums and medical centers, and walkable to a lovely group of restaurants and little stores called "Rice Village" - it is really in a lovely location. Your daughter's stats certainly put her in range, if she reconsiders applying.</p>