<p>I have sympathy for your position, Mommeleh. One always hopes that ones child will discover a passionate interest in something that will bring them joy and fully engage them.</p>
<p>If your son starts taking lesson again from a teacher he likes, he will have to practice rather than drift. He may find that he really is motivated to improve as a musician, or he may find that it definitely is not for him–at least not this instrument and not now. In that case, he can pursue the pre-engineering courses. Of course, don’t forget that he may not catch fire with them either. You never know when it will happen: you can only keep putting ideas and opportunities in front of them.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Check if there is an after-school Robotics club </p></li>
<li><p>Try summer violin lessons, when there is more time available.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>If a student really wants to make progress on an instrument as difficult–and competitive–as the violin, s/he has to have real lessons all year round.</p>
<p>“If a student really wants to make progress on an instrument as difficult–and competitive–as the violin, s/he has to have real lessons all year round.”</p>
<p>It really depends on the student and the school. My daughter didn’t have private lessons, except for a handful one summer in highschool. Some of her friends in the orchestra had private lessons and belonged to the youth symphony in town. Others had music as a more casual interest. </p>
<p>It helped her to have orchestra for 90 minutes every other day starting in 6th grade. She was not the best violinist in her high school, but she enjoyed it all the way through senior year. It really was her only steady activitiy. When her schedule permitted it junior year, she was in the a better audition-only symphony orchestra. In senior year she had class conflicts and moved back down to string orchestra where she became second chair. We skipped the music award dinner that year (as usual), not knowing the director would award her the “Director’s Award”.</p>
<p>" have sympathy for your position, Mommeleh. One always hopes that ones child will discover a passionate interest in something that will bring them joy and fully engage them."</p>
<p>And that can happen when a teen is allowed to give up something they were interested in as a child, but are no longer interested in. Allowing them to give up a former passion may make way for a new one. There are so many interesting and productive activities available to teens that aren’t available to younger kids.</p>
<p>I think I understand your dilemma: If your son continues with violin (something he does not have a “passion” for), then it deprives him of the opportunity to discover other interests which may be more fulfilling? I’m not sure what I would do as a parent, but it is probably best that you let him take the lead and continue with orchestra. His satisfaction with the social aspects of orchestra is reason enough for him to stay in it.</p>
<p>You mentioned that your son had an interest in computer programming…are you familiar with the USA Computer Olympiad? ([Programming</a> Contest](<a href=“http://www.uwp.edu/sws/usaco/]Programming”>http://www.uwp.edu/sws/usaco/)) This EC activity is something my techie son really enjoys, so maybe your son may have some interest? Here’s also hoping that the after school club sparks an interest that he could really run with…</p>
<p>Obviously. No one said otherwise. But the OP’s kid has just declared that he does NOT want to give up this activity. He said he wants to continue. The OP has made it clear that if he wanted to quit he could. </p>
<p>It seems to me that a lot of people are projecting their own feelings about their early music experiences onto this kid and assuming that he MUST REALLY want to quit, because they did (or their kid did). </p>
<p>Why not do him the favor of believing that he has conveyed what he actually wants to do at this point? Perhaps he will change his mind later–in either direction.</p>
<p>Colorado_mom, it depends on how one defines “really making progress.” Obviously that will depend on the student. I think that one reason that a lot of lackadaisical players who never take private lessons end up languishing at the bottom of the school orchestra and never really get into it is that they haven’t experienced the satisfaction and magic associated with being in a good group of motivated musicians who are working hard together to create something very good. Lack of motivation breeds more lack of motivation. Clearly, this doesn’t mean that every kid has to be a virtuoso to derive satisfaction from playing an instrument, but for most a certain level of mastery must eventually be developed for them to really get ongoing pleasure out of playing.</p>
<p>“He continued in the orchestra, but has always been at the bottom. He doesn’t practice and I have stopped the nagging. I believe that if he really had the interest, that by this time in his violin career, he should have the self-discipline and motivation to practice on his own.”</p>
<p>My own experience --with myself as well as my own kids – is that often kids will tell us what they think we want to hear. This can occur even if parents don’t directly tell kids what the parents want the kids to do. Sometimes the parents themselves don’t know how invested they’ve been in a kid’s continuing with an activity.</p>
<p>From what the mom said in the first post, sounded like her son enjoyed only the social aspects of orchestra, but wasn’t demonstrating a strong interest or passion in playing the violin. It’s very possible that some activity exists that the son can enjoy doing for the pleasure of doing the activity itself as well as the friendships that develop with it. If the son finds such an activity, the mom won’t have to nag him to develop the skills related to it.</p>
<p>…From what the mom said in the first post, sounded like her son enjoyed only the social aspects of orchestra, but wasn’t demonstrating a strong interest or passion in playing the violin…</p>
<p>Northstar, What’s wrong with that? If the kid likes the company and the director doesn’t mind having him? Maybe musical kids are compatible with him, intelligent but not overly competitive? If and when he finds other places to hang, I doubt that mom can make him stay in the orchestra.</p>
<p>What’s wrong with it? The mom said it as well as I could:</p>
<p>“So, it is time to plan out course schedules for next year. I told him that, unless he is committed to practicing (which he never does), then he really shouldn’t continue in the orchestra. The other kids keep progressing, and it really isn’t fair all around.”</p>
<p>It’s no more OK for a kid to be taking orchestra and not practicing than for a kid to be in a team sport and not staying in shape. Orchestra is a group activity that is based on performance. Being in orchestra isn’t like playing a pick-up sport. </p>
<p>Someone who’s there only to socialize and isn’t bothering to practice their instrument is holding back the whole group.</p>
<p>I am a former high school violinist who was in several orchestras. Being in them was my main social outlet, and that was the main attraction of those groups for me, but I did practice because I didn’t want to let the group down. I would not have been content with being the worst violinist because I didn’t bother to practice. I would have been embarrassed if I had been in that situation, and my orchestra peers would not have been pleased with me at all.</p>
<p>Obviously, this kid is content for not getting a high chair and his orchestra director is content with having him around. If the director is fine with that who are we or mom to say to drop? If the kid is holding the group’s progress, wouldn’t it be the director’s job to tell him so?</p>
<p>School orchestras are typically great places for kids who don’t want to practice to hang out and have a good time. My kids’ high school orchestra seemed to have room for all types. The kids did a lot of social things-fundraisers, a trip to Austria, playing at the United Nations, trips to Disneyworld. I would say half of the kids were without lessons and did not practice. The director often would mute or rewrite parts for the less proficient or have other students work with them. Both of my kids often laughed about how the director would tell them to play louder (privately) in order to cover for the weak players. The group as a whole seemed fine with the less proficient players and the sound was not terrible. Kids with more musical aspirations played in one of the local university youth symphonies.</p>
<p>If he enjoys the group, let him stay. High school orchestra should be fun and a stress reliever. Some of the most popular kids in the school orchestra at my kids’ school sat in the back and had a wonderful time.</p>
<p>I will add- both of my kids played in the youth symphony and were good players. Speaking on their behalf, neither were ever bothered by the presence of the weak players in the high school orchestra. The director did a nice job of showcasing her best players during the concerts with solo parts and small chamber performances. </p>
<p>I can sort of see the team analogy but there is a difference-no score keeping or state championships. The better players with my kids group did allstate, summer festivals (my kids loved doing EMF, Brevard). The director also rewarded the better players by finding weddings and church events for the kids to be hired out for. The lure of money seemed to entice my son (as did the saying out of town weekends at allstate) to work some.</p>
<p>If this young man is part of a flexible orchestra, let him be. It could turn out to be one of his best high school memories; it was for my kids.</p>
<p>If your son likes being in the orchestra, I would say keep up the violin.</p>
<p>When and if he reaches the point that orchestra interferes with other things he wants to try (computer club? Science Olympiad? Quiz Team?) then he can reconsider.</p>
<p>Thanks, Consolation, for (re)clarifying the situation. And,yes, I am going to believe that my son has conveyed what he wants to do at this point. </p>
<p>Last night the orchestra performed an April Fools concert. They did some silly things while playing the last movement of Summer from Vivaldi’s 4 seasons (the wave, head bobbing, etc). My son had the most vigorous head bob on stage. At the end, he high-fived two other kids. Clearly, he is comfortable in this community and, as Iglooo has pointed out, that has great value in and of itself. While I was waiting for the concert to begin i saw a list of the kids who made honor roll on the wall outside the office. The only names I recognized were kids from the orchestra (ie none of my son’s video game-playing friends). So, even though he doesn’t seem to socialize with these kids outside of school, I think it is a good group to be around in school.</p>
<p>In this orchestra, the accomplished violinists are actually paired with the less accomplished players stand by stand (with the better players strategically placed on the outside ). Sometimes a kid will play the first violin part-sometimes the second. It is clearly meant to be a non-threatening experience that fosters improvement. So, yes, it does seem that the orchestra leader is willing to accept all who wish to participate- at least at this level. (may not be the same situation for the higher level orchestra),</p>
<p>That said, we are going to try to get a good teacher. The one he had before was very old and gruff. Not too encouraging and didn’t communicate well. In fact, I was inspired to give it a whorl ( i had played in high school), and took lessons from him for a short while. I found him very intimidating and stopped. I had remembered enjoying lessons when I was young, but this was just stressful. My son seemed to adjust to his style better than I did, but it certainly was not ideal. hopefully a more upbeat teacher will make the difference. And, even if he goes one more year and then decides to drop the violin, that is fine.</p>
<p>bogibogi, how did your son learn to program?</p>
<p>mommeleh, I sense that you are content with your son’s decision and I am very glad to hear that. I agree that a great teacher may be the motivation that he needs to really enjoy playing.</p>
<p>Like you, when I noticed that he had interest in programming, I bought him a few books. He decided that since he was reading the books anyway, that he would make the extra effort to study and become certified in that programming language. Apparently, you can study on your own and become professionally certified in various programming languages. Who knew? He also went to summer camp, took AP Computer Science and participates in the computer team at school. But his greatest joy has been participating in the USA Computer Olympiad (USACO). You just register and compete on the weekends and avail yourself to the training resources. There are various levels of programmers so it may be something worth looking into if that is something your son may be interested in. Please feel free to PM me…</p>
). Sometimes a kid will play the first violin part-sometimes the second. It is clearly meant to be a non-threatening experience that fosters improvement. So, yes, it does seem that the orchestra leader is willing to accept all who wish to participate- at least at this level. (may not be the same situation for the higher level orchestra),</p>