<p>My D was just deferred by Georgetown and the University of Chicago, two of her "reach" schools. So now she is taking a more serious look at the schools that have accepted her: Loyola Chicago, St. Louis University and Creighton. She is waiting to hear from Marquette but thinks it is pretty likely that she will be accepted there as well. She has visited all four schools and each has its pros and cons. What she really liked about the U of Chicago was its core curriculum because she is very undecided on a major/career path. The US News rankings aren't that much help with Creighton being ranked the number 1 regional university in the Midwest and the other three ranked in the mid range or lower for national universities. Her GPA is 3.9 unweighted, her ACT was 28 (never did well on standardized tests) and has the usual list of academic, athletic and community service ECs. Do any of these schools stand out for someone in her situation? Thanks!</p>
<p>I know a fair number of people from Marquette who have done quite well in business in the Chicago area.</p>
<p>I’m from Saint Louis, and know quite a bit about SLU. SLU has a great reputation in St. Louis itself, but probably is not that well known outside of the region. SLU is also located in a rougher area of the city. With that said, I have friends who go there who absolutely love it, and whenever I visit I get the feeling that kids there are very happy.</p>
<p>Well I live pretty near Creighton and am considering it myself. It really depends on what your looking for because obviously there is a substantial difference in the atmosphere between Chicago and Omaha (And a lesser extent St. Louis). But Creighton is a very good school. If you are considering a business major I would highly recommend it. I attended their annual Business Symposium. It is the second largest student led conference in the country and I learned a lot about the “feel” of Creighton. They place a very high emphasis on leadership and service, I would say even beyond most of the other Jesuit schools, and have some great opportunities for hands on service and leadership. Of course I am spekaing mostly about the business program since that is what I am familiar with.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone for your responses. No, she isn’t considering a business major. She is leaning more toward international relations/history/art history or chemistry. Yeah, I know, pretty diverse. I’ve tried to convince her to apply to some LAC but she likes larger schools in urban areas. I keep thinking of these four schools as very science/pre-med oriented. She has friends at Creighton who are pre-med/pre-pharm, and her father went to Loyola for undergrad pre-med and then St. Louis U for medical school. If she stuck with the chemistry major and considered pre-pharm I’d be fine with any of these schools but I wonder how they would be for someone so undecided and humanities leaning?</p>
<p>Most Jesuit schools are located inner city. Fairfield University in Connecticut is an exception. </p>
<p>That being said, they are all wonderful schools. All 28 of them. And they all have a Jesuit emphasis which is exemplified in their core curriculum. Some Jesuit schools are stronger in sciences and math and business than others. A double major in business and history is actually not uncommon and actually a really strong objective since employers want you to be able to think and write and communicate, not just crunch numbers and create marketing programs. </p>
<p>Saint Louis University is a fine school and its not in a really bad area, but not in a garden spot. Its mid town and that area is eclectic and changing…largely for the better. But Saint Louis has also been hard hit with economic woes this recession. Its on one end of the park and Washington University-Stl is on the other end…and SLU students can take courses at WashU and they have some joint programs as well. SLU has been aggressively recruiting outside of Missouri for some years and offering very good scholarships to do so. They have a HUGE endowment. And that absolutely stunning Cathedral on campus. </p>
<p>Creighton is a fabulous school as well but it depends on whether you like Omaha Nebraska or not. Its not my cup of tea. But I do know someone who was very high up at FBI who went there. </p>
<p>Marquette is a fine school, really strong in many areas with a new President (who came from UScranton), a wonderful basketball heritage and its in Milwaukee and feeds into Chicago for business. </p>
<p>You cannot go wrong with Creighton, SLU, Loyola Chicago, Marquette. They are well known enough nationally, being Jesuit schools, each with some basketball history of some renown (though Marquette is the best known). If it were me, it would depend on the vibe I got at a campus and whether your kid says, “This is me!” on campus. It has to be your kid’s decision, they have to own it. Parents are there to help guide them, but not decide for them. Of course finances can come into the picture as well.</p>
<p>My kid picked Fordham over Marquette and SLU (and several other really good schools). But its a very subjective decision process, there is not just one “right answer.” </p>
<p>Your D should put the waitlist/deferral/rejection letters behind her, focus on the future and be grateful for what she has. Congratulations to her! </p>
<p>Finally, some kids just want a different experience and to “get away” from home and high school. And parents should be as supportive of that notion as best they can. To that end, if she picks a school that you might not select, bury your feelings and hug her and congratulate her. Even if its Creighton over Marquette or Loyola. Because at the end of the day, a Jesuit education is worth its weight in gold. Trust me on that. </p>
<p>God bless and good luck to her.</p>
<p>Thanks sovereigndebt for your kind words and helpful response. You have stated many of the feelings I have and yes, I am well aware of the fact that a Jesuit education is very valuable as I graduated from Loyola Chicago’s School of Law and as I stated earlier, my husband is a graduate of both Loyola and SLU. I suppose that is why we encouraged her to apply to these schools in the first place. As for vibes, D is a big one on that. Unfortunately for her, the best vibes she got were at Georgetown and U of C. She does like Loyola a lot, mainly due to its Chicago location and its Rome Center so I have a feeling this may be where she ends up. I guess I wanted to see if anyone had a strong opinion that a number one rated regional university (Creighton) is far and away better than a number 119 national university (Loyola). Thanks again for everyone’s responses!</p>
<p>I’m a huge Creighton fan and alum and I’m from St. Louis where my dad and 2 sibs went to SLU so I’m biased, but I’d be hard pressed to say CU is better than Loyola. Both are great schools, but I’m not aware that Int’l relations are a strong suit of CU. As for it’s #1 regional ranking, I’m not sure I really understand how CU with its schools of law, medicine, dentistry qualifies as a regional university. Does it have to do with number of PhD granting programs,maybe? Omaha is an underrated city, IMO, but doesn’t quite compare to the 'Lou and pales in comparison to Chicago. Overall, I think this network of Jesuit universities are mostly quite excellent and your daughter can probably have a great experience at any of them. Sorry about G’town, but on the bright side I know that CU, Marquette and SLU give out a ton of merit aid.</p>
<p>I just thought I’d throw it out there, Gonzaga is a nice jesuit school in eastern washington. It has excellent school spirit from its top basketball team.</p>
<p>My dad has done really well out of Marquette. I also ended up taking Organic Chemistry at Loyola. i’ve also seen plenty of SLU, but unfortunately don’t know much about Creighton’s programs. I think Marquette is the clear front-runner in the group, just on my impressions from a visit, though I do think Loyola has a definite upper hand in location. I’m pretty sure they give you unlimited access to the el tracks. I’m a little biased against SLU because of my major. The biomedical engineering building way away from the center of the campus, and looks completely unwelcoming, with bars on the windows. Appart from that, though, the campus is super nice. At all the schools there’s definitely more of a feeling of being in the city, as opposed to Wash U which is more next to than in St. Louis.</p>
<p>You can’t really go too wrong here, though i’ll be honest, I can’t wait to get out of St. Louis and head back to Chicago after graduation.</p>
<p>@luvsgelato first let me make a disclosure - I’m a Marquette alumnus - but if your D is interested in international relations she should check this program at Marquette:
[Marquette</a> University Les Aspin Center for Government](<a href=“The Les Aspin Center for Government // Marquette University”>The Les Aspin Center for Government // Marquette University)</p>
<p>I’m sure she will be fine at any of the schools that have been mentioned.
Best of luck & Happy New Year!!!</p>
<p>Sidelines, I’ll let D know that international relations isn’t Creighton’s strong suit. Yes, these schools have given her a great deal of merit aid already which is nice because we probably aren’t going to qualify for any need-based aid.
Seahawks506, LOL thanks for the Gonzaga suggestion-yes I know it’s an excellent school, but at this point if I suggest yet another school to D, she will kill me.
DJEureka, D and I liked the SLU campus very much and thought everyone seemed extremely happy there and were very helpful and friendly. My husband is pushing for SLU mainly due to his fond memories of medical school and the fact that if D goes there, he will be down there quite a bit to visit Ted Drewe’s, oh, and D. But it’s interesting to hear that you can’t wait to leave St. Louis and get back to Chicago. I think Chicago is the big hook for D.
newsdrms, thank you for the link; I will show it to D. Happy New Year to you too!
As always, many thanks for everyone’s help!</p>
<p>You are most welcome. Remember, however, that international relations is a tough road to follow and highly competitive. There are other similar choices. Without knowing the stats its hard to recommend a school, but I understand that is private for her/you. </p>
<p>Its often wise to take a broad course of study in economics, history, political science…what some schools call IPE, and then if the passion and grades are there, pursue it at a graduate program like Johns Hopkins, Harvard, Yale, Duke, Georgetown, Chicago etc. </p>
<p>This is what most kids at Fordham do who are interested in that, plus they have amazing internships in New York with the UN, other NGO’s or official government offices, or Embassies/Consular offices.</p>
<p>George Washington University is another route. Elliott School of International Affairs. Have you looked there? I know someone there who is very happy, but also very exhausted! LOL.</p>
<p>If its truly a calling for her, then she needs to look at grad school placement stats if available. Fordham, btw, does EXTREMELY well in that regard, and also with getting Fulbrights, Truman, Boren and Cambridge Scholarships. FWIW.</p>
<p>@luvsgelato: My S is at Marquette for business. May I ask where you live? We are from NY and he now is feeling quite different there from the other “mid-westerners.” He loves the school and turned down offers from Fordham and other local schools because he felt MU could offer him more (especially $$$) but he can’t wait to come home on breaks and just be with his friends and family. I think your D has to go with where she is going to feel most comfortable socially as well. I suggest if she visits those schools again, spend time in the food areas where students are just hanging out. She might get a better flavor of the social atmosphere. Good luck to you both!</p>
<p>sovereigndebt: I wouldn’t say D is passionate about International Relations–she is so undecided and that is just one area that seems to interest her. I think she was more excited about it when she applied EA to Georgetown’s School of Foreign Service. Had she been accepted, (and she isn’t giving up complete hope) I’m sure she would have been very happy there. Her stats, as I stated in my original post, are pretty good: 3.9 unweighted GPA (it’s about 5.7 out of 6 on the weighted scale) top five percent of her class, 28 on the ACT (not great but not extremely terrible), four years varsity tennis, student government (leadership positions) NHS, student ambassador, hospital volunteer etc. She needs a school that offers a strong, broad core so she can find her niche.
riogemini: We live in southeastern WI. This actually puts Marquette at a disadvantage because D wants out of WI, badly. D plans to revisit Loyola again on the admitted student day in the spring and possibly the other three if she hasn’t narrowed it down by April. We visited Loyola in the fall of 2010 so she really needs to visit again. The other three were visited in Sept. and Oct. of this year. She would like to do overnight visits and will if time permits. Thanks for all the helpful replies!</p>
<p>Okay…a couple of points. First, its a pleasure to help kids like yours, because I get very tired of the endless “help I’ve fallen and I can’t get up” threads from kids with uber stats, when what is really going on is a brag sheet. Blagh! Elitism. Can’t stand it. Moving on now…</p>
<p>Second, her grades are excellent and if its a tough school with lots of AP’s that will be a better indicator of success in college than the ACT or SAT. The ACT score of 28 is good, but not excellent. Georgetown is ground zero for politics and I mean that in the worst way. They have tons of legacy pulling their chains, tons of high powered execs at beltway bandits pulling their chains and then politicos, and then “appointees” from government agencies, top that off with athletes, and kids with stats that are gynormous and it makes for some very tough admission standards, regardless of what they say in glossy brochures. Its a fine school. I actually have some experience with the process at their Walsh= foreign service school (can’t get into that here). Its an amazing program, but its almost impossible to get in without a hook. So while I applaud her efforts, she needs to really get grounded. Right here, and right now. Don’t want to burst a bubble, but it is what it is. Daughter’s boyfriend got waitlisted there and he finished at Fordham Summa Cum Laude and Phi Beta Kappa. So you are in good company! LOL. So turn the page and move along. If they happen to come in for you, fine. But please don’t be holding onto it…its a factory of waitlisted people, much like WashU does. That’s the cold hard truth.</p>
<p>Next, getting away from home is certainly a legit ambition for kids. But being from SW Wisconsin, and picking Loyola over Marquette for that reason seems a bit like a coin toss. Not a problem. But just make sure she is focused on faculty and programs and campus VIBE (for her, not others), and less on prestige and such.</p>
<p>You might want to suggest she throw in an application by common app to Fordham, RD. Deadline is January 15. I can’t recommend it enough, and their IPE program is fabulous. I recommend the Rose Hill campus (gorgeous and gothic!), its larger (5,000 undergrads) than Lincoln Center and more of a classic college experience. Just a thought.</p>
<p>Creighton is ranked number one regionally, which is the mirror image of Villanova. Fordham and Marquette are in the really tough National rankings and go up against some of the big state schools and really big and elite private schools. Its not so much a comparison of rankings because its apples and oranges sort of in that sense, but more a comparison by YOU (and her) of programs, faculty, vibe, opportunities and grad school admissions. No one right answer and everyone is different. If she picked Creighton, I would say, “God be with you and congratulations!” In other words, nothing wrong with that at all. If she wants out of Marquette because its too close to home and too many of her high school friends are going there, I get that. Meeting new people in college is part of the experience. </p>
<p>I do recommend visiting campuses. For your information, most of these schools do a special weekend visit for ACCEPTED students, which is night and day from the tour of looky lous. Fordham does this, captivated by a rousing speech from Fr. McShane at the end. He is a “helluva closer!” He sold us, big time.</p>
<p>Its perfectly normal for kids to be confused and moody and change their minds every hour. Tell her its okay and just go with the flow. Be calm, relaxed and as focused as possible, but also flexible and open to ideas. Its her decision and she has to own it. Been there, done that. (And it resurfaces at grad school selection time too! LOL.)</p>
<p>If she picks Loyola Chicago and says, “this is me!” So be it. </p>
<p>Some kids are more home-bound than others. Some have more wanderlust in their spirits. My D saw that in spades at Fordham. Local kids who lived in a bubble and never ventured away from home and never want to. But Fordham also has kids from all over the place (very diverse campus!), and even some local kids who travelled extensively with Fordham (South America, China, Europe, Russia etc.) and who bolted for a new world after graduation. Nobody is the same. Some kids embrace change, some kids don’t. For us it was transforming and that is very healthy. But we don’t have expectations any of our kids will settle down, three blocks away and do the same things we have always done with the same people/relatives forever. (I always say, “are you kidding me?”) That is the definition of being narrow minded and bucolic. But if they settled in a city that was within a day’s drive that is good by me! LOL. </p>
<p>And the final final comment? No school is perfect. Doesn’t exist. Don’t go looking for it. Every school has “issues” somewhere in the closet. Every dorm has drama and every freshman gets homesick, the coodies, and even the flu! Its part of the process. And there is always a round of kids who want to transfer out and find greener pastures at some big name school. LOL. We went through some of that and our advice was wait until March and see how it goes…and learn to deal with issues…dance with the one who brung ya! And it all worked out great.</p>
<p>Its nerve wracking and anxiety filled and such. But you make a decision, pull the trigger and then I advise to close the other books, embrace your selection and never look back. “When you get to the Y in the road? Take it!” (Yogi Berra-ism)</p>
<p>Well sovereigndebt, you might be happy to hear that D, who has been quietly working in her room most of the morning, informed me she applied to Fordham and, to please me, the LAC we’ve been talking about, Middlebury. So much for her saying “no more college applications!!! I’m done!!!” She probably is, now.</p>
<p>Happy New Year. Just in from a wonderful party with some fabulous people. I am glad she applied to Fordham and hope that works out for her well. There are no guarantees, of course. I’m just a parent and don’t work there. </p>
<p>Middlebury is also a wonderful school, but it tends to be focused primarily on the languages and is fairly liberal. Fordham is very middle of the road. </p>
<p>Ping me if you/she needs any help in discussing any programs. Fordham’s faculty is awesome. But a warning: come prepared to work. You will work extremely hard there, its not a school for people who don’t like reading and writing a lot papers/thesis. </p>
<p>Best of luck to her.</p>
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<p>Only 8 percent of Middlebury students major in languages.</p>
<p>Thanks for that, I was unaware. Its a very highly vaunted department, used by the DOD as well. Middlebury is a great school and a special place, a classic Northeastern Liberal Arts College. :-)</p>