<p>I can definitely understand why Athiest Choose "Atheism".</p>
<p>They keep reiterating how Jesus will come one day
Has he came? Not that I know of</p>
<p>They say gOd answers your paryers in mysterious ways. How mysterious? The last time i checked, my prayers for an X-box 360 weren't answered. Ok, thats a joke but still</p>
<p>has this "so-called" God actually showed himself?
once again, I'm not going to say no but I'm going to say "Not that I know of"</p>
<p>&& I most definitely hate all this psycho-babble about seeing ghost in churches and walking zombies that disappear. Please, its all hallucinations</p>
<p>If anybody disagrees with me, please disagree nicely. ^What i said was strong so I had to repeat that</p>
<p>getup01, There is alot wrong with your phrasing "Why do athiests refuse to believe in God?". That makes me so angry. That is exactly America's attitude: That somehow atheists REFUSE to believe, with a negative connotation. No it is not that we refuse to believe it's that we highly doubt that there is a God. Big difference. Why? Becuase there's no proof, and please don't tell me you don't need proof, you need faith.</p>
<p>"there are too many ways that are unknown".
What you fail to see is that THE UKNOWN DOES NOT EQUAL GOD. The uknown means we do not currently understand it. As humans progress we chip away at what we don't understand and each time religion becomes more and more irrelevant.</p>
<p>Yes, WindCloudUltra I disagree with dawkins thoughts on agnostics too. I think that there is essentialy no one who completely does not believe in God. Do you remember his scale? If I remember his scale correctly I think I am six, so I consider myself an atheist.</p>
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[quote]
Originally Posted by kyledavid08 But that's inherently contradictory. A set plan leaves no choice. You mean, he has a set plan for everyone, and he hopes we'll chose to take it? In that case, it doesn't seem as though he as an individual plan for each person, rather that he has a set system of rules, values, virtues, that he wants you to follow (as outlined in the Bible).
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<p>I don't know if someone has already said this, because I'm writing this before reading this entire thread.</p>
<p>I think that when they say that God has a plan for everyone, it basically means that He knows what everyone will do before they do it. He knows the choices that they'll make. He never robbed humans of their free will. Rather, He knows what will happen before it does. That's just the way I interpret it, though.</p>
<p>Kyledavid80:
If I'm not mistaken, Leviticus and Deuteronomy contain mainly laws and/or "advice" from God for the Hebrews. A lot of it was really relevant back then because it had to do with cleanliness and sanitation; God wanted to keep his people healthy. Also, this was before Jesus' time when people had to do things like animal sacrifice to be cleansed of their sins.</p>
<p>A lot changed after Jesus; sacrifices weren't necessary because salvation was a "free gift," etc.</p>
<p>Haha Roxxy, you use the classic "God does not want us to understand" argument in the metaphor you posted. Well in the words of Dawkins, "that's just too easy isn't it?".</p>
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What escapes me is why loss strengthens people’s faith.
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<p>Not always. When my brother passed away from leukemia, my mother became an ardent atheist.</p>
<p>So Authentic: there are only too many flaws with Christianity that I cannot even begin to state them here. There are many sites devoted to it, though.</p>
<p>pseud08: I agree that unknown doesn't equal God. I've long held that I'm not so arrogant to say that I know there's even a god; I don't know, so I won't feign to know.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If I'm not mistaken, Leviticus and Deuteronomy contain mainly laws and/or "advice" from God for the Hebrews. A lot of it was really relevant back then because it had to do with cleanliness and sanitation; God wanted to keep his people healthy. Also, this was before Jesus' time when people had to do things like animal sacrifice to be cleansed of their sins.
[/quote]
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<p>I believe at the beginning of the New Testament, Jesus declares that he has not come to abolish any of God's past laws.</p>
<p>And do tell me how homosexuality affects one's health. (If anyone mentions AIDS, then I'll ask him or her to leave this discussion, for he/she isn't intelligent enough to debate this highly philosophical topic.)</p>
<p>Im very sorry if i seemed harsh, i really didnt mean to be. God does not have to prove himself, and shouldnt. If he did prove himself, and did miracles left and right, then we would believe with NO DOUBT (or atleast mostly no doubt). Lets say he came out and said, I am God. and did a lot of miracles. again, there would be no doubt of his existance. Therefore, if there is no doubt about his existance, then we would have no freedom as to what to believe. In this hypothetical case, we could only have one answer (though it may be diluted again through the minds of people). So, if God presented himself obviously to us, we would all believe and thus all go to heaven following our deaths. The problem is, God allows us freedom to believe in Him or not to. Thus, if one awaits proof for him, his waiting will be in vain. I hope this makes sense, I realize that its very repetitive and fractured.</p>
<p>You misunderstand me; I was speaking in context of the concept of suffering. Didn't you ask how death/suffering could increase one's faith in God?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Originally Posted by Roxxy
<a href="On%20an%20unrelated%20note,%20why%20isn't%20my%20post%20count%20going%20up?%20It's%20been%20113%20for%20my%20past%2020-some%20posts.%20:P">I</a>*
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<p>Cafe posts don't count towards your total post count.</p>
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Originally Posted by So Authentic Why does the Earth change into different seasons every three or so months. Logic explains that different parts of the Earth faces the sun
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</p>
<p>For the sake of argument, who's to say that God didn't create the change of the seasons and the logic behind it?</p>
<p>Edit: I should rephrase this. When people couldn't figure out the reasons for particular events in nature, they claimed that they were caused by a particular Deity. The change of the seasons could have been attributed to Divine whatever. Now that we know that the change in the seasons depends on the earth's position in relation to the sun, why can't we attribute the creation of a system that's so logical and simple to God? Is it really easier to to believe that it was created by chance?</p>
<p>roxxy, I thought you were talking in general, did not realize you were referring to that particular sentence. I don't why it strengthens peoples faith. Throughout history disastrous situations have routinely made the majority of survivors more convinced that god exists. It simply amazes me that this is so. What is revolting is the explinations from some theologins that usually look something like this: those who suffered were given the opportunity to show god their faith. Those who didn't suffer as much as the victims are more thankful than ever to god. </p>
<p>rockermcr, If god created the seasons he would have had to make sure that our sun was in a specfic HII region, formed the specfic size that it did, made sure that out of the hundreds of planets that surrounded our sun ours was one of the eight that survived and then made sure an object hit our planet at exactly the right angle to make sure we have the tilt to have seasons. I would call it dumbluck that an object hit the earth. While our planet was forming so were billions of others. I highly doubt that if there is a god, he would be concerning himself with our seasons while so much was going on in the rest of the universe.</p>
<p>getup01, When I'm talking about atheists I'm talking about people like in your definition and also agnostics who essentially do not believe in a god, but who also have the slightest doubt.</p>
<p>rockermcr: the system formed the way it has because of the laws of physics. That's all. Now, one could in theory contend that God created the laws of physics, since everything needs a creator. To that I would say, Who created God?</p>
<p>On another note, rockermcr, I always thought you were female. =p</p>
<p>ummmm have anybody ever heard of the "Big Bang?"
the whole theory of the Earth && other celestial objects originating explosion from the Universe.........ummm if scientist are right</p>
<p>Then the Earth was most definitely not created from God. </p>
<p>I mean, like really? whats beyond teh universe? Whats after the dark area thats in space? is it heaven? did God create that?</p>
<p>^^these are all the questions that leave me skeptical about God and somewhat pushes me not towards atheism but more of being agnostic</p>
<p>PS:: Lets not go off tangent are start talking about science now</p>