WHY do you believe in God?

College Confidential Community
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<p>Heh, didn't even know this thread was still going.</p>

<p>pramirez184</p>

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if god had a creator, then that being would have a creator and there would be an endless string of higher creators

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<p>Yup, I've heard of something like that. And it's even more illogical.</p>

<p>So Authentic:</p>

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&& kyledavid, you stated God exist? again, how do you know this?

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<p>I wasn't quite stating that God exists -- I was offering a proof that refutes an idea of Christianity (that God has no beginning).</p>

<p>Regarding the Quinquae viae -- the logic of that is so flawed, it's unbelievable. Why? 'Cause it's full of non sequiturs. For example, "This causer is what we call God" is NOT the logical conclusion; it does not necessarily have to be God. The logical conclusion is "Someone or something is the original causer"; it may or may not have been God, or any god, or any being.</p>

<p>spooch:</p>

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nothing happens and it doesn't matter b/c your life was pointless anyway

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<p>That has to be one of the most ignorant comments I've ever seen. Who are you to judge the meaningfulness of people's lives? Honestly, I'm appalled at the audacity of such a claim.</p>

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So, in the end, you're better off believing that there is a God b/c the best that happens is you go to Heaven and the worst is nothing, while for the latter option the best is nothing happens and the worst is you're damned (literally).

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<p>That's one of the prime examples of how Christianity ropes people in -- by feeding on their doubt. If you doubt yourself, you succumb to the beliefs ("They just might be right -- I better believe!" and such). Very good tactic, but dirty nonetheless.</p>

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"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." ~C.S. Lewis

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<p>C.S. Lewis is attempting, and failing at, a sensationalist approach to his nonsensical and little-supported beliefs, and sadly enough, people gobble his words up as though they were lollipops and bubble gum.</p>

<p>getup01:</p>

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Maybe Susskind (father of string theory and biggest opponent to Steven Hawking) will present a beautiful but thrashing arguement to disprove God.

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<p>I think I'll check that book out, too -- perhaps I'll like it enough to direct others to it in discussions like this one.</p>

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<p>I personally actually found my belief in God, as just 3 years ago I was a pretty hardcore atheist and despised religion with a passion, but then realized how stupid/blind the arguments for it was........then through reasoning and general thinking I refound a stronger belief</p>

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<p>I so far have not found any argument for atheism to be stupid or blind.</p>

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<p>word, rootbeercaesar. that is the best and most important way to find religion. I am not the source of ultimate knowledge, but i think God would put much more resepct to that than someone how went through life believing something without question. major respect. Exactly how did you start to believe though? was it some kind of epiphany or just a gradual understanding?</p>

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<p>see, Susskind is a true athiest. hopefully after reading his book i will be able to actually understand the best proofs for atheism. still, i think that he will only generate more questions, but it will surely be a great read. so far i am through the preface!</p>

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<p>Well it was a general understanding, because generally I am/was a very avid reader of philosophy in general, and so i suppose when I was in the process of becoming a atheist the primary source of my atheist beliefs were various books I had read, with only a few books supporting the other side. Out of pure interest one day I ventured into a more religious side to sortof just see "what they say now" and eh, idk, after a while it just clicked sortof</p>

<p>Also kyledavid80, I think I may have said that in a misunderstood way. I meant that I personally found that the various arguments for it were not what I saw originally as "foolproof" arguments against the existence of God, and after a while I eventually found many fallacies within them that before I had simply ignored as just outliers</p>

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<p>i really can't see how atheism is blind....and to the person who said believing in god is the same as believing in trees and birds...please go to the park or something...you really don't have to believe in trees and birds unless you are blind and deaf</p>

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<p>RootBeerCaesar: what arguments/fallacies are you pointing to? It's always seemed to me that there tends to be fewer, if any, fallacies on the atheistic side (that is, given that side is well-supported), often because atheism is on the "defense" rather than the "offense."</p>

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<p>Well personally I suppose the main fallacy is not a typical 'fallacy' in the sense of the word, but generally I noticed most atheistic arguments when reasoned down to their core were simply a matter of 'choosing' which side you wanted to believe in.</p>

<p>The main argument I remember was the argument that religion is analogous to a more 'nicer' story of the "invisibie pink (note the contradiction invisible-pink, implying color and noncolor, which is analogous too what Betrand Russel described as the contradictory elements of god being all powerful, all knowing, and all loving) dragon who says "worship me or you all die and suffer eternal damnation", and if we had someone telling us that today we'd call them a lunatic, but instead we call them Priests and Churchmen" (this is not any actual excerpts, just a general summary)</p>

<p>I finally realized this argument was an argument of choice. While the existence is un-disprovable generally which is normally a fallacy, I Found that generally to be more so of an "excuse" than a hard fact-centered argument. But the main thing I found was that in the end it was the persons choice whether to believe in taht so called "invisible pink dragon in the sky" because if God did exist, then atheists would be screwed. When atheists then say "well you can't force yourself to believe in something, it just doesnt work and is insincere so if God is all knowing he will know your insincere", well personally I'm very sincere about my belief and I didnt go through any 'faking' in it, it just sortof occured as a long gradual thought train. </p>

<p>personally though my view of God discards slightly with some of the traditional concepts of christianity which I consider myself closest to. I do not consider the old Hebrew God represented in the Old and New testament as an "all-loving god" (this is the main contradiction Russel pointed out), as personally I remember reading how he can also be a "jealous and vengful god" so to me, the bible clearly invokes in him a personality and not just a static mind that cannot change moods with different situational applications. But like I said, I'm still in the process of searching on my own, so im no expert.</p>

<p>(Note: personally I'm still a great fan of Betrand Russel. While I disagree partially with his completely anti-religious standpoint, I full heartidly agree with his humanist-centered standpoint that it is for humans to build the world we desire, as God gave us the gift of intelligence and will and it would be the worst possible act to throw these unique gifts away which no other species possesses)</p>

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<p>good article from reddit related to this topic:
<a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-lostfaith21jul21,0,3530015,full.story?coll=la-home-center%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-lostfaith21jul21,0,3530015,full.story?coll=la-home-center&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>I find it idiotic that Christians believe that if they don't believe in a COMPLETELY (undoubtedly) perfect being--especially given no evidence except a potential madman's raving claiming to be his son--that they won't be let into his special club when they die.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
The main argument I remember was the argument that religion is analogous to a more 'nicer' story of the "invisibie pink (note the contradiction invisible-pink, implying color and noncolor, which is analogous too what Betrand Russel described as the contradictory elements of god being all powerful, all knowing, and all loving) dragon who says "worship me or you all die and suffer eternal damnation", and if we had someone telling us that today we'd call them a lunatic, but instead we call them Priests and Churchmen" (this is not any actual excerpts, just a general summary)

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<p>Actually, it's the Invisible Pink Unicorn. The dragon must be a lame spinoff.</p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And the IPU really isn't an "argument" for atheism at all -- it's simply a parody of theism. It isn't meant to be taken seriously. For real arguments for atheism, see this:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.talkorigins.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>More specifically:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>-"I find it idiotic that Christians believe that if they don't believe in a COMPLETELY (undoubtedly) perfect being--especially given no evidence except a potential madman's raving claiming to be his son--that they won't be let into his special club when they die."</p>

<p>why are they so desperate to be a part of a club in the first place? you might as well call it a cult if its that serious</p>

<p>-"i really can't see how atheism is blind....and to the person who said believing in god is the same as believing in trees and birds...please go to the park or something...you really don't have to believe in trees and birds unless you are blind and deaf"</p>

<p>Chamilitary, I think this person is trying to make the point that believeing in God is as stupid as believing in trees and birds. After all, why would you believe in something or someone you've never seen?
Is God an animal or a super-natural being?</p>

<p>!<em>I dare somebody to answer that question like they know</em>!</p>

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<p>"I find it idiotic that Christians believe that if they don't believe in a COMPLETELY (undoubtedly) perfect being--especially given no evidence except a potential madman's raving claiming to be his son--that they won't be let into his special club when they die."</p>

<p>I'm a conservative Christian, and I don't believe that at all -- nor do I know of any Christian or group of Christians that does. Accepting that God exists and that God is perfect is absolutely not enough for Salvation. Frankly, I find it idiotic that you would assert such a falsity about Christianity.</p>

<p>It helps to do some research about things which we know nothing about before commenting on them.</p>

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<p>Discussions like this always go down the drain. I'll watch from afar :D</p>

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<p>yeah, it happens when you have people that assert stupidity and the pessimistic ones who "watch from afar" and don't try to add the facts:rolleyes:</p>

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<p>Fides et castro, earlier you used Aquinas' five ways to justify why you believe in god - one of the arguments is based around god being perfect. Now you're saying you don't believe in a perfect being? Can't have it both ways.</p>

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<p>Okay, I just reread your post - I misunderstood, sorry. </p>

<p>Anyways you're right: there aren't chrisitians who think that accepting god and its being perfect are ways into heaven. You've got to donate money to your pastor as well...</p>

<p>"SOME of the nation's most powerful pastors — including Billy Graham, Robert H. Schuller and Greg Laurie — appear on the Trinity Broadcasting Network, benefiting from TBN's worldwide reach while looking past the network's reliance on the "prosperity gospel" to fuel its growth.</p>

<p>TBN's creed is that if viewers send money to the network, God will repay them with great riches and good health. Even people deeply in debt are encouraged to put donations on credit cards.</p>

<p>"If you have been healed or saved or blessed through TBN and have not contributed … you are robbing God and will lose your reward in heaven," Paul Crouch, co-founder of the Orange County-based network, once told viewers. Meanwhile, Crouch and his wife, Jan, live like tycoons."
same article: <a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-lostfaith21jul21,0,3530015,full.story?coll=la-home-center%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-lostfaith21jul21,0,3530015,full.story?coll=la-home-center&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Btw, I realize this is talking about evangelicals not, fides et castro, catholics which I think you are?... but they do make up over a quarter of our country so they should be considered</p>

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<p>It's called over generalization of a situation. It's a rhetorical strategy meant to make my argument look stronger than your long winded tirades about a philosopher whose logic is flawed and how theology is a science. What I meant to get across is that many Christians believe that the only way to get into this "heaven" is to believe in Jesus or God. I personally think that if there were a God, there would be no way in Hell that a morally upright atheist would not get into Heaven.</p>

<p>Want to know why? Because if God is a perfect being, then he would have to understand that it would be foolish for him to shun those of his creations that chose to doubt his existence because of a lack of evidence of his existence. All this garbage about how "if you believe, then the worst that can happen is you're wrong, and nothing happens after death" is what I was directing my argument at. The fact that Christians believe that God will keep atheists out of their special little club when they die is equivalent to the psyche of a twelve year old boy. </p>

<p>To believe that a morally upright Atheist will not get into Heaven simply because he didn't choose to believe in something with no evidence is the bleakest assertion I've heard.</p>

<p>P.S. Many Christians and Catholics believe in God because they are afraid of eternal damnation when they die. I wasn't asserting that the belief in God alone would give you an all access pass to heaven.</p>

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<p>"Want to know why? Because if God is a perfect being, then he would have to understand that it would be foolish for him to shun those of his creations that chose to doubt his existence because of a lack of evidence of his existence. All this garbage about how "if you believe, then the worst that can happen is you're wrong, and nothing happens after death" is what I was directing my argument at. The fact that Christians believe that God will keep atheists out of their special little club when they die is equivalent to the psyche of a twelve year old boy. "</p>

<p>What the hell? This is what I've been saying all this time. If you read in my earlier post, i explicitly stated that God has not proved himself and showed himself yet so he should be perfectly understandable if people don't believe in him. Athiest to me are just ind oubt and I Understand that. I myself, wonder if there really is a God</p>

<p>"P.S. Many Christians and Catholics believe in God because they are afraid of eternal damnation when they die. I wasn't asserting that the belief in God alone would give you an all access pass to heaven."</p>

<p>Exactly, society and the bible forces that belief into you so much that you're intimidated not to believe. some people are so scared of the future that they join the parade of people believing in God.</p>