<p>Insane? Nuts? I prefer “mad”, thank you very much. </p>
<p>LukeC, Part of the problem lies with the fact that people have their own definitions. “Support” in Family A looks like “pushing” to Family B while Family C thinks neither A or B are taking enough interest in their children’s education.</p>
<p>Interesting thread.You should take a look at the one in Parents’ Cafe on “How much do you push your child?.” If we didn’t, our kid would sit on the couch all day watching TV, playing video games, etc. He’s bright and does more than that (also accomplished athlete) BECAUSE we keep the bar high. If he wants to screw up later in life that’s his choice, but not on our watch.</p>
<p>Dr. Horse, you’re much too young to make a rational statement about this. So I’ll chalk it off to adolescent ignorance. </p>
<p>Try this on for size. You have smart kids, involved in about a zillion extracurriculars, and you want to maximize what college funds you’ve squirreled away (of which a good bit has been eaten away by the market meltdown) into good value for your kids’ higher education.</p>
<p>Because of these extracurriculars, which they are NOT forced to do by the way, there is precious little time for them to do the big-picture school-by-school analysis necessary to get that kind of investment return, which is choosing the best school, the best fit, for the best price. And the high school career counselor is saddled with hundreds of students at a time, so there’s little if any help there.</p>
<p>So as parents, we help with the research, along with the kid. And get this–trying to decipher what’s in a 17-year-old’s mind about future plans–forget about it. It’s like trying to catch the wind. You’ll find out soon enough, Horse, if you have kids. This means we use our paintbrush in broadstrokes, not wanting to scare the kid into a corner. Our mantra has been…leave your options open as much as you can. Use the May 1 ‘drop-dead’ date to your advantage.</p>
<p>That being said, we advise by setting deadlines, telling them to '‘plan accordingly, you have this app to get in by this date, this essay or audition piece by then.’ Sometimes they think ahead & do fine. Oft times they don’t, and mostly it’s just a function of bad time management. But that’s their responsibility & occasional hard life lesson.</p>
<p>But the whole process (and I’ve done it twice now) is more importantly a common thread of discussion, as long as the dialogue doesn’t get too heated too often. But in a time when teenagers become increasingly uncommunicative, this keeps the communication going. It’s an overall positive experience for everyone, handled in the right way. And it’s the kid’s first experience with the real world decision-making process based on money and value assessment.</p>
<p>Giddyup, Dr. Horse.</p>
<p>Dr. Horse, please come back here when you have one or two kids in high school. I’d be more than happy to discuss the parent perspective with you when you are a parent.</p>
<p>Amazing how the most perfect parents are the ones who don’t have children. </p>
<p>You can tell it’s Christmas Break - the “Parents Go Away” threads are becoming much more frequent. Sigh . . .</p>
<p>Re the above post- you can also tell … by the parents seeking an outlet away from their offspring… CC is good as an avenue to be intense, explore options, etc without getting on your kid’s back. Nice parental networking about our kids and other subjects.</p>
<p>I for one really appreciate Dr. Horse’s post, because as a fairly casual CC user, I have learned how much I have in common with most all of the rest of you through your responses.</p>
<p>By the way, just for the record, my parents tried the Dr. Horse approach to not forbidding things with the expectation that their son wouldn’t do them. I can tell you that at least in my parents’ case that did not work quite as well as they would have expected. </p>
<p>I love my parents dearly, but I would respect them so much more today if they had taken more of an active role in my development and future, as so many of you are doing with your children and as I too am doing with mine.</p>
<p>My daughters have had far more success to this point in their young lives than I did at their age, and have far more potential than I ever had. However, like their father 30 years ago, they too need some active involvement on their parents’ part to help them get the most of it. </p>
<p>As I see it, it is my job as a parent to strike that balance of supporting and guiding them, without pushing too hard or expecting them to be something they are not capable of or that is not right for them.</p>
<p>However, I should probably take Dr. Horse’s advice when it comes to my kids as far as texting and TV are concerned, because I am obviously driving them to do more of this.</p>
<p>I was just reading some other posts in this and other forums. In many of the posts parents are very upset because their kids want to go to a state school instead of an IVY or Liberal Arts of the parents choice. Or freaking out because although their kids are taking AP classes they only have a 3.8!!! (oh no)<br>
This is what I think Dr. Horse is referring to when he says everyone is nuts. </p>
<p>It is a pretty well known fact that most college freshman go a little nuts with their new found freedoms when they go off to college. This happens at EVERY school. It is pretty much a consensus that the kids that seem to go way overboard for way too long are for the most part the kids who have not had “experiences” with these things in high school.
Again, I think that Dr. Horse was trying to refer to this when he said that kid from parents that are to strict are the ones that wind up in the most trouble. </p>
<p>I do not by any means think that Mr. Horse’s mother was right to tell her son to go have sex with lots of people, if indeed that is what she did but again, he may have been exaggerating in an attempt to drive home the point that parents are too strict usually wind up with wild children once those kids get a taste of freedom.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Links to such posts, please. Thanks.</p>
<p>Nevermind.</p>
<p>DADOFTWO SAID:
As I see it, it is my job as a parent to strike that balance of supporting and guiding them, without pushing too hard or expecting them to be something they are not capable of or that is not right for them.</p>
<p>And I agree–striking the balance is the point here.
I think that maybe Dr. Horse was kind of trying to say that–holding too much cord in high school just causes rebellion—
but what he did not seem to believe was that letting go of too much cord just causes running wild. </p>
<p>I think Dr. Horse just sees the over-parent involvement in some of these forums (as I stated above) and he was trying to comment on that but got carried away and went to far the other way.</p>
<p>"In many of the posts parents are very upset because their kids want to go to a state school instead of an IVY or Liberal Arts of the parents choice. Or freaking out because although their kids are taking AP classes they only have a 3.8!!! </p>
<p>Links to such posts, please. Thanks."</p>
<p>Yeah…</p>
<p>and this one…</p>
<p>“It is pretty much a consensus that the kids that seem to go way overboard for way too long are for the most part the kids who have not had “experiences” with these things in high school.”</p>
<p>The consensus of whom? Is there my scientific data to support this, or the opposite? I ask because this parenting thing is harder than it looks, especially in the grey areas. Fortunately most of us have come to this point with enough “chops” to take forum criticism from teens with a grain of salt, but it certainly makes me think about grey areas.</p>
<p>Like how long to let babies cry… whether to let a baby in a diaper “feel wet”… How much choice a toddler should have over when and what to eat… should elementary students wear “inappropriate” (not warm enough, too seductive) clothing… music, TV, and video game choices for the middle schoolers, truancy and sleeping schedules for high schoolers …choosing not to work and living at home after graduation… and I do this for a living!</p>
<p>Doctor? Are you there?</p>
<p>In many of the posts parents are very upset because their kids want to go to a state school instead of an IVY or Liberal Arts of the parents choice. Or freaking out because although their kids are taking AP classes they only have a 3.8!!!</p>
<p>I am not going back and looking at posts for you but if you read around you will find it. I have been on this board for months now and I have seen that sentiment expressed over and over.
Not by everyone but by many people. Go read the B student forum and you will see that many people say they feel the same way about alot of posts -although this is not said in the same words.</p>
<p>The consensus of whom? Is there my scientific data to support this, or the opposite? I ask because this parenting thing is harder than it looks, especially in the grey areas. Fortunately most of us have come to this point with enough “chops” to take forum criticism from teens with a grain of salt, but it certainly makes me think about grey areas.</p>
<p>The consensus of me and many people like me with alot of world experience. I grew up in a very dysfunctional family and was a bit wild in my hayday. However by the time I was 21 I had moved on and was getting my act together. I witnessed many “good–protected” kids in my high school class go overboard crazy when they went off to college. I have witnessed the same as the years have gone by-and see it now with my son’s class.
Many people I know–yes, professional people say the same.</p>
<p>This DOES NOT mean I advocate you letting your teen run wild in high school by any stretch of the imagination. Only that you practice balance in supporting and guiding them as dad of two suggested.</p>
<p>The thing that would scare me most is if my parents called me an “S2” in forum posts or used two-letter acronyms to refer to our relatives. </p>
<p>I think Dr. Horse has a point about excessive whipcracking, but don’t really jive with the whole “meant to succeed” or “born smart” thing–sounds really Calvinist to me. Then again, I think if you really want something and are willing to work for it, you’ll get it.</p>
<p>“I witnessed many “good–protected” kids in my high school class go overboard crazy when they went off to college. I have witnessed the same as the years have gone by-and see it now with my son’s class.
Many people I know–yes, professional people say the same.”</p>
<p>Nikki, I don’t mean to put you on the spot. I DO feel better knowing that you are an adult, so I feel it’s okay to push a little. What you have described so far seems anecdotal. The extremes are obvious. Most parents can agree on these. The “devil is in the details”. I can’t seem to find much in the way of literature to suggest there is a defined amount of “protection” that places kids at risk. For example I have read that kids who experiment with alcohol in middle school are at greater risk for substance abuse. Are you suggesting kids with alchohol “experience” are a group at lower risk? I have also been taught that low rates of parental supervision is associated with higher rates of “conduct diisorder”. Is that not true?</p>
<p>Just like there are a few outrageous kids who hang out here, there are a few outrageous parents. It could even be that the outrageous folk are more likely to post than us “regular” folk who just lurk, and maybe post here in the parents section.That is until a provocative post pops up, and it’s too hard to resist. It’s hard to listen to the rest after someone says “you people are insane”.</p>
<p>PS I am the first to admit I feel a little “crazy” spending as much time as I do here, and having more than 2k posts…</p>
<p>*The thing that would scare me most is if my parents called me an “S2” in forum posts or used two-letter acronyms to refer to our relatives. *</p>
<p>Which name would you prefer?</p>
<p>Then again, I think if you really want something and are willing to work for it, you’ll get it.</p>
<p>It is certainly easier to think that things going well rest with the individual, that way we can be assured that if things go badly, it is * their own fault* and could have been prevented.</p>
<p>However- life is not so simple. Part hard work yes, but also luck and making use of resources which includes using whatcha got at hand. THis is where wisdom of elders can come in, because youth may not recognize opportunities if they have not seen them before.</p>
<p>But what the Kondratieff wave is about is a study of long cycles of debt buildup and repudiation. It is not exclusively about price inflation and deflation periods. Deflation is caused in part by the debt collapse. It is also a generational thing as the next cycle of debt buildup and collapse is renewed every 2-3 generations as the previous generation that went through comparable periods dies off. The old adage that “this time it is different” means the circumstances are different, yes, but they fail to recognize that the previous period was the same in terms of excesses and therefore the end result is the same.</p>
<p>[Kondratieff</a> Long Wave Cycles Past and Present](<a href=“http://www.kwaves.com/kond_overview.htm]Kondratieff”>http://www.kwaves.com/kond_overview.htm)</p>
<p>How many teenagers today have been told stories by their relatives firsthand about life during the depression? Even many that are in their 40s and 50s could have benefited from the financial perspective of those that lived through that era.</p>
<p>Hi Shrink:
I can only answer your questions based on my experiences. Do I think that the kids who experimented with alcohol and drugs in Jr High are at a greater risk–absolutely. But JR high is not the time that parents should be cutting the cord so to speak.<br>
When my son was entering JR high the principal told us in the parents meeting that many parents seemed to think that just because their kid was moving on to JR high they were “grown up” and hence no longer participated in the kids life as much. This IS evident by the numbers of parent volunteers in JR high versus elementary schools.<br>
I personnally do not believe that JR high is the time to stop watching them with a close eye.<br>
In JR high I was absolutely on top of where my son was going, with whom, if party’s were supervised, etc…</p>
<p>As the years went by I tried to start backing off some each year. My son and I have always had an open relationship and we talked about everything. I am not so naive as to think he did not keep secrets from me but we did talk pretty openly about alcohol and drugs. My son went to a very good, high graduation rate school that has a high percentage of kids going to college. The parents who want to believe that alcohol and drugs are not everywhere are doing nothing but kidding themselves. The parents who know that this stuff is everywhere and so try to isolate their kids by restricting them so much are doing their kids no favors.
If a senior in high school has such tight restrictions on them exactly what do you think they are going to do the next year when they are 1000 miles away from mom and dad and can do anything and everything they always wanted to do but couldn’t.<br>
From what I have seen, yes, the kids who have been so tightly controlled in high school, who have never had a drink are basically the ones who lose control for at least a while.
Does that mean every kid that was restricted will go wild–no. Does that mean every kid who partied in high school will not lost control–no. Just a generalization. </p>
<p>Again–that does not mean we should let our high school kids run amuck and party until the cows come home. But I believe we should at least let them experience the world a little and yes, pay for the mistakes they make accordingly.</p>
<p>I think you’ve hit a nerve Dr. Horse. </p>
<p>No wait! I take that back… I’m sure you’ve hit a nerve.</p>