Both our healthy kids know they will need to take care of their older brother with schizophrenia. But thanks to his 529 ABLE account, which dies not count against his eligibility for SSI, he will have a substantial nest egg. My goal is that he won’t be a financial burden to them. We’ve set up a trust so he can inherit money from us and stay on SSI and Medicaid.
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Interesting that you guys see my suggestion to my son as an issue. I was probably a little terse so I’ll give a little context.
This came after a conversation where he was thinking that he could put some of the money he makes upon the sale of his company into the dynasty trust I have created. Since he and his family probably would not need the money he was gifting to the trust, his sister and her progeny would likely be the beneficiaries. He explicitly wanted to “pay back to the trust” because he recognizes all we have done for him to put him in a position where he can be successful, both in terms of finance, guidance, and sheer effort (he is a brilliant kid but is severely dyslexic and kids with that profile often have very different paths than his and I negotiated every year with the schools and his teachers on his behalf, as an example). My understanding was that he can’t contribute to the trust because he, like his sister, is a beneficiary of the trust – or rather, the asset protection aspects of the trust would be damaged if he did so. So, I suggested that if he does really well (and with some probability, he could receive a lot of money), he give his sister some money to make her life easier. We were not talking about lifetime support but a gift to buy a nicer house or help her pay for her kids college (if the money I saved hasn’t already done so).
At the moment, the kids live together and really have each other’s backs, which is heartwarming for us.
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I really think the relationship between Shawbridge’s children is delightful. Who would t want their children to be close?
My parents always helped out my sister the MFA with $, but never had good advice to help her be successful in the arts. Every so often, I send some $ and I pay for all family occasions. I asked my son how he felt to continue this, and his response was just to leave her $ outright.
Totally different if this is initiated by the son. Thanks for clarifying!
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Son is about to move to another state for his first post college job. He says he bought a car but in reality, I traded in an older one and gave him the proceeds (offered to just give him the car but he really didn’t like it) and he financed the rest. Good start as it’s in his name, his insurance, etc. He took care of the apartment lease without our involvement at all (worked with a rental agent that he found). Was very nice to not have to be involved. He asked how to go about getting more credit and I explained he could call the bank to increase the limit on his credit card. He had never heard of that and they bumped him from 500 to 2500 without blink.
Still doesn’t offer to pay for dinner or greens fees or beers afterwards but that may come later. Truthfully, I enjoy doing things for my kids. And I like suggesting to them that one day they’ll be lucky enough to be able to do the same. That actually provides me with a lot of joy now. He’s basically self sufficient. D will be another story as she’s an aspiring actress. Will be a long time before she can support herself. She’ll be willing to do all the waitressing and other jobs while auditioning, but as a parent who is able to help, I won’t let her live in an unsafe place (that’s relative) if I can help. That will be a fine line as I understand her dream, but have told her I have my own dream which doesn’t necessarily include paying for hers in my retirement. We’ll have to come to some sort of agreement before too long. She understands that but she’s still in school so it’s not real yet.
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This is probably why your inlaws were so wealthy. Too cheap to pay for meals for you guys and too cheap to get a hotel on their own, lol. I’m kidding but only 1/2 kidding.
When we lived in Iowa and I was on bedrest with our first kid our families took turns coming to help us. My father came for a week and stayed at a hotel (even though we had room) because to him it was about us having our privacy and him not being a bother. He would come over every morning after my then husband went to the hospital. My inlaws never stayed with us ever because nor do they stay with my sister in law when they visit her because to them they like staying in a hotel because they then feel like they’re on an actual vacation. They probably should be the type to stay with her or us back then for money purposes but it’s their choice and was their choice.
As far as the original question in the post @Hoggirl I think everyone’s situations are different. Neither my parents nor my former inlaws would ever let us pay, even now. The rare exception is when we say “we’re taking you out for your birthday”. When my inlaws and parents were out with us together they would fight over the bill. Ugh that was actually the worst. When my son recently graduated HS and we all went to dinner, my ex and I split the bill and our parents let us. That’s the rare occasion when they do. Sometimes when I’ve hosted family here for something my father will call and tell me he wants to pay and to use his credit card when I pick up the food or tray. It’s not necessary he likes to be generous when he can with something like that. My parents can’t really travel anymore but until a few years ago if we went on family vacations, they paid. The only place my dad finally drew the line was if we wanted spa treatments we had to pay for our own. I think my brother’s ex wife used to go like every day and my dad finally realized we all have decent paying jobs and why should he pay for her to go to the spa for a daily massage or whatever, lol. As for my current mother in law, she wouldn’t pick up a finger to pay for anyone and expects everyone to wait on her hand and foot. My husband pays everything for her and then some. He’s an only child and she spends her money on such junk. There isn’t a lot of it left either and she’s getting to where she needs a caregiver to some extent so who knows what is going to happen next. Not looking forward to that - she’s already a bitter woman.
Now as for my kids. My 24 year old has been working since he was 18 and skipped college and does extremely well and I don’t expect him to pay for things for me when we go out. We’re going to Bahamas for winter break, minus him, and the food is outrageous where we’re going. I may decide I have to give my kids a daily limit, although I may not bother with that and instead just tell them they have a limit with drinks (meaning alcohol) because while my girls are not big drinkers in general, I know when on vacation it’s tempting to try new drinks than you might have in college since it’s all crap there or white claw type of stuff. So I’m still debating that since I am not spending $500/day on food!
But overall I think the behavior is modeled and kids learn from their parents. If that couple has an issue paying all the time at this point then they need to pull their kid aside and explain their situation. If they have the money then don’t worry about it. They can always reallocate their estate if they have more kids so that this one gets less, but at the end of the day if it isn’t going to make a big dent and may hurt the relationship then don’t worry about it.
When I graduated college it was the time of a huge recession and not a lot of jobs to be found. I took some crap job but was living in an expensive apartment that I had been in from school. My parents had to “subsidize” me. I never liked taking help from my parents, but it was important to my father that I be able to live on what I was making, as well as try to save something - because I did have prior savings.
I don’t know where he had read this or knew this from but the rule of thumb was that you shouldn’t pay more than 25% of your gross income on your rent/housing so going with that rule of thumb he took 25% of my annual salary and took the difference of that and my rent (not sure he included my monthly parking - I lived downtown Chicago back then) and gave me the difference each month. After 9 months in that job I decided to go to grad school and worked part time for 3 more months and then I was back on the family payroll lol. But the good news is once I graduated with my Masters I was able to get a job and no more subsidy. I then got engaged and smartly moved home to save money more than a year until we got married. My parents didn’t make me pay anything to live with them - I was a saver so no need and I even got my laundry done for free :). Haha I got lucky because my kids even do their own laundry here.
My point is, you’re doing right by your kids, but with the cost of green fees, it may be a long time before your son even thinks to pay for himself! 
My daughters get a monthly allowance at college. Their job is college and they’re not expected to work during school. If they do, that’s on them and money they get to keep. It doesn’t diminish what I give them. However, this year they’re both moving to apartments that are on the pricey side and more expensive than they needed to be in. So, just so they learn to appreciate what they do have and how fortunate they are, they deal was they had to pitch in from their summer earnings something towards their living next year. Well, one has an internship in Israel where she doesn’t get paid because the pay is basically room and board there. The other one gets paid. So I clearly can’t make the one pay anything towards hers and the other one I don’t even now what to have her pay. I want her to be able to keep a good chunk of her internship $ so she doesn’t feel like she worked for nothing as I want her to be able to save it or even buy something special if she chooses. But no clue how much she should chip in. 10% of what she makes this summer, more? $100/mo. Any thoughts since you help your daughter? Anyone else?
My D is moving off campus when she returns from co-op. Initially she was looking at really pricey apartments. We told her we’d contribute what we were paying for her on campus dorm and then anything above that was up to her. Within a week she found a sublet that was 1/2 the price.
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Oh, that’s actually not a bad idea. I can’t believe I haven’t thought of that. I can check what I’ve been paying for them for their sororities (which includes R&B) plus allowance and then use that as the starting point. I can’t believe I’m so dumb I hadn’t thought of that before.
The one who has the job can get a meal plan through her sorority which apparently is lunch only, but the food is really good. I have to see if that’s something she would do too because it beats eating out everyday as I made it clear to them that I’m not giving them money so that they can eat 21 meals/week out!
In both cases we have 12 month leases so that’s another issue but I think I have to just separate those months out from the total picture and just view those as sunk costs as I don’t expect them to be there next summer and I’m not one all gung ho about subleasing either if it’s someone we don’t know.
Thanks for that idea!! I should also look at the COA for the schools because that may have been more than the sororities and I don’t want them to get shortchanged by “me” that way either, lol.
With older S, his first summer internship away, I had him pay for everything. After the summer was over, since he did a good job managing his $$$ and tried to save what he could, I regifted a good portion of it back. The rent $$$ I believe. But he lived in a dump, so it wasn’t that much. I didn’t let him know beforehand. It was a surprise and he was very grateful.
The next summer he moved halfway across the country and had a good paying internship. He set up a budget based on living with a friend. That fell through at the last minute (friend moved in with GF) so he wound up at a more $$$ place. I paid the difference in rent.
Younger S hasn’t been in that situation yet. Both summers he was to intern in Spain and got cancelled due to covid. He was supposed to work for a professional soccer club. Instead he gets to work for our podunk city. Better than nothing, but I still feel terrible for him.
When our kids were still in undergrad school, we didn’t consider them adults who needed to transition into paying for things we paid for. They did have jobs for discretionary spending and books, but we didn’t expect them to pay for living expenses, cell phones and meals.
That being said, we did set a budget when both wanted to move off campus…and it was an amount not to exceed room/board costs at their colleges. Both found off campus places and understood they would be cooking meals, not eating out all the time.
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A tangent to this, do you pay attention to the differences with kids in different locales? For example, I have a kid nearby, some weeks we see them every day, other weeks less. There are pre-school grandkids, we help watch the kids sometimes. DD has only been working weekends, so often, even pre-covid, comes out to our place where there are lots of fun & different things to do, why not, she’s home all day with busy kids. We also sometime pay and take the kids to sporty things for their age, enrichment stuff.
We end up doing a lot of meals, a lot of grabbing something at the store when we are in town anyway. A big thing, like picking up an entire Costco list, we’d be reimbursed, grabbing a bag of fruit, we wouldn’t bother.
The nearby family definitely benefits, financially and emotionally, from the proximity. The far away kid, 1-2 day drive, would give anything to have that same experience with their toddler, but it depends on jobs availability.
If you are participating and helping a local kid in so many small ways, do you try to balance that with gifts to the others? I am sure when the faraway little one comes of age to do enrichment stuff, we will pay for some, but I am not sure how else to balance the imaginary scales in a natural way.
These are not the kinds of expenses you pay for your young newly independent adult, but the kind of local give & take that just naturally happens.
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I have a dear friend that continues to pay for almost every thing for her adult daughters; she has the money, so can do what she wants. The girls are both in their thirty’s and about to be married; it will be interesting to see how that plays out.
One of the girls has a fully furnished Manhattan 2 bedroom apartment that mom and dad pay for; daughter has a nice job that she has been at for 10+ years. My friend will brag that daughter sent her beautiful flowers for her birthday with her own money; one would hope a 35 year old would use her own money! 
Sounds likes she and her future husband are looking for a new place as this one doesn’t allow dogs; mom said they will keep this apartment so when anyone visits, they will have a place to stay.
I do consider some of the money I spend on my 27 year old daughter, who has a good job and makes lots of money, a way of giving her some of her future inheritance now. We have plenty, live frugally, and I am glad to “gift” things to my daughter (easier to pay for stuff than to legally give her a sum of money). She also lives frugally and is genuinely appreciative of what we pay for.
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@somemom we have one kiddo far away and one closer by. Fair is not always equal. We do different things for each of these kids. They don’t keep track and neither do we…it all comes out in the wash eventually.
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Thought of another example:
Dh and I are going to visit ds1 and wife later this month to check out their new house along with DIL’s parents. We bought tickets to a baseball game as a treat for everyone. We often lose the pick-up-the-check game with these people (and even our DIL, who has been known to intercept the check way before it arrives at the table!) so this is an easy way to attempt to even things out. The first time we met I bought us all a food tour experience at various restaurants for the day after Thanksgiving because they wouldn’t take any money for the Airbnb they got for themselves and us. That was such a hit!
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I paid for my kids’ private school form preschool to 12 and their college educations. Before they graduated from college I paid for every vacation they came on and that included their SOs. At this point, D1 makes more money than me and D2 just graduated from the law school. When we go on vacations or go out to dinners, unless it is someone’s special occasion, D1 and I take turns in picking up the tab. Recently when we went away, D2 asked if she could chip in for our Airbnb rental. D1 said, “When you get your first paycheck. Enjoy it while you can.”
For my 60th birthday, my kids planned an HI vacation for us. I said, “I assume it is my birthday present.” D2 looked at her sister and D1 said, “Of course.” I could have paid for the vacation, but I wanted my kids to put out a bit for me every once in a while. Privately I asked D1 what was D2’s share and I paid for it.
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Honestly, I think it all balances out in the end. I have 2 brothers and each of our needs are different. 2 of us live near my parents and 1 of us is out of town. I have 4 kids, the other brother nearby has 2 and the out of town one has one. My kids are the oldest, but I’m the middle child and only girl. My parents give each of them/us the same amount for our birthdays every year. Growing up we had different needs, went to different colleges so the costs were different. They never tried to equalize it nor do I do that with mine. Both my brothers went to law school and one also has his MBA. I went to grad school. My parents paid for all of it.
I have never resented when/if my parents have done more for one brother than the other and they’ve never resented if they’ve done something for me, or taken my family on a vacation. We just didn’t grow up that way or being jealous of one another. When my parents die they can leave their money to anyone they want. I don’t have a right to it any more or less than one of my brothers or any equally. It’s their choice. My parents don’t owe me anything. So many kids think their parents owe them or that they’re entitled to something and I think my parents have been generous to my kids and me through the years that they don’t owe me anything. What they do is out of love not duty. Since I have 4 kids also my brothers don’t say my kids are getting more than theirs and my parents aren’t readjusting their estate plans to give my kids less because I have more kids. It just is. So yes, my brother’s kid who is in LA probably has less spent on her because she’s there, but I don’t think she’s really thinking about it. I certainly didn’t when I lived in Iowa and my one brother was here.
@thumper1 You’re dead on. Fair isn’t always equal. Nor does it have to be. I’m so happy you said that they don’t keep track and neither do you. I couldn’t have said it better. I just reviewed the COA for my twins schools this year and one is 50k more than the other. I’m not making a note that when I die, I’m dinging the one and giving her 50k more for that year. My son also picked a really expensive school that is likely also 50k more than the one. So does that mean she gets 100k more for this year? I better not forget my oldest who didn’t go to college at all and probably saved close to 180k by not going. How does that fit in? I don’t know any parent that keeps score, or kid. I sure hope not. Well actually, every so often my twins will make comments in comparison to each other getting something and I just say ok, I’ll just fix it by giving a lesser share when I die, lol. It balances out in the end for sure and they will all be fine. My bigger issue is having to make the 4 of them trustees and them opening their big mouths to their father.
@oldfort THIS!!! You sound exactly like my dad and the parent I hope to be as my kids grow into adults. Teach them generosity and appreciation now, they will grow up that way and show kindness and generosity back to others. Your daughters are very lucky and I am sure they know it!
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Our view is that our kids are on our books until they graduate from college, then they are on their own. So any money they make in college tutoring or in an internship while in college, they can keep, Our oldest just graduated and is moving to a very expensive city. We would be willing to help by subsidizing her rent if it meant the difference between her living somewhere safe vs. not so safe, but don’t think we’ll need to do that, as she has calculated how much rent she can afford based on her starting salary and is planning to room with friends. We still plan on paying for vacations they take with us - it’s important to me to still be able to have time together and most young people starting out have limited time off plus limited savings so don’t want $ to be a factor in whether they can join us or not.
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Back in the dark ages we also had that rule of thumb. Rent/mortgage should not exceed 25% of gross income and total debt service should not exceed 33% of gross income. It was a way to determine if prospective borrowers would be able to repay their loans. When you consider how much taxes, utilities, food, transportation (gas, parking, vehicle insurance and repairs), medical, clothing, and other necessary living expenses can total, even that rule of thumb may not leave much - if anything - for savings. Before our kids went to college, we ran through several possible budget scenarios to show them how this might work out.
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