First I read SIL as Sister in law so I was confused but now I get it. The annoying part is that this is “in law” not their own daughter! I mean going halfsies for bike is one thing but expecting his in-law to pay for the trip? I hope my DS will marry up (LOL) but he wouldn’t be so shameful to expect his in-laws to pay their vacation or trip.
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TBH, it’s kinda gutsy just to ask your in laws to go halvsies on your SOs birthday present! And to expect a trip, too? One they did not suggest? Thinking about more than one son or daughter in law in the extended family, I could see this not being an issue if the kids who feel really financially responsible asked, but those are the ones who would not ask, it would be the still learning kids, though I cannot imagine even those kids asking!
@Hoggirl your friends have been complicit in, inadvertently creating this monster, probably mostly by not seeing how he learned to think, sooner. Now they have to figure out a way to push him into independence without having an awkward, never forgotten, conversation that causes hard feelings. How do they tiptoe away from this cliff edge and lure him to follow?
We have done a few trips with our kids and in laws did a few trips with us kids. With the in laws it was kind of mandatory family joy time, except our family did not enjoy spending that much time with them, they were prickly & someone was always in trouble, plus they invited other non-family participants who annoyed everyone. I did not mind allowing them to pay for those couple of trips as I would not have chosen to go on any of those trips and would have preferred not to go. I think we ended up paying for all meals and excursions/outings/adventures.
With our kids, when we invite them on a trip, we tell them to get there on their dime and expect no costs once they are there. Hopefully it’s no pressure, different kids & families have come different years & seasons of life. It is a bit weird now for the one single kid when the rest are married with little kids, trips with little kids are not fun the way they are when you can be selfish.
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As soon as our son had a paycheck, it gave him great pleasure to reach for the bill and say, “I’ve got this.” It’s become a game between him and DH to see who can pull out his credit card fastest at the end of the meal. One time, our son excused himself during the meal to visit the restroom but, instead, found our waiter and paid the bill so, when we were done eating, he could casually say, “Let’s go. I took care of it.” DH just growled, “That’s cheating!”
We gifted our son with a smoker/grill when he bought his house last summer and are looking forward to him making meals for us when we visit in August, no credit cards involved, but I’m sure the two of them will find a way to make grilling competitive, too.
I just wish we had more opportunities for this insane one-upmanship.
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Not unknown, although at least our SiL didn’t ask me to subsidize a trip, too. He asked me about buying a costly item for our D or their baby. What? The baby is a decade away from being able to assemble/play with it and D has neither the time to do it or any place to put it. Their home is bursting at the seams already because she’s unable to dispose of anything without great angst. I declined and cited the reasons just stated, although perhaps in a tiny bit nicer way.
In addition, we gave them a large present earlier this year that we said was their combined anniversary/birthday/Easter/Halloween/Christmas/etc. gift. SiL may be surprised when he receives only a card on his birthday.
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I agree that they have created this situation and extricating themselves from it is now going to be difficult. Both the husband and wife grew up poor as church mice, and he has done very well financially (she was a SAHM). They have always done a lot for their daughters, and I think much of that has to do with the fact that they grew up with precious little in the way of “extras.” So, they have given the daughters lots of extras along the way. The challenge is it’s never stopped, and now it is honestly kind of expected, I fear.
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I love everything about this.
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@somemom - I really like this approach of, “Get yourselves to _________, and we will cover everything from there.” I think it makes it easier for an adult child to say, “No,” if it’s not something they are interested in doing. I think it’s much harder to turn down if they pay for the getting-you-there cost and lodging.
“Mandatory joy time,” is an interesting description. It sounds as though you would have preferred not to have gone at all. I don’t ever want to feel the need to manipulate our ds and/or any future family of his into spending time with us, and that is what your situation sounds like on your in-law trips.
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Your “one-upmanship” term reminded me of a time when our workplace (about 12 ppl) went for lunch and our manager (Asian American) said he’d pick up the tab, our server said “oh it’s been taken care of by someone.” And he was like “huh? who?” “Anonymously.” But he knew who it was because there was his friend in the same restaurant (another Asian American). But they were a party of two vs party of 12! So our manager said “no they can’t do that, let me pay ours and theirs!” and the server didn’t know what to do. He ended up paying for everything eventually but when I told the rest of the staff “aww that’s Asian thing, they fight over who pays the bill,” and everybody was like “I wanna have such Asian friends!.” I felt bad because “I” was the one who invited the manager and I was going to pay for him and for the staff. 
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When we go out to dinner, parents pay almost all the time. I think only one of our kids has ever treated us to dinner. This same kid would at least treat for coffee or something, even when he didn’t make much money. To date we have paid almost everything while on vacation with our “adult” children, almost all the time, when we are on family vacations.
However, next week I am going on vacation with my son and his SO, because they want to go and I have a car. We are splitting the cost of lodging. I may or may not pay more than my “fair share” of things, but I have done quite a lot for them lately, so won’t feel bad either way.
Yeah - that’s a little different than the kids coming to visit the parents and the group goes out to eat. No, we wouldn’t pay for that though I wouldn’t expect them to pay for my hotel and stuff. The situation just seems weird in my personal frame of reference because my kids rarely ask for anything from us. It’s like pulling teeth for ideas for bdays and such even as little kids.
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Good question. We have done pretty well over time but were pretty careful with spending. Over time, as my income rose, we have been less careful. We have paid for most everything until recently. ShawSon is a co-founder of a venture-backed startup that is doing well. So his salary is pretty decent and he does not like things so has been saving money on his co-founder’s salary. More importantly, he has a significant slug of equity in the firm whose value (on paper) probably exceeds the net worth of most CC parents. After the next round of funding, it will be much higher. And he has a new GF who is also an elite B-School grad and probably has a higher salary than he does (but doesn’t have the equity). I’d guess that what they make combined (ignoring equity) is what I make in a bad year (like 2020). ShawD is an NP and is pretty well paid but makes less than her brother. Her BF is a software engineer at one the the big tech companies (he left another big tech company to join this one). Probably 8 years into his career. I’d guess the two of them do quite well also. Both have volunteered to pay for things and ShawSon made a show of taking me out to dinner one of the last times I visited – he had just completed a financing round. So, we’re mostly still paying for stuff but they are volunteering,. Will have to figure out how to finish the transition.
Over time, I would expect my income to decline a bit. I would expect ShawSon and GF’s to exceed mine after a few years. If ShawSon’s venture (or a subsequent one) hits a home run, I’ve asked him to help out his sister a little. He recognizes how fully we have supported the two of them. When he was about 7 or 8, my wife dissuaded me from buying a house in a town I love in the Canadian Rockies in part because she would have to take care of it and in part because it would have stretched us financially. ShawSon came up after we had discussing it and said, “Don’t worry Dad. Someday I will buy you your mountain house.” I don’t need it now, but he has a very generous spirit.
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Most of the time everyone takes turns paying the bill. We pay for our parents, we pay for our kids, our parents pay sometimes and the kids pay sometimes. It works out in the end and I think everyone feels fair.
My husband’s brother is the highest wage earner. I feel bad because I think sometimes it’s expected (by his wife’s parents and his kids) that he pay all the time. It’s become kinda a competition with my mil, when they would go out to dinner with my bil, sil and her parents, my mil would call out that she and my fil were on one bill. To force the sil’s parents into paying because they NEVER did and ordered the most expensive item on the menu.
And the sil’s parents expected my bil to pay for vacations and all this stuff. It got ridiculous.
My mil feels that the sil’s parents take advantage of her son.
But I think in the end it’s about respect and assumptions.
My kids love us, they want to see us. They have limited vacation time and have great salaries. When they go on vacation, I’m sorry to say that at this point in their lives, they want to vacation with their significant other and not the parents. Not right now.
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My sister will host whenever people visit her, and it would include going out and food/drinks at her house. I would try to pay while going to the bathroom. There was an incident when a casual friend visited her, after she had paid for the family of 4’s meals out and the housekeeper washed the whole family’s laundry, the friend used all of their deli meats to make sandwiches to take on the road. We just couldn’t stop laughing when she told us the story. She said, “the worst part was they were all her H’s favorite deli meats from NY.”(they were brought down from NYC by a good friend)
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Our 2 kids are in very different situations. D is married and she and SIL have great jobs (both are MBA’s). S recently left his job (in another country) living with us before starting grad school in the fall. We can afford to treat them and we do. They do appreciate it and are very aware that others are not in the same fortunate situation. We also treat my MIL whenever possible.
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@Hoggirl, in your friend’s situation, I think what they could have said to the son-in-law after agreeing to the bike (which they presumably did want to do) when he asked about going on the weekend trip, is just to say, “Thanks for inviting us, but y’all go ahead. It sounds like you’ll have a fun time, but we’ll stay home.” If he presses they just say, “I don’t think that’s really our thing, but it sounds like something y’all would like to do together. We’ll be happy to dog-sit.” They are under no obligation to go along with his idea. They just need to practice saying no gently.
And the next time they go out to eat if they don’t want to pay for everyone, just ask the waiter to split the check! They are making themselves into doormats. If they want to pay, be up front and maybe say, “This time it’s our treat.” They could even add, “You can treat us another time.”
If they want to give, then give freely. Generosity is a wonderful thing, but they don’t need to feel under the pressure to give.
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DH always wants to pay, whether we are with the kids and their families, his sis or his )(&*& moocher brother. He and sister will see who can grab the bill first, and younger s. does that too. Older s doesn’t seem to participate as often in the “grab the bill” dance, and both he and younger s make plenty of $. but older s is generous in other ways. We still pay their cellphone bills on our family plan. Its a bit of a family joke at this point.
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I have a funny story to share related to this. A few months after our son turned 21, he and his godparents and DH and I were having dinner at a lovely restaurant on the Hudson that we eventually chose for his graduation dinner. The ambience and food were outstanding, and we were having the very best time. We started off with a round of gin and tonics and a sample of appetizers (we were testing the menu). Three amazing hours later, DH looks at the bill:
“Holy smokes, son! Did you have FIVE* gin and tonics?”
“I guess so. There were very good, so I just nodded every time the waiter asked if I wanted a refill.”
Refill? He may have been new to legal drinking, but we have no idea how he got that far in life thinking that cocktails were like soda. Perhaps that second one impaired his thinking. DH showed him how 5 x $12 had affected the bill–you know, just a little post-dinner math.
Important safety tip, kids: There are no free refills on cocktails.
Now, every time we go out, DH or I will say, “Watch those refills, son!”
*You’d think he’d be falling down drunk but, at 6’3" with a hollow leg, he was unphased.
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I think my son was @30 when he became independent. He had already switched his car insurance. Then it was his bank, then the cell phone. He didn’t want me to pay for his AAA, as it was included with his Geico. I asked him to include me on his Amazon Prime, and his reply was that he and (now) wife each have their own account, so they don’t see presents. I think he forgot that I’m still on his Netflix account. Yeah!!!
Forgot, he didn’t want to use my accountant. He does taxes himself.
My kids and husband are on my Amazon Prime. We all get free shipping and I never see what they’re buying. How would I do that?
look in the order history
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