Winter Break over - Daughter/Father Relationship a total disaster

Parents Forum
1

<p>I didn't think I'd survive the last couple of weeks. I really need to vent and I literally have NO ONE to talk with about this.</p>

<p>Our oldest daughter came home for winter break, she's a freshman (or as her school calls it, a "freshwoman").</p>

<p>She was unable to secure a job over the break, which her father and I totally understand - it was hard for ANYONE to secure seasonal work through the holidays. We weren't worried about it.</p>

<p>However, it seemed the minute she got home - her father and she slipped right back into the antagonistic relationship they've had since she was 10 years old. For one, he could hardly start ANY conversation with her on ANY topic without her getting defensive and then retreating to her room. For another, she is trying so hard to be an adult that she comes off with certain senses of entitlement that enrage her father.</p>

<p>I tried to be the peacemaker, but I could see it didn't solve anything. Last week, they started in again and I just let it go. I let them go at each other in the hopes that they would actually find some common ground and at least agree to disagree, or find a place where they could tolerate each other. But no, that didn't happen. What happened was almost five solid days of them not speaking to each other. I managed to get them to speak to each other about one whole minute the night before she had to leave, but believe me the tension/friction is still there.</p>

<p>She's coming back for Spring Break in March. I have until then to try to negotiate with both of them. However, she is hoping to go to some conference - related to volunteer work she does - that would take up about half that time (and I hope she can raise the money to go).</p>

<p>I hesitate to air my whole laundry list of what their issues seem to be in this posting because it would take a long time, and I haven't quite figured out if there is a common denominator to all of it. All I know is that between losing 8 pounds in the last week, and having daily chest pains - I don't know if I can handle this tension for another 3.5 years.</p>

<p>If this forum is the incorrect place to discuss this, I am open to suggestions on where I might be able to do so. I REALLY need someone to talk to, and am even considering counseling because it's just all too much for me to handle.</p>

<p>Thank you,</p>

<p>FannyPack</p>

2

<p>There is too much unsaid/unexplained for me to try to suggest more than familycounseling. A third neutral party could listen and help direct needed advice.</p>

<p>Since that is not likely to happen, get individual counseling for yourself. It will help you to know how to handle yourself when she comes home and the war starts again. Go, it will do you good.</p>

3

<p>Counseling sounds like a good plan. Hard to offer advice not knowing what the conflict is, but if it's been going on since she was 10 it's deep and the answer won't be simple.</p>

<p>Since you mention the term freshwoman, I'm thinking your DD must go to an all women's college. Do we have a feminist who sees her dad as a chauvinist here?</p>

4

<p>As a father of a high school senior D, I would like to suggest that father need to be open to the growing up daughter's need and feeling. Every child need some space. I really work hard to understand my D's feeling without giving her chance to express. It is difficult to be a young women. I only realized this after seeing my D growing up with so many such issues. These were not part of my growing up and I never understood my wife's complaints too about this. But I do work hard to understand my D's issues and try to accomodate her mood swings.</p>

5

<p>My wife feels it is truly Divine intervention that makes a young person hard to get along with as they near adulthood. The young one often wants to be treated like an adult, yet often lives in parents home for free like they did when they were 10. Or, wants to be an adult, yet parents are often still paying all or most of bills like when they were 10. We feel a person is not an adult until they are self-supporting. My wife feels this awkward time for both parties is God's plan to make the separation easier. My son and I had a very tough time too. We had the usual- "I'm 18 now" talk, except I made it clear the freedoms that come with his being 18 are mine! I no longer had to cook, clean, provide socks, belt, books, bed, phone, or money, etc. Nothing. From 18 on, anything I chose to do for him was a gift. A gift so far that I am gladly giving. He had never thought of it from that perspective(neither had I at that age). He then had a much clearer idea that with privileges come obligations and we got along much better. Like most people, we are more willing to help those who cooperate with us than those who fight us.</p>

6

<p>I don't have any advice except to try counseling. You don't have to play referee. A good counselor will help you see that.</p>

7

<p>younghoss, I like the "gift" concept. I had never thought of things in that way before. To the OP, we went through something very similar with our son when he's returned home on his breaks. We haven't had an antagonistic relationship since he was 10, but he's definitely asserted his desire for independence from our expectations since his senior year in HS. If the issues are longstanding (and it seems that they are), counseling for your family would be a great idea. If they won't go, then you should.</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
** All I know is that between losing 8 pounds in the last week, and having daily chest pains - I don't know if I can handle this tension for another 3.5 years.

[/quote]
**</p>

<p>Take care of yourself, first. Then decide if and what you can do for the other two.</p>

9

<p>I would also point out to Dad that college is a scary time, as are the teen years. Kids are exploring and growing and want to assert independence, but they still want to know home is there for them, they also may store up and dump all their frustrations with all the changes in life at home, where it is safe to do so.</p>

<p>Can Dad analyze the exchanges and determine that there are areas where he really does not have to get into it with her- just let her spout off and ignore it?</p>

<p>If you give more details, people may share their stories. I know we have had some challenging breaks and the most challenging kid through teens and college is an absolute delight today!!</p>

10

<p>I was afraid that would happen, I was trying to avoid being too wordy.</p>

<p>She goes to a college about 8 miles away, and lives on campus. The "deal" was, since she doesn't drive, that we would pay to have her live on campus in lieu of "forcing" her into driving and living at home.</p>

<p>The college is private and quite expensive, but she managed to secure a scholarship that pays about 1/2 of her tuition. The rest, we pay for, and it is a struggle to do this.</p>

<p>She got a 4.0 gpa for the first semester, works work/study jobs, has two volunteer jobs that she does on campus.</p>

<p>She has a boyfriend that lives about 20 miles away. He attends a state university and lives at home. It costs her $24 round trip to visit him, it costs him about $8 for his round trip (due to the fact that he has a transit pass that he needs just to get to school and back). Neither drive. He works in retail, but has been laid off twice this past year (not his fault, companies went belly up). His father pays for his school (divorced family, he lives with mom).</p>

<p>So, dad seems to take issue with the fact that they actually see each other - visit each other. And, because they are both over 18 - could possibly be having a physical relationship. He didn't like it when the bf came over during break (which was about 1/2 dozen times) or when she went to see him (also about a 1/2 dozen times). Dad didn't like it when she went out with, or to visit, her high school friends that were also home on break. A few times some of them came over, but although he said he didn't mind - seemed irritated.</p>

<p>He took issue with her asking if the bf could stay overnight at our house New Years Eve (there was no way for him to get back home that late), because she wouldn't explicitly state there would be no "hanky-panky" as he called it. She said that she didn't feel the statement deserved an answer, and that because of the tension it created - there was no chance of "hanky-panky" occurring because they both felt like they were under a microscope.</p>

<p>We gave her a card at Christmas that said we would foot the bill for her books this coming semester, and we also put some money in her bank account. Dad took issue any time she went out that might be an opportunity to spend money and felt that she was "just blowing" the money we gave her (even if all she did was visit a friend at their parent's home).</p>

<p>She got testy with me one time when she was going to see her bf because I asked about what time she'd be returning home. She said she felt she didn't need to answer that, because she's "18 now and an adult". I told her that I felt that it was a courtesy to me since I am the one that prepares meals, and also picks her up from the local transit station. I'm not going to sit by the phone, waiting for her to call me, when I have other things to do - plus, if I'm preparing meals, it helps to know how many people I'm actually cooking for. She also spouted off that she has a friend who walks out the door and doesn't come back for up to 4 days, and her parents don't care. I said they were stupid, and she thinks that anything less than this is being controlling.</p>

<p>There were many things where she told us that her friends get to do such-and-such, but we don't allow her to do these things. It's hard to swallow when she bad-mouths their parents for the things they think are unfair, but then takes the opportunity to throw in our face the things that they ARE allowed to do (that we apparently don't).</p>

<p>Dad says she seems ungrateful for all that we are doing for her, and feels that they only way to resolve this is to "yank the college money", which would only put her in a position where she has to move back home (which I don't see as a solution since it would be like starting a bonfire in the middle of the house). She feels the solution is to save what money she can and try to eliminate any need for our money, she wants to try to do it all on her own - including buying her own car and getting her own place so that when she finishes college - she's out of our hair. But, every time she tries to say that she has a goal of doing this, he flips out and says she'll fail, get pregnant, won't finish school, and a litany of other things that are only the negative side of things if it all goes bad.</p>

<p>She is completely happy when she is at school and away from us. She is thriving in her environment, and becoming everything I hoped she could be. Yesterday, when I took her back to school, all she could talk about was getting back to work - study - what she's grown used to being her "life". </p>

<p>He thinks she's trying to find ways to drain our bank accounts (she doesn't have access to them), ditch school, party - a multitude of things I don't even think are even in her head. He thinks the only reason she's going to college is to get away from us, and see her boyfriend "on our dime".</p>

<p>He is miserable in may aspects of his life right now. His job situation has been bleak for a couple of years now and it is wearing him down to the point where I think he might need counseling. He even accuses me of "hiding money" so that someday he'll come home and find me and our youngest daughter have left him.</p>

<p>He never went to college, and had an adversarial relationship with his parents. He was kicked out at age 17 for getting into a fistfight with his father. Their relationship is better now, but I can never get any of them to tell me exactly what happened way back then.</p>

<p>I, too, was kicked out when I was 17. I had graduated from high school, and had a full time job and was looking forward to going to community college and living at home. My mother was an alcoholic and kicked me out after we'd had an argument over my boyfriend. She accused me of giving my paychecks to my boyfriend, when in fact, I was saving as much money as I could for college - I showed her my bank passbook - she called me a liar and kicked me out. My father traveled a lot on his job and didn't know for 3 months that she'd kicked me out. I did go to school, after a long time, and only completed my degrees (yes, two of them) last year. I honestly think my husband resents that I did this because he never went to college, and says he's "too old" now.</p>

<p>Another aspect of this is that our daughter does to school with some very wealthy girls. Not only do some of the parents foot the entire bill, the girls don't work or volunteer, and actually get sizable allowances at school (one girl gets a check for $1,000 every month and still cries that her parents are "tight"). Some of them sit around talking about how deprived they are when they don't realize just how lucky they are. Some parents have paid for several girls to fly out of state for visits to their home and pay for everything. Some local parents host dinner parties and have them catered in their palatial homes. We aren't in a position to do those types of things on that scale, but we could make an attempt.</p>

<p>Along with having our water restricted by the water district, how high gas prices got last summer, having to restrict our gas/electric usage, food prices going up, and all the other things - it's been hard to feel any security about our finances. I know he feels overwhelmed, and I think he lashes out at her because she is living the life he wishes he would have had - and hence - we wouldn't be in this situation now.</p>

<p>Overall we are all very stressed out and seem to be in a negative spiral. I take some ownership in that because I don't always think I'm the most pleasant person to be around either. I'm trying to figure a way to stop this downward momentum and start us back up on the right track so that even though things aren't the greatest, we are supportive of each other and actually get along for more than 5 minutes.</p>

<p>If anyone has read all this - it may seem all over the board - it seems that way for me too. I just don't have anyone to talk to about it - my own parents haven't spoken to me in 14 years (whole other story - not for this forum). I don't have any friends, I don't have an outside job (I work from home) - I feel very isolated and very alone. I don't even feel close enough to my daughter's friend's parents to even talk to any of them (plus they seem to be financial better off than us and have never seemed to understand why we couldn't always write blank checks like them).</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

11

<p>I am sorry you are so burdened. Nice folks here on CC and I think you are likely not the only suffering soul on this forum. Again, nice share and I am sorry for your troubles. I encourage you to find a professional to talk with about these problems.</p>

12

<p>Get thee to a counselor -- now!</p>

<p>Your dh is stressed, probably depressed, feeling sorry for himself and definitely overcontrolling. It's unreasonable of him to not want her to see her friends and bf. She's overreacting about your very reasonable requests (wanting to know when she's coming home), but her anger is misplaced; she's really reacting to her overbearing father.</p>

<p>Like a pp said, take care of yourself first.</p>

13

<p>Try to distance yourself from their relationship as much as humanly possible. Have your own relationship with each of them.</p>

<p>I met my husband on his first day of college. He hated his father. Feelings have softened over the years but he still hopes that when he calls his folks, he doesn't have to talk to his dad. </p>

<p>Husband is doing his level best to create this same horrible relationship with his own kids. I tell him what he is doing and that when they are adults, they will feel about him the way he does about his dad. He is digging his hole. They will grow up and leave and have little to do with him. He will suffer for it a lot more than they will.</p>

14

<p>FannyPack, it's hard to get perspective when you're living in an isolated place. You and DH need to go to counseling right away, probably together and separately.</p>

<p>Has dad stopped DD from learning to drive? In CA it's very unusual for kids not to learn at 16. Has he long tried to limit her and your ties to the outside world?</p>

15

<p>I hesitated to give so much detail, because even to me it seems like a lot of rambling in many directions.</p>

<p>It's just that I know that when I first approached the family about me going to college (I earned my degrees from an online program) he was the only one to have a problem with it. It took six months of he and I arguing about a whole lot of other trivial things before he finally confessed that his biggest issue was he was worried I'd get a degree, think he wasn't good enough for me, get a better job, and leave him. Once I assured him that wasn't my plan - he was okay with it and things at home settled down to a normal state. I think this situation may be the same, I just can't get him to come right out and say what the deep secret is this time - because he takes issue with everything BUT what is probably on his mind.</p>

<p>His family never talked about conflict, everyone just steams in silence and lets resentment build. You can see it when they all get together, it's all still there simmering under the surface. My family wasn't a whole lot better, mom slipped into a bottle of vodka at the first sign of conflict and dad just made sure he had plenty of out-of-town work to keep himself out of the line of fire.</p>

<p>I maintain the thought that there is a solution, but it may not be quick and easy. I appreciate all the comments from everyone, I actually feel a bit better already.</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

16

<p>Acknowledging a problem is the first step toward resolving it. Coming here with your story could be just what you need to get the confidence for seeking counseling. I remind you that few among us have perfect lives. Have confidence in yourself.</p>

17

<p>Dear FannyPack,</p>

<p>Take a deep breath. Lots of them. I'm not an expert, but it sounds to me like a classic case of miscommunication/noncommunication/poor communication between H & D. You are trying to be the peacemaker but are in an impossible situation. Since both you & H come from families with problems in the communication dept., you probably really need the help of a neutral third party professional. Everyone is interpreting the situation from his/her own perspective, and you are probably both afraid that you will end up losing your daughter (no longer speaking to her) as has been the case in both your families. Yet, at the same time, you know that you are acting in ways that may make this happen.</p>

<p>It seems to me that despite your own family problems, you have raised a wonderful D who seems to be thriving. So obviously you have done something right. Take pride in that. Your H is under stress and reacting to everything that D says in view of his own frame of reference inherited from his family. (Ie. fistfight with his father. Probably he and his father had been at each others' throats and it escalated to a breaking point. He & D seem to be on the same path, although the breaking point with a D won't be a fistfight.) On the other hand, your D is hypersensitive to anything either of you say. Even were the comments entirely non-accusatory or outright positive, she would probably hear criticism in them. And even when you are trying to be peacemaker, that is probably not how your D is hearing your efforts (nor your H for that matter). </p>

<p>If you can convince H to attend counseling with you, that would be ideal. But you should go yourself, if you can't convince him. All this strife, must be affecting your younger D. Please try to find a neutral third party to help all of you realize what your priorities really are, learn how to express what you really mean, and most importantly, try to learn how to really hear what the other is saying, not what you think they mean. </p>

<p>At the same time, take well-deserved pride in your D's accomplishments and commitment to work and community service. Reassure your husband that whatever hard times may come, that you will support him and have no intention of leaving him (probably his worst fear) in these stressful times.</p>

<p>Good luck to you, and take care of yourself. Take a deep breath, whenever you need to.</p>

18

<p>I just wanted to say that you're not alone. My DH has OCD and is obsessed with money. DD thinks she should be entitled to free access to our credit cards and should be able to spend the night with BF whenever she wants. In our case, both are to blame, and the end result is that she has not spent a night in our home since Thanksgiving. I am now struggling with whether to withdraw all support or just some, and when to do this. She obviously can't go to school without me paying tuition, but I think I'll probably have to cut off everything not directly related to her education. Of course, she is so stubborn that she will probably drop out as my "punishment" if I do that. It looks like a lose-lose situation whatever I do.</p>

19

<p>Wow, you have a lot going on in your life. I agree with the other posters who suggested family counseling. Looks like your husband is under a lot of stress with the horrible economy and job situation, and maybe he is taking some of that out on your daughter. If he won't go to counseling with you, go by yourself. There is time for both of you to work with a counselor before she comes home for spring break. Take care and good luck.</p>

20

<p>I think your husband is resentful of the $ being provided to D to go to college, and somewhat jealous of the experience his "ungrateful" D is getting that he did not. And controlling. Then the issues of an 18yo thinking they are an adult, and living their own life even while home under your roof.</p>

<p>Counseling is in order. Deep seated issues are present. Even if you are the only one that goes. You will be the one to benefit. Then set guidelines while D is home about when meals are served, when she is expected to be home for the night, and what hours you are available to take her to or from the station. This is a start. The counseling will help with individual issues. You need it to help not just now but for your future.</p>

<p>You can be proud of your D. But there are problems that need to be addressed.</p>