This site can scare the pants off anyone who isn’t Harvard bound.
I’m the mom of 3 kids. My oldest is a Senior in high school. And, while he’s one of the lights of my life, he’s a barely-B student.
I drove the bus on college applications. I found schools with were within a 4ish hour drive that were likely to accept someone like my son. We visited 7 or 8 of them, discarded a few, and ended up with a core of good prospects.
He’s currently sitting on 6 acceptance. Most came with a bit of merit aid.
But I will chime in with a bit about the much-maligned State schools. I’m not sure where you’re from, or whether it matters. But if my son happens to go to the SUNY school to which he’s been accepted, that will be OK with me.
In my many years of teaching I’ve come to see that most kids bloom where they’re planted. They become who they plan to become.
We have 4 kids. Our financial situation is probably not too far off of yours, OP. We live in the city, but I drive 35 miles each way through traffic to get to work and back to those same things. We live in Texas, so if the kids go to a ‘state’ activity, it becomes a journey of many hours of driving. I would not drive to any of it if the purpose of their activities was to pad a resume. In our case, it is choral music. They all sing beautifully (IMHO) and have done well in that regard. Not going to be music teachers or get big money from it, but it is what they enjoy, so we indulge.
My purpose is really to reassure you. Ours are all different children. Our oldest is the naturally brilliant kid. A bit socially awkward, though in his 2nd year of college he is growing out of that. He could have gone to those top schools, but the expense would never be worth it unless we were into bragging or he was into politics or something like that. He took the money at a state school and gets the benefits of a small honors college with the side benefits of going to a ‘big’ school. Our second is about to graduate. She is a smart kid, but is not the competitive sort. She is above average in her grades and test scores, but feels like she is below average because of the ‘rat race’ of competitive admissions. She wanted one of our flagship schools, but that was a bit beyond her. She will go to a a school that really suits her learning style. When it is all said and done, she will be fine. S2 is a freshman in HS and is bright and social. It is too early to tell how he will land in the next 2 or 3 years, but he is not interested in the plastic world of test-prep and resume padding. He will do what suits him and take the best available option for him. The youngest has a few years yet, but her personality is not going to lend itself to academics as ‘blood sport’ either. She will do fine, too.
Don’t get hung up on where your kids go to school. They will do as well as their ability and ambition take them. Remember it is their life, not yours. Too often we see parents pushing for goals that ultimately mean nothing more than bragging rights. Sure we all want great things for our kids. Great kids will have great lives with our without a particular school, job, award, or whatever. Enjoy the journey. There are many great resources here. Learn to filter out the bragging, high stat chance threads. Some of it is just that, bragging. Some of it is bright kids with no idea where they fit. Their families and/or schools may not have any experience in dealing with high stat performance and are looking for direction. That does not reflect at all on your kids and their worth. Best of luck!
My older is just a freshman. Maybe I’ll go crazy over this stuff in a couple of years but for now I’m not.
The way I see it, I wouldn’t want to her change who she is (to play dumb for example) to get a boy to like her. IMO the college stuff is similar. I don’t want her to mold herself to fit what she (or I) think any college admissions officer wants. I want her to figure out what she is interested in, I want her to learn what she can and enjoy her opportunities in high school.
I like reading the posts by parents who have students who look at different options. The “best” school is the school that is best for that particular kid. We have 5 kids and even within our family there are different approaches.
Great advice on this thread! My oldest is a high school senior, waiting to hear back from schools. The mindset we had when she started high school definitely changed over the course of 4 years. She has a great GPA, solid test scores, and pursued her passions for ECs. After realizing that certain schools would not be possible–we are not first generation, no legacies, and she’s not academically superior to other applicants–we sought out schools that we felt she would be happy at and has a good chance at being successful at. We also tried to target schools that she has a shot at merit aid. We’ve saved (not enough!) but I don’t regret for a minute taking family vacations or the fact that she chose an EC that she loved, not because it was one that was heavily recruited by colleges at her high school.
@Krenster, post #15 by @azwu331 is spot on advice.
You and your kids can and should opt out of “the race”, but that should not preclude your children from attending great colleges or universities. In fact I think MIT’s simple and elegant advice sited by @azu3311 will enhance your children’s opportunities for college and life in general.
Our oldest daughter was not in the top 5% of her class, did not play sports, was not in any honor societies, did not log community service hours, and did not join school clubs, except one (though she was not an officer) which she felt very passionate about. She was not a legacy, URM, athlete, first gen etc…
She did love to read and write, and enjoyed going to school and participating in class discussions. She did spend a lot of her free time in the school theater; and during her school breaks she participated in local community theater. She was also in chorus. She did make time on the weekends to hang out with us, her group of friends and her high school boy friend.
She applied early to U of Minn and Brown U. because she really liked their theater departments. She was accepted to both schools and therefore withdrew her applications to her other choices: Fordham and UNC.
All great advice here. My favorite pieces of reading in all this process have been a) The Gatekeepers (good perspective on how quirky the admissions process can be at high stakes schools b) Bruni’s Where You Go is Not Who You’ll Be (op ed is sufficient … didn’t need to read the book and c) all the sage advice from parents of low key non-hoop-jumping students here on CC. The thing to remember is that they’re just future grown-ups in search of a solid path, not show dogs in search of a trophy.
@Alpha101, when I read your post I think of my D#1 and D#2. D#1 was my academic superstar. Yes she was smart, but she was also highly motivated and competitive. She had a great work ethic and astonishing time management skills for a HS student. So I feel a huge part of her success came from those factors (“99% perspiration”) more than just native intelligence. So yes, part of me looks at D#2 struggling and thinks: D#2 seems smart and capable, but is not motivated, and does not have any time management skills. Theoretically she COULD be duplicating D#1’s success. But you know what? D#2 is NOT D#1. She’s going to develop in her own way on her own timeline. I had lots of ideas when D#2 started her freshman year of EC’s she could do and an academic path that I thought would be good for her. But I’ve quickly realized that D#2 digs her heels in and resists my attempts to “helicopter” parent her. She’s going to do things her way, and if that means no EC’s and a more relaxed academic path, then that’s fine. There will still be many, many college options open to her when she’s ready to graduate.
@Krenster realize this site is highly skewed with high achieving kids - especially the student half of it. The Parent Forum is more sane. I’ve got one high achieving kid who could get A’s with his hands tied behind his back and another one with more slackerish tendencies though he actually usually came through in the end with good grades. Both were lucky to test well, mostly because they read so much sci fi and fantasy. Neither took every AP offered, neither got involved in sports (travel teams in middle school were too time-consuming for me) and then they weren’t good enough for most of the high school teams. They each did a few ECs they enjoyed at school. The oldest spent most of his time learning to program computers the other one mostly played, though he ended up turning a hobby of folding origami into a small business where he sold origami jewelry at a local gallery. They both got 8 hours of sleep a night.
As a parent you want to make sure that academically your kids don’t close doors (don’t quit with foreign languages or math too soon.) But you want to make sure that they take a schedule they can handle. That may mean a science kid only takes the Science APs, or it may mean that honors is a more appropriate level. Schools vary - so the appropriate level at one school may not be the same as at another level. You know your kid best, sometimes they have to be nudged to challenge themselves a little more - but if you meet resistance, listen to your kid. They may know more than you, both my kids persuaded me that AP Literature was not for them. They did fine without it.
@Krenster You seem awfully reasonable. Take a deep breath and keep doing what you are doing. Raising a happy, confident, responsible person is much more important than driving them into the ground and ruining their childhood in pursuit of the mythical golden ticket. You only get to be a kid once. And contrary to popular belief, elite admission doesn’t mean you are “set for life” just like non-elite admission doesn’t mean you are screwed for life. My kids are surrounded by fellow teens who are train wrecks because their parents have driven them so hard and terrorized them so much about elite admissions. You wonder how they are going to do in life when they realize that life is a never ending series of hurdles and that Ivy admission doesn’t mean the world is going to swoon at their feet forever.
My oldest got in sideways to a top 10 school. I’m incredibly proud of him but never pushed for it and would have been just as happy for him if he had picked one of the lower ranked schools that accepted him. I fought him every year on taking AP classes. He wanted to start taking them as a freshman and make sure he had at least 18 of them by graduation. He did wind up with around 10 total, but that’s only about half of what his peer group has done. And he had a pretty good time in high school. Got plenty of sleep most of the time. Had time for sports and girlfriends.
Not only are the CC postings not representative, a good portion of the stats and ECs posted by students are fictitious. (say it with me people – folks lie on the internet) Some of the kids are just being aspirational (I know I’ll work hard enough to get that 2400 superscore, so I’ll just say I have it; I know that I’ll ace all my APs and self-study 5 more, and start three new clubs, so I just need to know if that’s good enough for HYP). Some seem to be attempts by kids to freak out the other hyper-competitive kids. Sometimes kids pretend to be parents. Sometimes they are obviously not serious (the folks who suggest community college to kids with 3.4 uw), sometimes not so obvious.
The Chance Me threads are the worst, but some of the threads in the SAT/ACT prep and the individual college sections are just as bad. There also are plenty of adults who want to perpetuate urban legends (I know some adcoms, they really don’t have time for complex conspiracies and they really like kids and don’t expect them to be superstars at 17).
First off, your family sounds awesome. Grounded, centered, and happy is the basis for a great future IMO.
I think this is more about College Confidential than having to be “perfect” to get into a “good” college. In our real life, my kid looks good. Here, not so much. When I first joined CC, I was intimidated and sometimes even hopeless with what I read. But, the merit, financial aid, and college suggestions are great here, and now, after a few months of daily visiting, I’ve found my groove.
My number one favorite thread is our Class of 2016 Parents thread. Yes, many of the parents have kids more “top tier” than mine, but the vibe is so supportive no matter where you are on spectrum, it doesn’t matter. The other game changer was looking at the threads featuring uber parents and their kids more holistically. It would probably drive them up the wall if they knew, but I feel sorry for many of them. I wish them success and happiness, but they put up so many artificial barriers to reach their narrow interpretation of that, it seems unlikely.
I’m a manatee mom so it is doubtful I will produce a tiger, but maybe a camel or a colorful lizard or a silly monkey, which is fine because who wants a zoo full of tigers?
I get your point OP. I thought my kid was destined for top 20 greatness unitl I came to CC. And thank goodness I did. This website is the ONLY place on the web where I learned the truth. Because I did, my daughter and I created a very well-balanced list of colleges to apply to. Some of them are top tier, because she is a great student, but I know the reality. Tons of great students will make it to the gate, and never be allowed through it. My D now has two acceptances in hand to two excellent colleges, one of which is a safety, the other a low-match. We expect more acceptances, but she visited the low match yesterday and I am actually thinking it might be “the one.” I would be happy with that, as it is a wonderful school. If we hadn’t come to CC though, I can imagine a different scenario, one in which she doesn’t get into any of her top choices and then feels depressed at the thought of having to attend a match or safety school. There are too many people out there who don’t have a clue. My D and I both know that if you plan it right, there are so many excellent colleges out there. Getting into the top tier ones are just a bonus, not an expectation. And I should say, top tier schools are not the be all and end all. Be proud that you figured it out before your kids apply to college.
@eh1234 LOL, first of all I am not the parent…but the student.
“I strongly disagree that every kid can ace everything if they just work hard enough. Sorry, doesn’t work that way. We are not all born with the same level of intelligence, talents, drives and abilities. If my D worked that hard for four years, she wouldn’t just be unhappy, she would probably be hospitalized with anxiety and depression and still wouldn’t have perfect grades or scores. That’s cool that your kids are hyper competitive and went to Columbia for free. Good for them.Many of us have normal kids with strengths and weaknesses who haven’t quite found their passion yet. My D16 has been accepted to all of the schools she applied to with her B+ average and 30 ACT score and few ECs and I’m proud of her.”
Ok so this is coming from an actual high school student that goes to high school. And I have to say you’re wrong on that. What many people don’t understand is that high school/tests/SATs are in no way a measure of who is smarter…but much more of who can sit down and study more. So in essence, yes, it does work that way. You learn these things after spending three and a half years of actually being around other students in challenging classes everyday.And I don’t particularly get what you mean when you say “normal.” Like I said, all kids are normal, it’s not like some are aliens.
Let me give you an example of how it works. Teacher says AP Chemistry test is next week (I chose AP Chemistry because I personally think its the hardest AP you can take along with Physics and Calc…to give credibility to the example). She also says there is extra help everyday during periods 4, 5, and 6 during students’ lunch periods…so if a kid doesn’t understand anything then she can explain it to them. Student A goes to extra help everyday, sits down and studies an hour and a half Monday through Friday, two hours on the weekend and gets a 96. Student B waits until the day before the test and crams for six hours and gets a 85. Student C is lazy and decides its not worth it and gets a 66. Typical test day in AP Chem… this is pretty much how grades work.
“Hospitalized with anxiety and depression and still wouldn’t have perfect grades or scores” LOL
Wait what? What kind of twisted depiction do you have??? Have you personally witnessed this, or is this just speculation?
I’d like to believe I’m pretty normal. No hospitalization or depression here. :>
@ Alpha101 - not sure what your point is in arguing. Yes, you worked hard, did everything you could, did not suffer from depression, and got into Columbia. The reality is not everyone can do that; you will see some day when you have your own children. YOUR experience is YOUR experience. The OP’s post is about how to maintain your sanity in a hyper-competitive environment, and what it means to be successful. Not necessarily how to get into the top schools.
(And the adults on here do know how high school and studying works. We’ve done it before and have shepherded our kids through it as well )
@alpha101 you have every reason to feel proud of your hard work and successful results. No one here is trying to take that away from you. All we’re saying is that not everyone follows the same path. Check back with us in 20 years and you may be very surprised how well some of your slacker classmates turn out, and how some of your high achievers may disappoint.
@alpha101 I assume you are a high school senior and will be attending Columbia in the fall? Please check back with us at the end of your first semester and let us know if you still feel the same way. I have a feeling that you may encounter a class or two there where simply putting in the time and effort will not result in an A. You may even have an “aha” moment when you realize that some of the other people in your classes really are just smarter than you.
Can you remember what elementary school was like? Before you sat down studying for hours? I think by 1st or 2nd grade kids realize that some classmates are naturally smarter than others, and what end of the spectrum they fall on, so I can’t comprehend how you don’t grasp that concept as a high school senior.
I am sure you worked hard in high school, but to dismiss every other student as simply not trying hard enough is absurd.
@planner03 I simply shared my views on HIGH SCHOOl academics…because I’ve actually gone through it. By no means am I talking about college or life in general…it would be absurd for me to make generalized assumptions on things I have no experience in. The statements I have made are solely based on factual experiences I have witnessed through high school, tutoring for a couple of years, and speaking to other students. And as long as we are on the topic, you are absolutely right about college…but that is because it is a whole other ball game. I have talked to college students and taken note of the sheer difficulty of classes such as organic chemistry.
And I’ll tell you right now, there are already tons of students in my class right now that are smarter than me. Like I said before, high school is not a measure of who is smarter but who can study more.
Yes, I see your point in that some kids are naturally inborn with slight intellectual advantages than others. But what I’m am saying is that students can overcome that gap by working harder. And I might even give less credit to inborn IQ because a lot it has to do with the environment that the child has grown up in. Did their family give a lot of important to academics, were their parents first generation, did they have older siblings that could guide them, etc…
Lol, it seems you perception of my statement is not what I intended. First off working hard “enough” is completely subjective. What do you mean by “enough.” If I were to guess you mean working to their full potential, correct? Then yes, there are many of kids that don’t work to their full potential…but does that mean they are unhappy or end up at bad schools or unsuccessful…hell no. In a hyperbolic sense, there is no kid studying 24/7 for the SAT or any test in that matter.
@Corinthian Like I said I am by no means saying that this is advice for “life.” Just high school. Trust me I know, there will be tons of slacker kids that will have grown to be very successful and happy. However, what if they had applied themselves more and not slacked. Where would they be then? Even better off I’m guessing.
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