<p>You're right, it's not the same. My family is a middle class, suburban professional family with a decent income... however, the $40,000+ a year is a huge strain on our resources. You and your "ghetto living family" would have gotten full aid from A/E if you had applied and gotten in; the middle class gets the least help because we appear to be able to afford it, while the "ghetto living families" who are living in true poverty are, understandably, given much more aid.</p>
<p>"If they don't make it in, they obviously were unqualified."</p>
<p>No. Andover and Exeter students are competing ONLY with each other in the Ivy League admissions. We are not put against public school, magnet school, or home school applicants. We are not even put against the student from second tier BS. We are competing with the best of the best boarding school students, and if we don't get in, this does not mean we were unqualified, it means we weren't the top of the top of the top.</p>
<p>To the OP:</p>
<p>For the record, I go to a private (prep) school, although by no means an A/E/D, possibly because of location, and to control costs (and it hasn't been a boarding school in nearly 8-9 decades)
Although schools may say they are need blind, it is often not the case as you mentioned all the strains your parents still go through.</p>
<p>Also, I hope I did not offend you- my initial post was rather harsh, but as I said, I like to play devil's advocate. Being from a small (TINY) school, I can certainly relate to the imposibility of schedules.
Seeing how some people are taking 7 or 8 ap's their senior year kind of makes me sick- my school only offers 2, and you can take a maximum of 2 electives. Thus, my schedule for next year results in 6 classes (but, we do have this amazing mentorship program that I believe more than makes up for that).</p>
<p>Let's get the facts straight. New England preps--and Andover especially--are much much more rigorous than virtually any public school. Sure, at the low end of the prep spectrum and the high end of the public spectrum, the differences are negligible but for the most part the difference is astouding. </p>
<p>Now, there's as pervading sense of public school self-righteousness on these boards that argues that prep schools CAN be over-rated and public schools CAN provide quality education. Very true--but let's curb the excesses of pride in the interests of veracity: prep schools are essentially better. And in my personal opinion I believe Andover in particular is more rigorous than any public school in the nation. This is not to say Andover grads are smarter than every public school grad in America. No, far from it. This is not to say the smartest student at Andover is the smartest in the world--but hey, he's pretty damn good nonetheless. </p>
<p>RE: the original topic. The numbers plunge to the top colleges experienced by preps is indicative of a deeper problem with the college admissions system. I don't know if the OP knew Andover's 07 well, but if he/she did, he/she would realize that probably nearly half of the, say, Harvard acceptees were unqualified--or, at the very least, were given admissions spots over more qualified Andover students. There's a saying at Andover that no one gets into Harvard these days unless you're 1). legacy 2). a genius or 3). black. As unpleasant and politically incorrect as that may be, the recent trends support this assertion. </p>
<p>Being qualified--academically--isn't enough anymore. We play a different game. And for the record, Andover students get the same crap every other student does.</p>
<p>This is silly. </p>
<p>Fact: The top private schools, day and boarding, get 35% of their grads into ivies plus Stanford and MIT. Another 30% go to top 20 colleges. Applicants from these schools have a HUGE advantage, not because of the school but because who most of them are. They are wealthy, connected children of well educated parents who have had every opportunity since birth and come from high IQ families.</p>
<p>Fact: It is not the top 35% from the private school getting into the ivies, while they must be good students, most are legacies, URMs or athletes or very rich.</p>
<p>Fact: Top schools reject most vals from public schools. They accept good prep school vals.</p>
<p>Fact: These connected kids will also have the best chance at elite jobs when they graduate from ivies because of their position in society.</p>
<p>Fact: It's about money being power in America and prep schools are full of the offspring of the power elite.</p>
<p>xGods_Favoritex: Yes, I saw 07's Harvard admittees and was [generally] shocked. I also saw who was put on the waitlist / rejected and that in itself spoke volumes.. some of our top kids were rejected while the sports buffs were given pretty little scholarships.</p>
<p>We do, indeed, play a different game.</p>
<p>The question is: why do we put ourselves through it?
My answer would be, for the love of hard work and for the feeling after you finish another trimester at one of the best secondary schools in the world.</p>
<p>But... will this decision hurt us in the end?? </p>
<p>And why can't the college admissions officers be called out on this?!</p>
<p>I really hate this outsider notion that prep schools exist only for America's power elite...</p>
<p>An excerpt from Andover's constitution: to bring "youth from every quarter." And that means something to us.</p>
<p>Prostudent, you really don't get the system. Call them out on it? They know what they are doing and why. There would be no financial aid if not for legacies and athletes. Their diversity efforts look good in pics, blacks, hispanics and native americans smiling with the 70% of the student body who is still their traditional, white, rich student.</p>
<p>Xgods, like colleges the top schools have good aid money. Some very smart middle income are taken care of. But big aid kids are more likely to be URMs or athletes. Yes, there are families who drive Hondas into the ground and pay for private school, but there's a lot more mercedes drivers counting on their local public.</p>
<p>Well, I assume we do it for the experience--and some kids do it because they genuinely think an Andover education helps get you into Yale. </p>
<p>"Will it hurt us in the end??" Hurt is a touchy word to define in your sentence but I sure hope not. At the end of the day, Andover gives you something more than an acceptance letter to a fancy colelge, and that something else does not hurt--quite the opposite in fact. </p>
<p>I really hope college admissions officers are called out on it. But I believe, like I mentioned in my first post, that it's indicative of a problem not with colleges toward just prep school but colleges toward everyone. Qualified kids get turned down all the time for less qualified ones but it just seems so shocking when it happens at Andover. But hey, philosophically colleges have a right to define qualified as they please lest we all turn into Canadians...</p>
<p>collegekid: My issue had to do more with your--and this is shared by others, certaintly--perception that more rich kids=better Ivy numbers, in simplest terms. Correlation does not equal causation and I'm trying to say there's more to Andover than a 1,000 spoiled trust-fund babies.</p>
<p>So let me get this straight prostudent:</p>
<p>The 50th percentile kid at Andover or the like is more qualified than 75% of public school grads? Yeah, um, OK.</p>
<p>Do I think Mr. Private school will do better in his first year? Yes, he will likely have been better prepared and will have already done this for 4 years. However, there's more to college than freshman year, and the prep school kids don't seperate themselves from everyone else once at the colleges. So I don't think that they are superior or anything.</p>
<p>And while you claim Andover is a 'meritocracy', you should realize that mere awareness of those schools is very much tied to income. 40% of the school receives some sort of aid. That means that 60% can afford paying 160 grand on high school.</p>
<p>I can tell you that maybe 1% of my HS could afford that, and that's a maybe.</p>
<p>"The 50th percentile kid at Andover or the like is more qualified than 75% of public school grads? Yeah, um, OK."</p>
<p>Yeah, um, OK actually he's right big guy.</p>
<p>How many kids graduate from high school each year like 100,000?? (That's a low ball number since UCLA alone gets 20,000 applicants per year). That means that Andover kids are smarter than 75,000 kids which means that there are 25,000 high schoolers smarter than Andover grads.</p>
<p>Sorry, but no. Prostudent was being generous.</p>
<p>I agree. The average Andover applicant is in the top 2% nationally (per SSAT) when he is accepted. Then he gets even better. I think the 50% at Andover is top 1%.</p>
<p>Okay, this thread kind of makes me angry. There are lots of misperceptions on both sides. I don't think that colleges need to be "called out" on anything-- they know what's going on. Those of us who go to public school, and who were never given the opportunity to go to a private school, have CREATED a workload as hard as that at a private school. In addition to my 7 AP classes at school (the max we can take-- 8 periods in a day, and we need gym), I take 2 online courses with CTY and two courses at a local university. I am an officer in several clubs, I'm an athlete, and I have regional, state, and national awards. A LOT of public high school students do this for themselves; these are (I hope... :) ) the public high school students who get into Ivies and succeed at the same level as the students who experienced the rigor of a private boarding school. If colleges accepted as many boarding school students as you seem to feel they should, then more of these really driven students who have made the most of their opportunities would be denied spots at top colleges. Why? Because they didn't have THAT particular opportunity. </p>
<p>Besides, from what I hear from students from my HS who are currently at Ivies, compared to the workload the driven students here have, college is a breeze. That's probably an exaggeration, but the kids who come home for the holidays from top colleges certainly seem to be having fun there, doing well, and not having trouble with the workload there. Therefore... you don't NEED the kind of workload experience A/E/D gives you. :)</p>
<p>Many private school kids have been to top public schools but few public school kids have ever set foor on a private school campus. How would you know?</p>
<p>I meant 75% of public school vals. Which they aren't.</p>
<p>So, say the average HS graduating class is 200 students. That top student is in the top .5%; so 50% of Andover is in the top .5% of public schools. Sorry, I have friends on both sides of this debate(more Deerfield than Andover, but close enough), and the mid-group at Andover isn't at the same level of the vals I know. They probably have more homework at Andover, but these kids are being judged on what they can do. The kid who takes extra classes at the local CC in addition to his regular courseload shows more self motivation, which is not as needed at A/E/D, as that is supplied by the school and the competitive environ. The public schoolers that get in are likely more motivated, but less prepared and vice versa to the privates.</p>
<p>I think that there are many many more public schoolers who could be very successful at the Ivies and the like then are admitted. There may be more prep schoolers too.</p>
<p>And to the original poster - a top 20 school isn't a 'second tier' school.</p>
<p>sorry, collegekid... how would who know what?</p>
<p>Anything below A/E/D/C/S is really considered second tier.</p>
<p>And, I'm sorry but the students who drop out of Andover bc they can't handle the workload and go to public schools end up with perfect GPAs and endless ECs...</p>
<p>Public school kids more motivated? Perhaps. But have you even considered the facts that A kids only compete with A and E kids? There has to be some thinking behind that... and that thinking is most likely that Andover and Exeter kids are miles ahead, and comparing their high school experience with <em>MOST</em> public school kids' experience is simply ridiculous... the A/E/D kids will win nearly every time. Even if they are in the 50th percentile at A/E/D.</p>
<p>But every story I've heard has told me that kids from elite privates don't generally do any better than kids from publics once they're in college... </p>
<p>Yes, I do agree that, of course, the top elite privates are better, but a) I think they're a bit excessive; you don't NEED that much, and b) I think you're being a bit too elitist when you say that after those 5 schools, everything else is second tier. There are some really great private and magnet schools in NYC that I know of that send something like 50% of grads to Ivies and Ivy equivalents.</p>
<p>In addition, "perfect GPAs and endless ECs" guarantee nothing for us public school kids; for us, the whole thing is a crapshoot, and all of our guidance counselors and teachers know it. So, we try the best we can, and hope to get in somewhere good. For you, if you do do well and get good ECs and the like, you're pretty much guaranteed to get into a great school. As I said... for us, nothing (except perhaps an Olympic medal) guarantees that. Consider yourself lucky, and stop moaning that Ivy admit rates at your school have gone down; they're still probably about fifty times the Ivy admit rate at most other schools in the nation. :)</p>
<p>On another note (sorry for the frequent posting, but I feel the need to get my point of view out there. I really hope no offense is taken), I feel that several of your "Mommy" comments are a bit misguided as well. It's rare that either of my parents is home before 7:30 at night. If I can't find a ride home from school, I have to walk 2 miles to get back home in time to make dinner for my younger sister. I, too, do my own laundry, and have a lot of the personal independence and responsibility that you seem to feel comes with boarding school. If anything, I think that it's harder here, being in an area with no sidewalks or public busing. If I have to be somewhere at a time when my parents are unable to drive me, I have to find a ride from someone else or I have to take the responsibility for missing it. </p>
<p>I use myself only as an example of a public school student who works really hard. There are thousands of us who deserve, in my opinion, as much opportunity as you at boarding school have.</p>