<p>I’m a mom. I’d go only to my daughter to ask; wouldn’t dream of contacting her steady after 2 months only to grill. </p>
<p>The only reason to press on down this list of questions would be if she answered “yes.” A “no” at any point would end the conversation and we’d move on to another topic. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>(Me to D): This boy you’ve mentioned, are you feeling it might have the potential to become serious someday? </p></li>
<li><p>Has he indicated to you it might become serious someday? </p></li>
<li><p>If you were to become involved with his life and future, do you know if he has a fallback plan in case his business tanks?</p></li>
<li><p>Do you want me to meet him, to get to know him better?</p></li>
<li><p>Good. Who’s paying for dinner?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>JHS - there’s no fun in being a Jewish girl if you don’t bring home someone who isn’t Jewish (half-Jewish? which side?) every now and then, to upset the apple cart. It’s a rite of passage!</p>
<p>It seems as if there really might be a “cultural factor” here.</p>
<p>My youngest is currently dating a high school dropout, actually…and is a high school drop-out herself (her siblings were at Ivies and she got her GED; most of her friends are quirky, interesting kids who left school to pursue some kind of “passion” in the arts, at this early date, I have no idea what will happen to any of them).</p>
<p>My son works in the computer industry and after a summer internship, was offered a great job, a year before graduation. He chose to finish school, but his girlfriend would have been fine with it if he had taken the job, and so would her family.</p>
<p>It takes all kinds in this world. I respect the aspirations people have for their kids, and the discomfort some may feel with any variation from the path, but those values do not have to be taken on by the OP.</p>
<p>Often economic insecurity is at the root of these things, and in these hard times, I respect that too. But students in their late teens and twenties often have to do a little wandering to get where they are supposed to be.</p>
<p>You (the OP) should feel good about this opportunity, if this is what you want to do, and please don’t let anyone else make you feel badly. It is good to realize that all kinds of people have all kinds of values, and it is absolutely no reflection on you or your choices.</p>
<p>I think the OP missed a bullet with this girl calling it quits. Whether it’s because Daddy doesn’t approve, or because she has doubts herself, be glad you’re free. He/she sounds far too controlling.</p>
<p>But then I married a college drop-out, so I’m biased. He did eventually go back to college, finished at the top of his class and received a full fellowship for grad school. So you never know.</p>
<p>blossom: Either directly or on a second-hand basis through my children, I know a number of young women from the subgroups you mention, at least the sorts of young women from those subgroups who attend Ivy-type colleges. I stand by my earlier characterization. Notwithstanding that what you describe may be the “social norm” for the subgroup as a whole, it will not be the norm for women from the subgroup at Penn, or Brown, or anyplace remotely similar.</p>
<p>Of course not all Jewish communities behave like a Woody Allen movie or a Philip Roth novel. Both, I believe, were second-generation Polish Ashkenazi growing up in a community that was pretty orthodox by today’s standards, by the way. But as far as stuff like this is concerned, you are not going to get much of a different idea from Isaac Bashevis Singer, Chaim Potok, Bernard Malamud, Sholom Aleichem, Henry Roth, Allegra Goodman, Nathan Englander . . . (I’m short on Iraqi or Syrian sources.)</p>
<p>OP: You talk about leaving college to run this company. However, you also discuss wanting to transfer. Why do you wish to transfer and do you have transfer apps in progress?</p>
<p>Continuing the tangent a little bit here…do you all think that your kids are not affected by your approval/disapproval of their romantic choices?</p>
<p>My kids range in age from 16 to 21. Prime dating time for all.
1 of my 3 kids would maybe seek to know our views on a potential partner. The other two would be -on the surface- much more defensive and hostile to the notion that we might even have an opinion, but at the same time, if they got a clue that our opinion was negative, they would, I think, look a bit askance at the pp. It seems like a complicated dance…in which we try to think only good things about the young men and women our children date, and they try not to ask or at least outwardly, care, what we think of them (except for the one who’s much more OK with asking for our advice in general). I think it will all work out for the best in the end, and it pays not to have strong opinions while the battle yet continues on the field. It’s kind of a delicate thing - I hope my kids do care about what I think of their choices, and I want to help them realize good guidelines for a happy future, but I don’t want to substitute my judgement for theirs (hey, I already had my crack at this; now it’s their turn). </p>
<p>Back to the original romantic pair - maybe there’s more to the story than the (obviously) aggressive father - maybe the girl has doubts aside from the dropping out angle or is just not all that into the guy… As for the OP - good luck. Lots more fish in the sea, and all that.</p>
<p>My older daughter and I are very close. She’ll usually tell me how she feels about a guy before she tells her girlfriends, often it’sbecause she knows I wouldn’t tell. I know if I were ever come out to say I didn’t like a guy, she probably would stop seeing him. To date, I have kept my mouth shut. I know this veto power I would only probably have one, max two shots at it. I would save it for later, not while she is dating. She has been making some good choices in her life…</p>
<p>I would have an issue with her marrying a guy who is a college drop out, wouldn’t care if he was an Ivy drop out and making millions. If you are good you could always make that money later, you don’t need to drop out of school.</p>
<p>I got hired after a year in college and worked a few jobs, started a company with a partner and finished my degrees later in life. The Ivy school wouldn’t be a factor. Someone is trusting you with a few million so you’ve already been vetted.</p>
<p>I’d say just be yourself when meeting the dad or chatting with him.</p>
<p>I strongly disagree. Some opportunities are once in a lifetime.</p>
<p>IBM needed Bill Gates at a particular point in time to develop a product. They probably would have gotten the work done elsewhere if he weren’t available. If my son wanted to work and had to drop out to do so, I’d certainly support him.</p>
<p>One-third of the Forbes 400 (from a 2003 report) don’t have college degrees. There are a lot of people out there doing just fine without a degree.</p>
<p>I too was confused by the OPs remark about transfering.</p>
<p>An opportunity to be in on the ground floor of a start-up doesn’t come along that often, Amazon and MicroSoft come to mind. The earlier you get in the richer you’ll retire and you can always finish your degree later.</p>
<p>JHS - i don’t agree. based on my knowledge of nice Jewish girls at Ivies – what can I say?they’re not as spunky as those U of C chicks… as for your list of writers, the only woman on that list happens to have been the very model of Orthodox Jewish good girl during her time at an Ivy. Take my word for it. Is Nathan Englander married? Maybe you’re thinking of Shalom Auslander - in the end, for all the agonizing, he did agree to that bris, though. Chaim Potok - does he have any non-Jewish grandchildren? I don’t think so. As for the rest, you’re back in the age of the dinosaurs.</p>
<p>Wow, I’m wondering if the girl is dating the friend of my son’s who left MIT and started his own highly successful company… </p>
<p>I certainly would be just fine with the situation. (In fact, I married the guy… my husband dropped out of college, started his own company, and has been phenomenally successful.) Anyone who can talk a vulture capitalist out of money in this economic climate will go very far.</p>
<p>memake, are you suggesting that Jewish girls have gotten more obedient since the age of the dinosaurs? Old-country Jewish-girl culture wasn’t so darn compliant. It was supposed to be, but it wasn’t really.</p>
<p>Someone can be the very model of an Orthodox Jewish good girl, and still not defer to (or inform) her father in everything. I am not suggesting that Orthodox girls go “bad” in the Ivies; just that they exercise independent judgment. An important distinction.</p>
<p>I’m with other posters who had a problem with “let” as the word here. But that said, because of our family history (my ex-husband and I and my parents all dropped out of college to get married and start families, to our detriment and the detriment of our children), I tend to be very twitchy about the possibility that one of my children would date someone who didn’t support their plan to stay in college and get a degree. </p>
<p>This unhappiness would manifest itself not in “letting” the child date or not, but in constantly haranguing about it, using my Mad Parental Skilllz ™ in giving guilt and withholding approval. I am not a “if you love him/her, I love him/her” parent – I am a “I know you love him/her, but I find her annoying/insufferable/detrimental/damaging, and I’m going to point that out every time the subject comes up.” Once again, I’m a terrible parent. :-)</p>
<p>JHS- no, I think I’m suggesting that all that overheated Ivy admissions competition has created a generation of ever-so-slightly-less-spunky Ivy admittees. </p>
<p>As to not necessarily informing one’s father of everything - discretion can indeed be the better part of valor! The parental corollary to that might be, (to quote a long-ago mom-friend from the playground years) “When you have children, you have to learn to daven good.” I’m aware that the theological basis for that thought is not universally appreciated, but I’m in awe of the wisdom of it – it’s a baby step towards learning that much about the eventual outcome is not in your control.</p>
<p>I think forbidding fruit makes it well, forbidden fruit, and all the more tempting. Absent a situation where the guy was abusive or some-such, I think more harm than good is done by trying to control the situation.</p>
He did eventually go back to college, finished at the top of his class and received a full fellowship for grad school. So you never know.</p>